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View Full Version : Putting irreparable bike back on the road



darkav
09-25-2013, 09:01 PM
Maybe someone knows the answer here, it is a stupid question anyways:
Is there a legit way to put bike branded 'Irreparable' back on the road, without swapping the frame?

Maybe some sort of procedures or declare it as custom and go through ministry custom vehicle inspection?


EDIT:
Another options is, fit 9R engine in 6R frame, i already did measurements and stuff, and i do know where i need minor mods/bracket. Question #2 would be, how do i deal with something like this?


Thanks.

Brian P
09-25-2013, 09:03 PM
Can't be done. A vehicle with that VIN cannot be registered for the road ever again.

darkav
09-25-2013, 09:05 PM
Can't be done. A vehicle with that VIN cannot be registered for the road ever again.


I see.... what if i 'fit' the engine and the rest of the bike in same year ZX6 frame... do i have to declare it as custom? lol ;)

Aslan
09-25-2013, 09:39 PM
I see.... what if i 'fit' the engine and the rest of the bike in same year ZX6 frame... do i have to declare it as custom? lol ;)

Nope, then it's just the other bike, including whatever baggage comes with it's VIN.

Emefef
09-25-2013, 10:16 PM
... including whatever baggage comes with it's VIN.

Diplomacy at it's finest ;)

CanuckDuc
09-25-2013, 10:38 PM
Actually, I had my CBR re-branded. It was a bit of work and I had to have the insurance adjuster provide a statement that, under closer inspection, he should not have deemed it irreparable. I do recall the MTO telling me specifically that I had better not plan on making a habit of appealing.

Aslan
09-25-2013, 11:17 PM
Actually, I had my CBR re-branded. It was a bit of work and I had to have the insurance adjuster provide a statement that, under closer inspection, he should not have deemed it irreparable.

Interesting, so MTO (http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/dandv/vehicle/branding/faq.shtml) says Irreparable on a motorcycle means frame damage[1] but motorcycles are exempt from Salvage and Rebuilt brands under "the mandatory vehicle branding program"? So did it go right back to Brand None? Is this one of those funny government bits where there are non-mandatory versions too?


[1] or " has been stolen and dismantled such that the retail price for new parts of a like kind to replace those parts missing or damaged exceeds the fair labour cost to install or repair those parts." - HTA OR (http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/regs/english/elaws_regs_020376_e.htm)376/02 (http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/regs/english/elaws_regs_020376_e.htm)

hpvchewy
09-26-2013, 12:30 AM
Actually, I had my CBR re-branded. It was a bit of work and I had to have the insurance adjuster provide a statement that, under closer inspection, he should not have deemed it irreparable. I do recall the MTO telling me specifically that I had better not plan on making a habit of appealing.This. It can only be reversed by the person/company who branded it (or with a statement from them). My friend who crashed his ZX6R is going through the process right now. They originally branded it irreparable because they thought the frame was cracked, but it turned out that only the bracket for the frame slider was broken, not a scratch on the frame or swingarm. They said they need a written report from a licensed mechanic, then an adjuster from the insurance company will come out and verify it then they will unbrand it if in fact no frame damage.

-D-
09-26-2013, 12:44 AM
This. It can only be reversed by the person/company who branded it (or with a statement from them). My friend who crashed his ZX6R is going through the process right now. They originally branded it irreparable because they thought the frame was cracked, but it turned out that only the bracket for the frame slider was broken, not a scratch on the frame or swingarm. They said they need a written report from a licensed mechanic, then an adjuster from the insurance company will come out and verify it then they will unbrand it if in fact no frame damage.

So they did NOT require a licensed mechanic to brand the bike yet you need them to undo what the other person did?\
*tired now, that may not make sense to what I am trying to say.

hpvchewy
09-26-2013, 12:58 AM
So they did NOT require a licensed mechanic to brand the bike yet you need them to undo what the other person did?\
*tired now, that may not make sense to what I am trying to say.I think it's just so that they don't have to pay an adjuster to go out there for no reason, if the mechanic says it's good to go THEN they can send their guy out. My only thinking I guess, I'm sure they wouldn't take the bike owners word for it ;)

darkav
09-26-2013, 01:13 AM
Interesting, so MTO (http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/dandv/vehicle/branding/faq.shtml) says Irreparable on a motorcycle means frame damage[1] but motorcycles are exempt from Salvage and Rebuilt brands under "the mandatory vehicle branding program"? So did it go right back to Brand None? Is this one of those funny government bits where there are non-mandatory versions too?


