Couple of questions about track gearing | Page 2 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Couple of questions about track gearing

reciprocity said:
...With a large displacement bike like yours, it sometimes works well to essentially run it like a 5 speed(avoiding 1st gear)...
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RobVN said:
Some good advice here. What recip says is quite true. You want to stay out of 1st gear in the corners. I have the same bike as you corsara and been using -1/+2 and been happy with it at TMP. I'm usually in yellow and I'm out to have fun. ...
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With the -1/0 this summer at TMP I never had to use 1st gear. I'd go up from 2nd to 4th on the straight and not even redline it, then drop to 3rd for the turn 1, after which I'd redline 3rd by turn 2, where I drop to 2nd for the rest of the track. With the -1/+3 I anticipate redlining 4th on the straight, maybe even pop in 5th for the last bit, then down to 3rd for Turn 1 and up to 4th for a bit for the second straight, then 2nd all the way (maybe go in 3rd for a bit between turns 7 and 10, don't know). With my -1/0 setup I ran in Yellow at my last track day and my best lap was 1:24s, but I'm very new and that was my first season at the track. We'll see how the -1/+3 and reduced unsprung weight will work out for me next season, I guess my biggest concern is getting better with the blip and downshift under braking and the lack of slipper clutch on my bike :(
 
If your going to do a lot of track riding (which it sounds like it), it's a good idea to spend a little more with the local shops and establish a relationship with them. Your going to need parts/tires/help at some point so the extra few $$ spent now really goes a long way when it comes to getting more down the road. You may end up getting better deals later when you spend enough money to show your a good customer, especially if you plan on racing in the future.
 
dricked said:
If your going to do a lot of track riding (which it sounds like it), it's a good idea to spend a little more with the local shops and establish a relationship with them. Your going to need parts/tires/help at some point so the extra few $$ spent now really goes a long way when it comes to getting more down the road. You may end up getting better deals later when you spend enough money to show your a good customer, especially if you plan on racing in the future.
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Duly noted.
 
Both my previous track bikes are over 170whp and my current 1000 is over 190whp. Neither of them stretched the ERV3 chain at all in several years.

Really - don't get the MVXZ chain. I had one on my street 1000 and it stretched constantly, very disappointing as I also got pulled in by RK's claims. Forget what the tensile strengths are listed at, etc. etc. because frankly it's all marketing B.S. What matters is how the chains hold up under hard use. Look around the pro and amateur racer paddocks at the 750s and 1000s and you'll find DID ERV3 chains on practically all of them (ok maybe not some of the amateurs, as they tend to be cheap cheap).

You probably don't know it but several people on this thread answering you are accomplished amateur and pro racers...
 
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Well this truly sucks because my MVXZ chain is in the mail now, the mummy place put it in the mail within the hour of placing the order.... i should have listened, especially because I did have the knowledge that some of the replies come from accomplished racers.. :|

EDIT: Just called them, the order is really truly in the mail...oh well
 
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Corsara said:
Well this truly sucks because my MVXZ chain is in the mail now, the mummy place put it in the mail within the hour of placing the order.... i should have listened, especially because I did have the knowledge that some of the replies come from accomplished racers.. :|
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Did you get their "stretch protection" option? If so it might be OK (I have no experience to back this) but their standard MVXZ will stretch like a mfkr on a 1000.
 
Shaman said:
Did you get their "stretch protection" option? If so it might be OK (I have no experience to back this) but their standard MVXZ will stretch like a mfkr on a 1000.
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My guess is that you're joking with the "stretch protection", but yeah, nothing i can do now, will use it up and change to a better one, hope it lasts for the season.
 
Corsara said:
My guess is that you're joking with the "stretch protection", but yeah, nothing i can do now, will use it up and change to a better one, hope it lasts for the season.
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I'm actually not, but I was thinking of the RK chains. The E.K. doesn't have that "feature" available. I'm too lazy to see if RK has changed it's products right now... :lmao:

EDIT: curiousity got me... looks like RK has indeed changed their product lines with RX and XW type chains being their "current thing":

http://www.motorcyclegear.com/info_pages/rk_chain_technical_info.html

So... yeah, it's a brave new world!
 
