Reveiw Canway Motorsports & Andrew Bell - Watch your back!

I bought a used SV650 from Andrew bell at Canway Motorsports in March 2012 and recommend anyone else stay away from them.

This was my first real bike buy, so I put a lot of faith in Andrew that the bike was in good order. Especially after he told me that by buying through a dealer i was protected because they are governed by the OMVIC. I specifically asked him to have his mechanic check the entire bike to make sure everything was in good order and to clean the bike because when he first showed it to me, it was filthy (which he agreed to do). It seems that faith was misplaced.

What I Got:
- A still filthy bike
- An air filter that should have been changed at least 5,000 km ago
- An air box filled with about 12 acorns and a whole lot of rodent pellets
- A sticky throttle that needs to twisted closed or it stays open
- A rear chain that was stretched to the point where it could no longer be adjusted, had kinks in it and was showing rust in several areas
- A rear sprocket that was so worn, within a month, the chain was skipping teeth when I accelerated
- Regular lights instead of the HIDs that his ad had said were in the bike

My SV is also supposed to be a 2005 model, but in 2005 the frames were black powder coated and mine is silver (like all models before 2005) even though the serial number seems to indicate a 2005.

When I complained about the unsafe sprocket, he gave me another (salvaged) but refused to even install it. He has also refused any other help or repairs. Overall, after the cost of the bike and 2 months ownership, I am out around $350 for the sprocket install and new chain, another $70 for the air filter, will need another $200 or so to install the HIDs that the bike was supposed to have, and had to spend an entire day cleaning the bike myself. No idea what other surprises are coming. This is no way to run a dealership.

Based on my experience, at best Andrew Bell and Canway Motorsports are careless and do not know enough about bikes to be in the business. At worst, they are deliberately scamming clients and making a few extra bucks everywhere they can get away with to the point of selling unsafe bikes. I strongly recommend that you do not buy from them.

I'm pretty sure I've heard of these guys somewhere before... and almost positive I've viewed their (sad excuse for a) website before.

I particularly enjoy the ad for the 2010 Ninja 250R SE, where they claim there are only a few "tiny scratches" that are "hardly worth mentioning"...
http://www.canwaymotorsports.com/2011/04/2010-kawasaki-ninja-250r.html

Take a look at the photo of the right side of the bike. Notice the sticker where the upper front fairing and right-side fairing join -- likely covering cracks. And the area around the front right-side turn signal: it's all cracked, and obviously has been repaired in some manner. Bike's been down and probably has other damage they've hidden.

Personally, I would never buy anything from that dealer just based on their shoddy website -- hope you can get things sorted out with these guys, but sounds like you'll need to get the OMVIC/other authority involved.

Thanks TekNinja81, you're probably right about having to get the OMVIC involved. Will probably do a BBB review of em too. I don't know whether there is much chance of getting compensated for any of this, but I definitely do not want these guys screwing over any fellow riders.

Just in case anyone is wondering whether this is a legit complaint, here are some images of the worn sprocket and most of the stuff that was in the airbox (i kicked some of the acorns away from my parking spot's tire track before taking the pic).

Did You not look at the bike before you bought it? If you say it was
- A still filthy bike
A sticky throttle that needs to twisted closed or it stays open
- A rear chain that was stretched to the point where it could no longer be adjusted, had kinks in it and was showing rust in several areas
- A rear sprocket that was so worn, within a month, the chain was skipping teeth when I accelerated
why did you take the bike? You must have liked it for you to buy it NO ?

Here’s the real story.

