Interesting day in court, I think I'm going to appeal

Rob MacLennan said:

And as I said previously, the system must be tested. If it isn't tested, it cannot improve. If it isn't held to the appropriate standard those who are guilty will go free, and those who are innocent will be convicted. Making use of your rights is not a waste.

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And as I've never said before, the system doesn't necessarily improve, it adapts. So if we continue on this course, more things will become common such as: arguing your case with a clerk, being forced to give a sample or lose your license with no suspicion two hours after you've left the vehicle, automatic roadside suspension, the red light camera system. Your no longer gaming the system, the system is gaming you. Our rights are gradually being eroded away, so if that isn't waste, I don't know what is. Consider that the GTA, Provincial and Federal governments were all left of centre, when this type of legislation was passed, I don't see the new right of centre Provincial government fixing the situation. It's priorities appear to be elsewhere at the moment.

I do believe that I understand your point, and it would be really great if everyone could get a proper trial with a proper judge. That may be what we deserve, but the resources just aren't there, so the government will take shortcuts to lessen the load.

Try to see my side of things, if you still can't, I don't have anything more to say at this point.

Baggsy said:

And as I've never said before, the system doesn't necessarily improve, it adapts. So if we continue on this course, more things will become common such as: arguing your case with a clerk, being forced to give a sample or lose your license with no suspicion two hours after you've left the vehicle, automatic roadside suspension, the red light camera system. Your no longer gaming the system, the system is gaming you. Our rights are gradually being eroded away, so if that isn't waste, I don't know what is. Consider that the GTA, Provincial and Federal governments were all left of centre, when this type of legislation was passed, I don't see the new right of centre Provincial government fixing the situation. It's priorities appear to be elsewhere at the moment.

I do believe that I understand your point, and it would be really great if everyone could get a proper trial with a proper judge. That may be what we deserve, but the resources just aren't there, so the government will take shortcuts to lessen the load.

Try to see my side of things, if you still can't, I don't have anything more to say at this point.

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Very well put . Today you have to prove you are innocent .

As a former copper, I agree with Rob, EVERYONE, weather they committed the offence or not, are ENTITLED to their day in court and that is a fundamental right of our justice system.

Yes, some people do try to play the system, and it goes in their favour.

A prime example of the other side of the coin is the well known case of Bruce McArthur. People wanted him to be sentenced, to NO chance of parole for the max, (8 X 25 years). Now, would it not have been ridiculous for the system to sentence a 67 year old person to a term of 200 years?

Now, you see people who are "guilty" playing the system and wasting said systems resources, but Mr McArthur, did NOT play the system and as such got a material "benefit" by doing so, (only 25 years before he can apply for parole, Which he will never be granted), but by pleading out, he saved VAST amounts of resources. So in some form or another, the system seems to balance itself out.

I encourage, ANYONE charged with an offence to contest it in court. What you may see as a "technicality" is in fact a failure of the system, to meet it's burden. I have gone to court over that last 25 years three times. According to you I simply should have plead guilty and "taken my lumps" in 2 of those cases. I choose to exercise my right to have the system PROVE their case.

None, of the cases, went to trial, each offence was withdrawn, by the crown. Not on a "technicality", but rather because of my experience, I KNEW how to prep, my defence. Upon seeing how organized I was, and that I had prepped more than enough to bring, more than a shadow of a doubt, the crown simply opted to forego the chance of being beaten, and showing others how to win.

Mow, none of my offences "wasted the courts time", as I met with the crown, before the JP ever entered the courtroom. Upon being called the crown merely rose and withdrew the charges.

It is not up to you, me, Rob or anyone else, to determine another person's guilt. Only the courts have that privilege. If they did indeed commit the offence and for whatever reason, they, (in your mind), wasted the courts resources and played the system, then they need only answer in two ways, one to their conscious, and secondly, to their maker, (regardless of their belief system)...lol

But, it is likely time for the mods, to end the discussion as we will NEVER know the final outcome given that the OP, has been removed from the forum and hence this discussion.

We can continue next time this comes up, as it will.

Baggsy said:

And as I've never said before, the system doesn't necessarily improve, it adapts. So if we continue on this course, more things will become common such as: arguing your case with a clerk, being forced to give a sample or lose your license with no suspicion two hours after you've left the vehicle, automatic roadside suspension, the red light camera system. Your no longer gaming the system, the system is gaming you. Our rights are gradually being eroded away, so if that isn't waste, I don't know what is. Consider that the GTA, Provincial and Federal governments were all left of centre, when this type of legislation was passed, I don't see the new right of centre Provincial government fixing the situation. It's priorities appear to be elsewhere at the moment.

I do believe that I understand your point, and it would be really great if everyone could get a proper trial with a proper judge. That may be what we deserve, but the resources just aren't there, so the government will take shortcuts to lessen the load.

Try to see my side of things, if you still can't, I don't have anything more to say at this point.

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The very erosion of those rights that you tout, is protected by fighting such laws in court.