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Shaman said:
I'm actually not, but I was thinking of the RK chains. The E.K. doesn't have that "feature" available. I'm too lazy to see if RK has changed it's products right now... :lmao:

EDIT: curiousity got me... looks like RK has indeed changed their product lines with RX and XW type chains being their "current thing":

http://www.motorcyclegear.com/info_pages/rk_chain_technical_info.html

So... yeah, it's a brave new world!
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EK's ZST (zero stretch tech) is real and it works.
I put over 70,000 kms on a GSXR1000 with an EK-530ZZZ, much of that was towing a trailer behind the GSXR, and only adjusted the chain twice ever. The EK is the best chain that I have ever used. Before that I was a DID guy, but not anymore.
My R6 and Fireblade racebikes have EK ZZZ chains with ZST and never adjusted either of them yet.
As far as I know ZST is the same on their MVXZ as well. I installed an orange MVXZ on my KTM last yr and never have adjusted it in just over 11,000 kms, again much of it was towing the trailer. However, the KTM has so much suspension travel, the chain is run much looser than typical of most sportbikes.
 
omnivore said:
EK's ZST (zero stretch tech) is real and it works.
I put over 70,000 kms on a GSXR1000 with an EK-530ZZZ, much of that was towing a trailer behind the GSXR, and only adjusted the chain twice ever. The EK is the best chain that I have ever used. Before that I was a DID guy, but not anymore.
My R6 and Fireblade racebikes have EK ZZZ chains with ZST and never adjusted either of them yet.
As far as I know ZST is the same on their MVXZ as well. I installed an orange MVXZ on my KTM last yr and never have adjusted it in just over 11,000 kms, again much of it was towing the trailer. However, the KTM has so much suspension travel, the chain is run much looser than typical of most sportbikes.
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Thanks. We'll see how my MVXZ will hold up, I'll report back on that in 10 months after hopefully many track days.

However, in your reply you mention your race bikes with EK ZZZ, which apparently is a very superior chain. They don't mention ZST for the MVXZ chains though... (source: http://www.ekchain.jp/product/street_bikes.html).
 
See how it works. Maybe it'll be just fine. You're doing track with it anyways so it's a maintenance item.

If it stretches a bit, most modern bikes don't steer poorly when you extend the wheelbase back to tighten the chain slack as the swingarms are on an angle. Some turn more sharply.
 
While we're on this topic, how much slack is there supposed to be on a race/track bike?
Considerably more than a street bike or more or less the same?

I was told that the chain needs to have a bit more slack to allow the suspension to work properly...
Thoughts?
 
Go with the upper bound of what the bike manufacturer specifies. Check it with the suspension completely unloaded and with your normal weight on the bike - it can change, depending on the alignment of the swingarm pivot and the sprockets. A little loose is better than a little tight.
 
Brian P said:
Go with the upper bound of what the bike manufacturer specifies. Check it with the suspension completely unloaded and with your normal weight on the bike - it can change, depending on the alignment of the swingarm pivot and the sprockets. A little loose is better than a little tight.
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Upper bound meaning the larger value? E.g., in 10-30mm, the upper bound would be the 30mm, right?

Also, "completely unloaded" meaning the bike resting on its side stand with two wheels on the ground, or pivoting the bike on the side stand with the wheels off the ground?
 
I usually make mine just touch the bottom of the guide on the swingarm when pushing up on the chain with it on the rear stand, I think it's close to the manufacturers specs.
 
dricked said:
I usually make mine just touch the bottom of the guide on the swingarm when pushing up on the chain with it on the rear stand, I think it's close to the manufacturers specs.
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That's pretty much what I've been doing too, although it has always baffled me if I should be pushing with pressure or just lifting up and down to measure. If I exercise more pressure on the chain with my hand when pushing it up and down to measure, I noticed I could easily add 10-20 mm more to the measurement.. Can anybody comment on that?
 
Corsara said:
Upper bound meaning the larger value? E.g., in 10-30mm, the upper bound would be the 30mm, right?
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Yes

Corsara said:
Also, "completely unloaded" meaning the bike resting on its side stand with two wheels on the ground, or pivoting the bike on the side stand with the wheels off the ground?
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Race bikes don't have side stands. "Completely unloaded" means at the top of the suspension travel. How you achieve that, is up to you. After you have done it once, you will know whether completely unloaded or rider-aboard is the limiting case (tightest chain) and you can then translate how much slack you need at the easy-to-measure condition (sitting on the rear stand naturally) in order to achieve enough slack in the limiting case.
 
Brian P said:
Race bikes don't have side stands. "Completely unloaded" means at the top of the suspension travel. How you achieve that, is up to you. After you have done it once, you will know whether completely unloaded or rider-aboard is the limiting case (tightest chain) and you can then translate how much slack you need at the easy-to-measure condition (sitting on the rear stand naturally) in order to achieve enough slack in the limiting case.
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I was afraid it would be so complicated. I guess it's way too early for me to strive for such perfection. Maybe/hopefully one day though!

Thanks for the reply.
 
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