For starters the buyer is trying to garner some sympathy by saying this was his first bike, he traded in a bike with over 8000kms. When the customer purchased the bike we had it inspected and included a free oil / filter change. The chain was also adjusted at this time with lots of room left to be adjusted, not stretched out beyond use as the buyer suggested. I even included a brand new battery since the old one was a little weak and I didn’t want the buyer to have any issues. Within a very short time the buyer had called me to say he believed the sprocket had excessive wear. As a good will gesture I offered to replace the sprocket with a good used providing he would take care of the install, the buyer agreed to this resolution without hesitation. Never did I refuse to install it. This is a flat out lie. The sprocket I obtained for the buyer came off a bike with very low km’s, real sharp sprocket. Not salvage bike like the buyer claims, it was from a bike that had a chain conversion kit swapped in. After this point I was under the impression the buyer was happy as he made contact with me asking him to help him out with sourcing aftermarket parts at my cost, which I did with no monetary benefit to the company. Then months after purchase the buyer came by my dealership and said he replaced the chain and ordered a new filter. He claimed the chain was very rusty but when reviewing high resolution photos I have I could not see the rust. I asked him if he replaced the filter, he said that he had ordered one but had not actually replaced it. The buyer should have brought any issues or concerns he had to my attention, we are always here for our buyers. Instead the buyer chose to go out and spend money before consulting with me and asking me to fix the situation after the fact.

The bottom line is this; if I were “deliberately scamming customers and making a few extra bucks” would I have put a new battery in the bike when the old one still started the bike? Why would I have replaced the sprocket for you after the sale was already made?

I ask the community to take the original posters rant with a grain of salt. Everyone in business knows for every 100 satisfied customers there is always 1 you just cant please. This gentleman appears to be one of those. We always operate in good faith and the buyer has clearly exaggerated the situation. Attached are pictures of the bike when it was in our possession. How dirty does it look to you? Attached are pictures of the chain, how rusty does it look to you?

I trust the readers can draw their own conclusions here. Just wanted to add our side and get back to work.

All fair questions Rich6969,
1- I specifically asked him to clean the bike before delivering it to me and he said yes. I assumed it was a done deal.
2- He said test driving it was against policies before buying and when I didn't like that much, he assured me that because dealers are regulated, I had nothing to fear.
3- I had never done maintenance on a chain before and didn't even know what the adjustment indicators on the swingarm were
4- I mentioned the sprocket looked worn and he said his mechanic had checked it and said it was safe. Again, I had never done maintenance and had no reason at that time to say otherwise

Since the purchase I have been involved with, or done every bit of maintenance on the bike myself and have read a lot about how most major systems work. Knowing what I know now, I'd have run not walked out of that dealership, but not everyone knows this stuff early on in their riding career.

To answer your last question, sure I liked the bike and still do. The color, sound, styling and (maintenance issues aside) how it handles are all great. I just got screwed by what seems to be a dealer cutting corners (sometimes dangerously) that ended up adding over $500 to the cost of ownership within the first 2 months. I'm just sharing the experience so it might help a fellow rider avoid the same problem. Take it how you will.

Hello Andrew,

Thanks for being a part of the conversation.
I apologize if the way that I said some of my points gave the wrong impression:
1- I did not mean to imply that the replacement sprocket was damaged or unsafe in any way. By salvage, I meant used and perhaps that is the wrong term. I confirm as you have said that the replacement sprocket was in good shape and have no complaints about that part.

2- I should have phrased it as "did not want to install it" in reference to the replacement sprocket rather than "refused to". That would have been more clear. I did not want to make a big deal about it at the time and you are correct that I did not push you to install it yourself.

3- Perhaps I jumped to conclusions about you trying to shave costs wherever you could. I do recall the battery looking pretty new when I got the bike so I will take your word that you put that in on your own. I don't give you credit for the oil change though because I negotiated that as a condition of the purchase, you did not volunteer it yourself.

Now about the biger points that we don't quite agree upon (I won't waste time on the small things like cleaning):
1- Your ad said it had HIDs, the bike has none. As a dealer who knows his business and inspects the bikes he sells, should you not have checked this? Balasts are not hard to see if you know what you are looking for. The excuse you gave me was that the guy who sold it to you said they were in there, but is it not your job as a dealer to know what you are selling your clients and represent that honestly in your ads? (please do not say you never listed HIDs and make me pull out the copy I have of your ad).

2- If within the first month or so of ownership, my sprocket looked like the picture above and was jumping teeth under 1/3 throttle starts, should your "safety inspection" not have caught that and changed it out before selling it to me? Instead you handed me a replacement sprocket as an "act of good faith" afterwards, but only after I complained. What if the chain had jumped the sprocket entirely, gotten caught in my wheel and locked it while I was on the highway?

