No Ownership with Bike...So Now What?



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Thread: No Ownership with Bike...So Now What?

  1. #1
    Hamr Mark's Avatar
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    No Ownership with Bike...So Now What?

    Hey Gang,

    I did a search and couldn't find what I am looking for so here we go:

    I am looking at buying 1 bike + 1 parts bike. These are vintage 250's, both are road bikes but neither have ownerships with the frame.

    So, I can go down to the MTO and say what ???

    What if they say the frames are stolen ???

    Anyway to check out the vins before I buy ???

    Or do I just walk away?

    Any help would be great.
    Cheers...Ham'r
    ----------------
    Built, Not Bought™

  2. #2
    Freestyle72's Avatar
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    Re: No Ownership with Bike...So Now What?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamr Mark View Post
    Hey Gang,

    I did a search and couldn't find what I am looking for so here we go:

    I am looking at buying 1 bike + 1 parts bike. These are vintage 250's, both are road bikes but neither have ownerships with the frame.

    So, I can go down to the MTO and say what ???

    What if they say the frames are stolen ???

    Anyway to check out the vins before I buy ???

    Or do I just walk away?

    Any help would be great.
    PM retrogrouch he has a terrific method to take care of this.

    Also walk away if they are asking too much... But if it's like $300 for a bike, then whatever do it.

  3. #3
    psycho44's Avatar
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    Re: No Ownership with Bike...So Now What?

    don't know if the same applies to motorcycles as mopeds but you can say you've had it garaged for a long time and lost the ownership. You've also lost contact details for previous owner.

  4. #4
    Hamr Mark's Avatar
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    Re: No Ownership with Bike...So Now What?

    The bikes are going for somewhere between $500-$700 for the pair...Well 1 runner, 1 parts bike
    Cheers...Ham'r
    ----------------
    Built, Not Bought™

  5. #5
    Freestyle72's Avatar
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    Re: No Ownership with Bike...So Now What?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamr Mark View Post
    The bikes are going for somewhere between $500-$700 for the pair...Well 1 runner, 1 parts bike
    If you think you can part out the 2 bikes for 500 or more I say buy them.

  6. #6
    Salos Dafee's Avatar
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    Here is what Ontario sez.

    I found the info below at:

    http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/faq...le.shtml#used5

    and it indicates that the seller is responsible for providing the documentation that you need to establish that you are the bonafide owner of what you bought. If the seller is not willing to provide this information, then perhaps the bikes are stolen property and can never be registered in Ontario. I suggest you back away from this deal unless the UVIP is provided with the bikes, and not "Yeah, I'll bring you the UVIP on Thursday, just gimme the money now."

    This is your tax dollars at work, and I suggest you follow MOT rules.


    What is a Used Vehicle Information Package (UVIP)?

    The Used Vehicle Information Package (UVIP) contains vehicle registration history in Ontario, including all present and previous owners in Ontario as well as the municipality of residence, odometer information, vehicle lien information (i.e. if there are any liens registered on the vehicle), the fair market value (Red Book) on which the minimum tax payable will apply and other information such as consumer tips, vehicle safety standards inspection, retail sales tax information and forms for bill of sales.
    The private seller of a used motor vehicle is required to purchase a Used Vehicle Information Package. For most transfers of vehicles between private sellers, a UVIP is mandatory. Unless the types of vehicle and transfer situations are exempt, the seller is required to supply the purchaser with this package at the time of sale. The purchaser must then present the UVIP to the Driver and Vehicle Licence Issuing Office when transferring the vehicle registration. One example of an exemption to this package are transfers between linear family members (excluding siblings). Linear family members have been defined as father, mother, step-mother, step-father, spouse, grandfather, grandmother, son, daughter, step-son, step-daughter, step-grandson, step-granddaughter, grandson, granddaughter, mother-in-law, father-in-law, son-in-law, daughter-in-law. For further information on possible exemptions, please call ServiceOntario’s Driver and Vehicle Contact Centre at 1-800-387-3445 or in Toronto at 416-235-2999.
    How much does a UVIP cost?

    This package costs $20.00, payable by Visa, MasterCard, or American Express.
    What information do I need to get a UVIP?

    You need the vehicle identification number (VIN) or the licence plate number of the vehicle in question.
    I already bought my car. Why do I need a UVIP?

    By law, a UVIP is required to transfer ownership of an Ontario registered vehicle sold through private sale.
    "Stay at least one standard deviation away from everybody else."

  7. #7

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    Re: No Ownership with Bike...So Now What?

    Back in the day you could swear an afidavid(SP fer sher) with the justice of the peace. Maybe that angle still works? Check it out. I mean, does it really make sense that a vehickle becomes unroadable because the title is missing. What if you washed your lederhosen with Porsche 911 Turbo ownership innem?

  8. #8
    Hamr Mark's Avatar
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    Re: No Ownership with Bike...So Now What?

    I would hate to have the MTO say the bike is stolen, and then I up the creek proper like.

