Paking lot practice question | GTAMotorcycle.com

Paking lot practice question

M

matt123

Well-known member
Hi everybody I've been lurking here for weeks and have to say this has to be by far the best Canadian site for the sport of motorcycling.I've been an avid motorcyclist for many years and have restored many bikes in that time and usually end up with with a different bike every year currently i have four most are UJM
I recently picked up a little 2007 cbr125r and put it in a family members name in order to introduce them to the sport.In the passed I've always had my own parking lot to use in order teach the basics but thats no longer the case.
The bike is not insured or plated but i have found lot that i could use for practice.
What fines would stick should the police drive by and gain interest.I'm thinking we could get $5000 for no insurance.I asked the owner and hes fine with it but will swear up and down didn't know what we were up to if we get caught which is totally understandable. Any insight you can give will be greatly appreciated thanks
 
The worst would, in fact, be the no insurance charge which STARTS at $5K in fines and goes as high as $25K for a first offence.
 
In a private parking lot, the Highway Traffic Act doesn't apply.

How are you going to get the bike to the parking lot?
 
Brian P said:
In a private parking lot, the Highway Traffic Act doesn't apply.

How are you going to get the bike to the parking lot?
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The requirements for vehicle insurance is defined under the Insurance Act of Ontario. Any motor vehicle operated on any property OTHER than that owned/occupied by the vehicle owner must have a minimum of $200,000 of liability insurance. This is referred to in both the Highway Traffic Act and in the Offroad Vehicles Act.
 
It's an interesting situation. If it was an offroad vehicle then you would need insurance, unless operating it on your own property. If it's a road-going vehicle, then you would need to have insurance when operating on a "highway." Which is it, with respect to this situation?
 
Rob MacLennan said:
It's an interesting situation. If it was an offroad vehicle then you would need insurance, unless operating it on your own property. If it's a road-going vehicle, then you would need to have insurance when operating on a "highway." Which is it, with respect to this situation?
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The definition of an offroad vehicle in the Offroad Vehicles Act is so simple that it could apply to any motorcycle operated anywhere:
“off-road vehicle” means a vehicle propelled or driven otherwise than by muscular power or wind and designed to travel,
(a) on not more than three wheels, or
(b) on more than three wheels and being of a prescribed class of vehicle; (“véhicule tout terrain”)​
 
turbodish said:
The definition of an offroad vehicle in the Offroad Vehicles Act is so simple that it could apply to any motorcycle operated anywhere:
“off-road vehicle” means a vehicle propelled or driven otherwise than by muscular power or wind and designed to travel,
(a) on not more than three wheels, or
(b) on more than three wheels and being of a prescribed class of vehicle; (“véhicule tout terrain”)​
Click to expand...

It was a rhetorical question ;)
 
turbodish said:
The requirements for vehicle insurance is defined under the Insurance Act of Ontario. Any motor vehicle operated on any property OTHER than that owned/occupied by the vehicle owner must have a minimum of $200,000 of liability insurance. This is referred to in both the Highway Traffic Act and in the Offroad Vehicles Act.
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So a renter can't drive his vehicle on his driveway without insurance? And can a condo owner drive his vehicle anywhere on condo property even if he owns just a fraction of a percent of it?
 
fastar1 said:
So a renter can't drive his vehicle on his driveway without insurance? And can a condo owner drive his vehicle anywhere on condo property even if he owns just a fraction of a percent of it?
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An occupier can be a renter. A condo owner would not be consider an occupier of the condo common element grass or roadways.

“occupier” includes,
(a) a person who is in physical possession of the land, or
(b) a person who has responsibility for and control over the condition of land or the activities there carried on, or control over persons allowed to enter the land,​
even if there is more than one occupier of the same land; (“occupant”)​
 
turbodish said:
The requirements for vehicle insurance is defined under the Insurance Act of Ontario. Any motor vehicle operated on any property OTHER than that owned/occupied by the vehicle owner must have a minimum of $200,000 of liability insurance. This is referred to in both the Highway Traffic Act and in the Offroad Vehicles Act.
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Does this mean that Motocross/Road Track only bikes should have insurance on them, even if they are only operated on private tracks?
 
Modeboy said:
Does this mean that Motocross/Road Track only bikes should have insurance on them, even if they are only operated on private tracks?
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That's a different sort of context. In those cases the organizer and/or the facility would have blanket event insurance coverage that would cover liability for the facility, organizers, and riders, and the specific insurance in place would be dependent on the specific nature of the activity. The point is, there is liability insurance coverage in place as appropriate to the kind of activity being undertaken.
 
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turbodish said:
An occupier can be a renter. A condo owner would not be consider an occupier of the condo common element grass or roadways.
“occupier” includes,
(a) a person who is in physical possession of the land, or
(b) a person who has responsibility for and control over the condition of land or the activities there carried on, or control over persons allowed to enter the land,​
even if there is more than one occupier of the same land; (“occupant”)​
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The condo owners may not an occupier but I believe they are the owners of the common areas? Maintenance and upkeep of these common areas is a big part of the monthly fees, which makes them responsible for the property.
 
turbodish said:
That's a different sort of context. In those cases the organizer and/or the facility would have blanket event insurance coverage that would cover liability for the facility, organizers, and riders, and the specific insurance in place would be dependent on the specific nature of the activity. The point is, there is liability insurance coverage in place as appropriate to the kind of activity being undertaken.
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Thanks for the info turbo'

It makes sense for events and professionally maintained courses, but with Motocross it's often that we'll have privately owned track owners that allow riders on their tracks with a "donation" and a signed waiver. I'm curious about that sitch too!
 