3- When I inspected it prior to the replacement, the chain was on the last adjuster notch (aka stretched to its maximum), there was red rust showing around a number of the o-rings and it was making kinks when at rest instead of resting in smooth arc. I am far from a chain expert, but am told (and have read) that this means a chain is done. Am I misinformed on this?

Because it's a relatively cheap and quick fix, I won't even get into the "performance enhancing acorns" and air filter.

As for "being there for our buyers" when I came to you this past weekend. Did you propose anything that would help the situation, like even offering to find me an air filter at dealer price? No, instead you gave me excuse after excuse about why none of this was your responsibility and said there was nothing you could do. I never said "pay for my entire chain and new HIDs", I never said you had to make my bike perfect or compensate me for all the BS I have had to go through. But I did expect something more than "there's nothing I can do".

It's a used bike and I never expected it to be perfect. That's why I have not even mentioned the clunk the front forks make, the lower than normal fuel efficiency, or the ~4 year old tires that I had to replace because they were hardened and didn't grip well anymore. However you missed some really major stuff Andrew and what's worse, you seemed more interested in talking your way out of it than dealing with the situation.

What would you do in my place?

canway said:

Here’s the real story. The customer purchased the bike. We had it inspected and included a free oil / filter change. The chain was also adjusted at this time with lots of room left to be adjusted, not stretched out beyond use as the buyer suggested. I even included a brand new battery since the old one was a little weak and I didn’t want the buyer to have any issues. Within a very short time the buyer had called me to say he believed the sprocket had excessive wear. As a good will gesture I offered to replace the sprocket with a good used providing he would take care of the install, the buyer agreed to this resolution without hesitation. Never did I refuse to install it. This is a flat out lie. The sprocket I obtained for the buyer came off a bike with very low km’s, real sharp sprocket. Not salvage bike like the buyer claims, it was from a bike that had a chain conversion kit swapped in. After this point I was under the impression the buyer was happy as he made contact with me asking him to help him out with sourcing aftermarket parts at my cost, which I did with no monetary benefit to the company. Then months after purchase the buyer came by my dealership and said he replaced the chain and ordered a new filter. He claimed the chain was very rusty but when reviewing high resolution photos I have I could see the rust. I asked him if he replaced the filter, he said that he had ordered one but had not actually replaced it. Why was he still riding the bike that day if it should have been replaced 5000kms ago? The buyer should have brought any issues or concerns he had to my attention, we are always here for our buyers. Instead the buyer chose to go out and spend money before consulting with me and asking me to fix the situation after the fact. The bottom line is this; if I were “deliberately scamming customers and making a few extra bucks” would I have put a new battery in the bike when the old one still started the bike? Why would I have replaced the sprocket for you after the sale was already made? I ask the community to take the original posters rant with a grain of salt. Everyone in business knows for every 100 satisfied customers there is always 1 you just cant please. This gentleman appears to be one of those. We always operate in good faith and the buyer has clearly exaggerated the situation. Attached are pictures of the bike when it was in our possession. How dirty does it look to you? Attached are pictures of the chain, how rusty does it look to you?

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Always 3 sides to EVERY story ...

Here's the third side of the story, mine:

1) I've been a very close friend of Marc's since mid-2005. The last thing he would do is take time out of his life to whine about problems he didn't start or cause. Marc is a more stand-up and honorable person than I think anyone could ever know in all aspects of his life conduct, so if you're to believe he is garnering sympathy or the 1-in-100 customer you just can't please, or whatever other nonsense, you can continue to bury your heads in the sand, because you would be dead wrong about it.

2) I've been with Marc throughout his entire motorcycling career, including the purchase of his former bike, going with him to check out other bikes that would possibly replace it, and everything after. I was simply unavailable the day he bought it from Canway to go down with him to check it out and give him my advice.

3) I remember Marc showing me the ad via e-mail (it is long gone, since kijiji ads do expire), and I do remember the ad said HIDs were installed on the bike. I have e-mail archives of us discussing how HIDs were mentioned in the ad, and trust my memory when I remember talking with him about it at various points throughout the purchase-decision-making process.

