The Official Ongoing Kitchener-Waterloo and surrounding areas thread | Page 275 | GTAMotorcycle.com

The Official Ongoing Kitchener-Waterloo and surrounding areas thread

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Hope so, going to give moto 86 a shot. Started riding dirt , and trails a bit back in 92. Some donkey, stole my bike from under, my Dads cottage in 93. Got busy, in life ha ha . Now 25 years later, wanna give it a go again :)
 
felixx said:
Currently riding, a 2013 CBR 500 r, any chance I get. Had er, out today a bit :)
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Ride safe. Remember there's tons of sand, potholes, asphalt patch remnants and gravel from the winter... tires don't get to optimum temperatures either.

My bikes won't be out for a while yet. Not worth the risk to me for some early season sharts and giggles.
 
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I went to take the VFR out for a short rip today to test out the rebuilt brakes and ran into something odd. They are bled correctly. First pull of the lever isn't as firm as you'd expect. A full release and immediate subsequent pulls are noticeably firmer. No air coming up, no leaks anywhere in the system I can find. If you press and hold the lever after it's firm, it stays firm. Only once you release the lever and wait a second does the next pull feel weak.

I took apart the MC, but I can't see anything. I'll get a rebuild kit from Honda, but I find the behavior odd. I have an old master from the CBR with the same bolt thread to see if its the cylinder or not, but I'll likely try the rebuild first.
 
smergy said:
I went to take the VFR out for a short rip today to test out the rebuilt brakes and ran into something odd. They are bled correctly. First pull of the lever isn't as firm as you'd expect. A full release and immediate subsequent pulls are noticeably firmer. No air coming up, no leaks anywhere in the system I can find. If you press and hold the lever after it's firm, it stays firm. Only once you release the lever and wait a second does the next pull feel weak.

I took apart the MC, but I can't see anything. I'll get a rebuild kit from Honda, but I find the behavior odd. I have an old master from the CBR with the same bolt thread to see if its the cylinder or not, but I'll likely try the rebuild first.
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VFR has ABS too right? Does it also have Honda brake distribution system where if you brake on the front, it also engages the rear and vice versa? It sounds like an internal leak somewhere but it's interesting that you're able to build/maintain pressure after the initial pull... I'm also gonna be rebuilding something soon. The power steering pump on my car is pooched :( Gasket kit from Mazda was $30. If that doesn't fix it, I'll have to grab a replacement.
 
It has both ABS and a "linked" brake system. The later is a bit of a misnomer though. The rear brake controls the rear 2 pistons and 1 of the front pistons. The other 11 front pistons work off the front brake lever, but are otherwise independent except for the ABS modulator:

https://www.ronayers.com/oemparts/a/hon/505406e3f870021c54becc2c/abs-modulator

We'll do some more testing tonight and see if we can get a better idea of what is happening.
 
I should mention, the line between the back pedal and the front brake is missing from the diagram, but considering I don't have a front M/C connected and the rear brake is still firm, it leads me to believe they are independent.
 
Tim, sorry for the delay on getting back to you with some date options, I'll ask saara again.

Some more diagnostics into the front brake issue. I took the bike for a spin around the cul-de-sac to verify that 1.) The rear brakes work as expected and 2.) There is no ABS MIL (you need to reach a certain speed before the system engages)

Both of these turn out to be true, which is good, the ABS controller for the bike is pricey. So I swapped in the old CBR stock M/C. The VFR M/C is all 1 unit with the plunger and resevoir, so its hard to see what the brake fluid is doing as it goes down the gauntlet. With a remote resevoir, some clear tube and a marker we notice that

1.) On the first pull the fluid level drops. If we let go, it gradually climes back to the original height.
2.) On 2 subsequent pulls, we see the fluid level drops twice. If the lever is held, it remains at the lowest position.
3.) When we release the lever, the fluid level again returns to the original position

This suggests the system volume is not constant between the first and 2nd pull. Since no air is coming up and no leaks can be found, this seems to me like the rubber hoses are getting weaker over time. Only part of the system is rubber, but there is enough line, it seems like a reasonable conclusion.

I asked K/W Honda, they "had never seen it". I also don't think they see more than 1 VFR1200 a year either... so a grain of salt perhaps.

There are 2 solutions, direct lines to the calipers or a full line set that runs through the ABS controller. Not sure which one we'll go with yet.
 
smergy said:
Some more diagnostics into the front brake issue.

...

There are 2 solutions, direct lines to the calipers or a full line set that runs through the ABS controller. Not sure which one we'll go with yet.
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I'd just run straight to the calipers and take ABS out completely. I wouldn't want ABS on a bike unless its really unobtrusive. I'd also worry about getting in the habit of just mashing the brakes and letting the ABS work. If I were to go and ride a bike without it, I'd go airborne :eek:

Can you think of a time when ABS truly saved you? I've gotten used to the feel of the rear locking up and I consider that I have sufficient riding experience to be able to safely make an emergency stop. I suppose on wet surfaces it's benefits increase tremendously though I seldom ride in the rain and when I do I like to leave a huge safety buffer.
 