    I figure though, for $500, it doesn't sound like too bad of a deal....I hope.
    Cheers...Ham'r
    ----------------
    Built, Not Bought™

  9. #9

    Re: No Ownership with Bike...So Now What?

    affidavit..... but those can be made in bad faith, so I don't think the ministry accepts those these days. If they did, the world would be going to hell a lot faster than it already is.

  10. #10

    Re: No Ownership with Bike...So Now What?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamr Mark View Post
    Hey Gang,

    I did a search and couldn't find what I am looking for so here we go:

    I am looking at buying 1 bike + 1 parts bike. These are vintage 250's, both are road bikes but neither have ownerships with the frame.

    So, I can go down to the MTO and say what ???

    What if they say the frames are stolen ???

    Anyway to check out the vins before I buy ???

    Or do I just walk away?

    Any help would be great.
    go get a uvip and see what it says?

  11. #11
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    Re: No Ownership with Bike...So Now What?

    Obtain the VIN for both bikes from the stampings and stickers on the frame. No sticker is not a big problem, those can disappear, but if there is a sticker it should match the stamping on the frame, and if there is no stamping on the frame, run away.

    If you have the VIN, the MoT can re-print the ownership for the registered owner. You might need to go to the MoT office with the current owner to do this transaction. If there is a problem at this point ... run away.

  12. #12

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    Re: No Ownership with Bike...So Now What?

    if it’s listed as stolen, don’t forget to report it.

  13. #13
    psycho44's Avatar
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    Re: No Ownership with Bike...So Now What?

    Quote Originally Posted by inreb View Post
    Back in the day you could swear an afidavid(SP fer sher) with the justice of the peace. Maybe that angle still works? Check it out. I mean, does it really make sense that a vehickle becomes unroadable because the title is missing. What if you washed your lederhosen with Porsche 911 Turbo ownership innem?
    I forgot to add that part. You'll have to find a MOT center that has someone to swear an affidavit to. Well at least for old mopeds it still works. But you don't need safety certs or UVIP to register a moped so motorcycles are bit more complicated. Doesn't hurt to ask the person that you swear the affidavit to anyways.

  14. #14

    Re: No Ownership with Bike...So Now What?

    you can enter the v i n here..
    http://www.cpic-cipc.ca/English/search.cfm

  15. #15

    Re: No Ownership with Bike...So Now What?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian P View Post
    Obtain the VIN for both bikes from the stampings and stickers on the frame. No sticker is not a big problem, those can disappear, but if there is a sticker it should match the stamping on the frame, and if there is no stamping on the frame, run away.

    If you have the VIN, the MoT can re-print the ownership for the registered owner. You might need to go to the MoT office with the current owner to do this transaction. If there is a problem at this point ... run away.
    Small correction on this,.. The stamped frame is not always the case, i worked at a custom bike shop in Ottawa and earlier harleys only had the engines stamped, some pans, knuckles and earlier models had no frame stamping. So unstamped frame dose not mean stolen when it's vintage...

  16. #16

    Re: No Ownership with Bike...So Now What?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Azim View Post
    affidavit..... but those can be made in bad faith, so I don't think the ministry accepts those these days. If they did, the world would be going to hell a lot faster than it already is.

    Affidavit still works, some MTO offices actually have a notary on hand that can do it for you.

    However, the bike still needs to have a valid VIN, and it must be a clean VIN no liens and cannot be stolen.

    Cheapest way is too get a UVIP.

    I dont think the affadivit would fly with a late model machine though, maybe a 60/70/80's barn find bike yes, but not a 2010.

  17. #17

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    Re: No Ownership with Bike...So Now What?

    +1 on the UVIP, if the title is clear you be fine with an affidavit. End of story.
    My Ride 1999 Honda VFR 800

  18. #18
    skip's Avatar
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    Re: No Ownership with Bike...So Now What?

    afidavid and a UVIP. Still need the VIN #. The MTO will reprint the paper.
    95 HRC RS125 (track), 05 DL650 (street)

  19. #19
    jeero's Avatar
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    Re: No Ownership with Bike...So Now What?

    Quote Originally Posted by meester_jamie View Post
    you can enter the v i n here..
    http://www.cpic-cipc.ca/English/search.cfm
    Cool site, thanks for sharing.
    "It's only once you've lost everything that you're free to do anything." - Tyler Durden

    2005 SV650S : Mar 2011 - Oct 2011
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  20. #20
    djez's Avatar
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    Re: No Ownership with Bike...So Now What?

    Sorry for Hijacking this tread,I have an old bike which I imported from states, the frame was powder coated and the VIN (if there is a VIN) was powdercoated over. While checking the VIN at the border by US custom, they use the VIN as printed on the safety sticker.
    I can get UVIP no problem, but will this be a problem when I transfer the bike to another person?
    I can restamp it or try to sand off the powdercoat but dont really want to ruin the paint.

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