4) I was the one who found the acorns in Marc's airbox. I took off his airbox and heard a surprising rattle. I shook it and a single acorn fell out. I shook it harder and heard a WHOLE crapload of rattling in the box. I waited for Marc to return in a short amount of time and we both opened the airbox for the first time to find it littered with a pile of acorns and other nut shells. The air filter didn't look like it had been changed in 10 forevers.

5) The very first day he brought the bike to me to see it, I first noticed the worn out sprocket. I mentioned it to him and showed him what a sprocket that's reasonable and safe and good should look like. (Seriously, no dealer in their right mind should be selling such a sprocket). Canway did give him a replacement sprocket for free, though I was not there when that happened, either.

6) I was with him when we went to Rosey Toes to have Ted swap out his tires. It was there that Marc got his sprocket installed, and had to buy a new chain, as the old one did indeed have a pile of rust on it here and there. You don't get that kind of rust in the time Marc had his bike, even if you leave it outside in the rain every single day, which was nowhere near the reality.

7) I accompanied him to Canway the other day where he spoke with a representative there, and returned saying the dealership was not going to cooperate in any way, and we left.

So there it is.

No actually yours is the 4 side .. its biased.

infernobuster said:

No actually yours is the 4 side .. its biased.

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Feel free to point out the parts that didn't actually happen as described. You will find none.

viper84737 said:

Feel free to point out the parts that didn't actually happen as described. You will find none.

Click to expand...

Not saying it did or didnt .. besides a bad review of this which i ve never ever heard of, but what are you looking for resolution wise ?

Perhaps canway can try and attempt some sort of resolution ?

Bike looks clean in my eyes...chain is hard to see.. do you store bike outdoors?

Nope, bike stored in an underground garage and not ridden in the rain since I got it. I watched the entire chain removal procedure from 2 feet away. Ted (Rosy Toes) shows me the rust around the o-rings after he pulled off the chain and said "Oh yeah, that one's done". Again, I'm no chain expert, but I saw the rust, saw the kinks where it would not lie flat, and saw the adjuster on the swing arm way at the far end before Ted hammered it back so he could install the new chain. I tend to trust Ted as he's got one of the most stellar reputations for honesty and good work in the entire GTA.

And yeah I would agree with you that the bike looks impeccably clean in that pic. It's one of the things that drew me to come see it in the first place. But up close it wasn't so squeeky clean. I'm not saying it was full of mud, but it was not what you'd expect from that pic. Enough that on the day I paid, I specifically asked Andrew to clean it before I came to pick it up (to which he agreed). It did not appear that he'd even tried because it still had thick dust on many easy to see and reach surfaces. I'm not expecting a 3 hour detail job, but a 15 minute wipe with a towel would have been too much after I was specifically promised a clean bike? Just another one of those details that were off.

I'd be happy to hear what Andrew has to say. It is entirely possible that 99% of the time they run a tight ship and I'm just the one that slipped through the cracks. I tend to give people the benefit of a doubt, but when I see one thing after another not coming out as promised it's tough to do that.A lot of details were missed or ignored on my bike. Is it really normal for this much to go wrong in the first month and a half of buying from a dealer and then getting stonewalled by them?

Either way I mean no ill will towards Andrew but I still call it the way I see it based on the evidence I see.

Btw, Andrew, I said this was my first REAL bike buy not my first bike ever. A 250 is a learner bike one generally grows out of in a season.

Any comments Andrew? If you're going say that you are "there for your customers" and then stonewall frustrated and angry clients on public forums, that's really not going to help your credibility.

I am not looking for an unreasonable resolution like you paying for my HIDs, chain, chain/sprocket install, and air filter, (likely well over $500 in total) but "there's nothing I can do" is not an acceptable resolution to all these compounded problems. How about we talk this over as adults? Whether we reach an agreement on here or offline, I would be happy to report that fact on the forum.

I would love to get this over with minimum hassles, but I'm not going to let you dump all these problems on me just because you think no one will hear about it.

Salvage is the correct term when using a used part to fix or correct another whole unit/product.

This dealer came up in my search of a bike I'm about to purchase. Whole dealership seems skecthy as f***. plus I found this
http://www.omvic.on.ca/portal/Porta... Andrew David Bell o-a Canway Motorsports.pdf