You use the rear while making emergency stops? That's a big mistake because stopping the rear wheel while hard braking with the front greatly decreases the stability of the bike (disabling the large rear gyro).

I agree with what you alluded to about people relying on ABS. Also traction control these days... lots of new riders with S1000RR's who likely are not learning to respect 100hp let alone 200hp.
 
doozerdave said:
You use the rear while making emergency stops? That's a big mistake because stopping the rear wheel while hard braking with the front greatly decreases the stability of the bike (disabling the large rear gyro).

I agree with what you alluded to about people relying on ABS.
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Yea, I always use both brakes. That being said, in an emergency stop, the rear brake is a very light touch. I've only locked up the back when fooling around just to see what it feels like and how I can control it. At the track, I always use the rear brake a little into corner entry to settle the bike but once I'm deeper in, it's just the front brake to try to get as big of a contact patch on that front tire.

doozerdave said:
Also traction control these days... lots of new riders with S1000RR's who likely are not learning to respect 100hp let alone 200hp.
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Yea, supposedly you can grab a fist full of throttle on corner exit and the bike just handles it. Definitely a cool feature but at what point do we draw the line of rider assists infringing on the actual enjoyment of riding a motorcycle? The whole point of riding (to me anyway) is to get as raw of an experience as possible. Otherwise, what's the point?
 
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smergy said:
Tim, sorry for the delay on getting back to you with some date options, I'll ask saara again.

*snip*...Since no air is coming up and no leaks can be found, this seems to me like the rubber hoses are getting weaker over time. Only part of the system is rubber, but there is enough line, it seems like a reasonable conclusion.
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No worries on date. Sooner the better though, so I can ask about what days I'll be instructing.

As for the brake lines - your rubber weakening theory makes perfect sense.
Question - would it be possible to run a brake line from your CBR to the VFR (swap them out I mean)? Banjo bolts etc compatible?
If so, may as well give it a whirl. Will give you a final diagnosis as to if it's the rubber lines or not.

Maybe use some regular DOT4 fluid for testing instead of the Motul race fluid.
 
Whether its the lines, or some other crazy explanation, the only solution is either replace all the lines with a kit (and risk its not the lines), or just get custom length lines and go straight to the calipers. Measured them out tonight, I'll see what Tony says, if not see if we can get them direct form the US.

Lines from the CBR are too short, Nissin calipers/M/C for both, so they are interchangable. I'm using regular DOT 4 in the VFR (apparently bosch makes, or at least brands brake fluid).

Talked to Saara, Her dates:

May 19-20 (I think its a little early, could be cold still if its anything like last year), neither of us really have rain gear...
May 26-27
June 2-3 (only if nothing else works)
June 23-24
June 30-31

Let me know if any of that works for you.
 
The commitment thing that's so prevalent in today's society... sigh...
[video=youtube_share;CyE3Pyr__ps]http://youtu.be/CyE3Pyr__ps?t=2s[/video]
 
smergy said:
...
Talked to Saara, Her dates:
May 26-27
Let me know if any of that works for you.
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That works best for me.
As far as rain gear goes, all you really need is a cheapie set of vinyl rain gear from Crappy Tire or something like that.
Learned last year that using good stuff isn't a wise idea - shredded my Frog Toggs pants but the jacket was still good.

So, all you snowflakes, let us know if you're in or out!
 
Sounds good, lets schedule that in. Are you going to sign up as a group once we know whos committed?

BigEvilDoer said:
That works best for me.
As far as rain gear goes, all you really need is a cheapie set of vinyl rain gear from Crappy Tire or something like that.
Learned last year that using good stuff isn't a wise idea - shredded my Frog Toggs pants but the jacket was still good.

So, all you snowflakes, let us know if you're in or out!
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smergy said:
Sounds good, lets schedule that in. Are you going to sign up as a group once we know whos committed?
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Will register it as a group name, and we all call individually and reference the group name. That way nobody is on the hook for paying up front for any snowflakes which back out last second.
 
BigEvilDoer said:
That works best for me.
As far as rain gear goes, all you really need is a cheapie set of vinyl rain gear from Crappy Tire or something like that.
Learned last year that using good stuff isn't a wise idea - shredded my Frog Toggs pants but the jacket was still good.

So, all you snowflakes, let us know if you're in or out!
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I'm around that weekend, but it's my father-in-laws birthday. Until I know when/If we're getting together, (Julia's family gets together for everything...) I'm still on the Snowflake list.
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