The bikes already in her name and i don't want to put her at risk with the police before she gets started.The problem is the seasons over and her m1 will expire long before i can get her into a MSC next year and who knows if she will actually ride.I think I'm going to to have to get it insured and plated then take her out on Sunday morning and see how it goes.I had her walk the bike up and down the driveway a few times today and she has good control of the friction point even on a fairly steep slope while holding the back brake.Thanks for your input.
 
matt123 said:
The bikes already in her name and i don't want to put her at risk with the police before she gets started.The problem is the seasons over and her m1 will expire long before i can get her into a MSC next year and who knows if she will actually ride.I think I'm going to to have to get it insured and plated then take her out on Sunday morning and see how it goes.I had her walk the bike up and down the driveway a few times today and she has good control of the friction point even on a fairly steep slope while holding the back brake.Thanks for your input.
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The insurance is a good idea for more than just the cop standpoint. She's a new rider, and that means she is a good candidate for dropping the bike. Even if you minimize potential third party liability issues by finding a spot with nobody else around, a drop still carries potential for injury, even severe injury, to the rider herself. Proper accident benefits coverage to cover potential injuries and aftercare is simply a no-brainer from a self-interest point of view.
 
turbodish said:
The requirements for vehicle insurance is defined under the Insurance Act of Ontario. Any motor vehicle operated on any property OTHER than that owned/occupied by the vehicle owner must have a minimum of $200,000 of liability insurance. This is referred to in both the Highway Traffic Act and in the Offroad Vehicles Act.
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I would be very interested to know why sections of both the HTA and the Insurance Act you are relying on?
 
If it truly is a private parking lot then you do not need insurance, however you would need to already have the bike on that property or tow it there or transport it as you cannot ride the motorcycle on any public road or even in a public shopping mall parking lot without liability coverage. The requirement for insurance is not defined in the Highway Traffic Act or Insurance Act but rather the Compulsory Automobile Insurance Act of Ontario. Basically no owner/lessee of a motor vehicle may operate or permit the operation of a motor vehicle on any highway unless it is insured under an insurance contract. The definition of "highway" is found under the Highway Traffic Act and includes highways (obviously), but basically any common/public streets, roads, driveways, or basically any area used by the public for passage of vehicles.

http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statutes/english/elaws_statutes_90c25_e.htm
http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statutes/english/elaws_statutes_90h08_e.htm#BK0

The part where you say you have "found" a lot to practice sounds a bit iffy without further description. Is this a public lot that is simply empty on weekends? Do you know the owner of the lot and is he/she willing to let you use it for practice and risk the liability in case something goes wrong? If you owned your own private parking lot or track which is securely closed off from the public and only for private personal use then you're probably fine. Any other lots "found" sounds a bit iffy to me.
 
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turbodish
I agree in fact the majority of rider deaths occur at speeds below 40kmh according to the HURT report.And other studies have also concluded that there is little difference between a stationary bike and a moving bike where road to head contact injuries are conserned.It's not the speed so much as the heigth of the fall.Ive had and 800lb cruser slam me so hard into the pavment that it cracked my hemet and left a bone bruse on my a** just becaues i forgot to put the kickstand down and at a CMC bike night no less. Ive done it since and will probably do it again.Thanks for the reminder had that one blocked out :rolleyes:
 
Boom King said:
If it truly is a private parking lot then you do not need insurance, however you would need to already have the bike on that property or tow it there or transport it as you cannot ride the motorcycle on any public road or even in a public shopping mall parking lot without liability coverage. The requirement for insurance is not defined in the Highway Traffic Act or Insurance Act but rather the Compulsory Automobile Insurance Act of Ontario. Basically no owner/lessee of a motor vehicle may operate or permit the operation of a motor vehicle on any highway unless it is insured under an insurance contract. The definition of "highway" is found under the Highway Traffic Act and includes highways (obviously), but basically any common/public streets, roads, driveways, or basically any area used by the public for passage of vehicles.

http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statutes/english/elaws_statutes_90c25_e.htm
http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statutes/english/elaws_statutes_90h08_e.htm#BK0

The part where you say you have "found" a lot to practice sounds a bit iffy without further description. Is this a public lot that is simply empty on weekends? Do you know the owner of the lot and is he/she willing to let you use it for practice and risk the liability in case something goes wrong? If you owned your own private parking lot or track which is securely closed off from the public and only for private personal use then you're probably fine. Any other lots "found" sounds a bit iffy to me.
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You are forgetting one link:

http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statutes/english/elaws_statutes_90o04_e.htm

... which makes your comments incorrect.
 
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