[1] or " has been stolen and dismantled such that the retail price for new parts of a like kind to replace those parts missing or damaged exceeds the fair labour cost to install or repair those parts." - HTA OR (http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/regs/english/elaws_regs_020376_e.htm)376/02 (http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/regs/english/elaws_regs_020376_e.htm)


My 636 had a title = rebuilt.
Previous owner claimed fairing damage on the bike with insurance company, they swapped all his fairings and branded it 'rebuilt'

hpvchewy
09-26-2013, 01:46 AM
My 636 had a title = rebuilt.
Previous owner claimed fairing damage on the bike with insurance company, they swapped all his fairings and branded it 'rebuilt'Back in the day that would fly, but not anymore :(

jeffjones
09-26-2013, 08:13 AM
My 636 had a title = rebuilt.
Previous owner claimed fairing damage on the bike with insurance company, they swapped all his fairings and branded it 'rebuilt'

When mine got backed into, it was $4,700 damage (All cosmetic).
They told me they can write it off and brand it irrepairable or they can cut me a cheque for $3,700 and have no branding.

I have never heard of a mototrcycle being "rebuilt" sicne they changed the law in 07 or if it was in the states.

So the PO of your bike must have had that done before 2007.

darkav
09-26-2013, 08:34 AM
So the PO of your bike must have had that done before 2007.

Yes, following those online reports, the bike been in the accident in 05

viccont
09-26-2013, 09:42 AM
So they did NOT require a licensed mechanic to brand the bike yet you need them to undo what the other person did?\
*tired now, that may not make sense to what I am trying to say.

Licenced mechanic can only list the damage, brand is determined by insurance rep or a dealer. Once branded cant go back on road in ontario, therefore clean ownrship with frame swap is the only solution. There are couple of states that dont have branding system. I heard some shady individuals register titles in those states and bring them back as clean, although i dont advise this. I sell both bikes branded and clean, once deemed salvage will stay forever this way (apply only to north america). Allways google vin# and you will c.

darkav
09-26-2013, 01:34 PM
Ye, but what if I'm squeezing 9R engine in a 6R frame..... i just let insurance know its a 900cc engine or what?!?!?! ;D

darkav
09-26-2013, 03:48 PM
EDIT:
Another options is, fit 9R engine in 6R frame, i already did measurements and stuff, and i do know where i need minor mods/bracket. Question #2 would be, how do i deal with something like this?

CafeRay
09-26-2013, 04:15 PM
EDIT:
Another options is, fit 9R engine in 6R frame, i already did measurements and stuff, and i do know where i need minor mods/bracket. Question #2 would be, how do i deal with something like this?

Do you have a mechanical engineering degree? The 6R frame was designed specifically for the power output and weight of a 6R engine. Shoehorn a 9R into it and you get something either dangerous and/or of no value. Incredibly risky, will likely cost more than its worth to do it right.

darkav
09-26-2013, 05:21 PM
Do you have a mechanical engineering degree? The 6R frame was designed specifically for the power output and weight of a 6R engine. Shoehorn a 9R into it and you get something either dangerous and/or of no value. Incredibly risky, will likely cost more than its worth to do it right.

Actually, structural, metal frames and somewhat... finished electrical and robotics :)

P.s 9r engine is not that much havier.

P.s.s note: I'm asking about legit ways. I could always restamp it, and get some aluminum value from 6r frame. Just wanna see if anyone has better ideas :)

GreyGhost
09-26-2013, 06:04 PM
9r in 6r frame is likely uninsurable. That's not to say people don't do swaps (and forget to mention to the insurance company), but it wouldn't be worth it to me. If you happen to hit someone and they are looking at a huge payout, it wouldn't take much investigation on their part to figure out that you materially misrepresented your bike and your insurance is therefore invalid, say goodbye to everything you own.

Your best way forward has been suggested already. Buy a clean title bike and swap frames, or just track your branded bike.

darkav
09-26-2013, 06:11 PM
Ghost, that's why I'm also asking, do I need to declare it as custom and make sure its properly represented on paypers? Also, when u call insurance, you can tell them the custom CC of the bike...

Who remembers 7/11 gixer swaps??? Well, some ppl actually insured those as gsxr 1100 with 750 frame.

You guys are starting to miss the point.

And NO , I'm not gonna sell it , if it comes tothat, partout is my only option and I'm fully aware of it, wasn't born yesturday...

Brian P
09-26-2013, 07:00 PM
Even if the theoretical possibility exists of declaring your engine swap to the insurance company, the practical reality is that they will see your homegrown creation and refuse to insure it.

hpvchewy
09-27-2013, 05:55 PM
So they did NOT require a licensed mechanic to brand the bike yet you need them to undo what the other person did?\
*tired now, that may not make sense to what I am trying to say.Ok, got through the first step of the process today so here's all the correct info:

They DON'T need a mechanic to look at the bike, that's only for cars, not motorcycles!

Motorcycles require a physical inspection by the MTO enforcement group (vehicle branding division). Their phone number is 800-387-7736 (mostly just for my records, lol).

If you call the above number they will fax you the Application for Reclassification of a Vehicle Brand (also available for pickup from any Service Ontario if you want to wait 45 mins while they find it), also available for download from me here (warning, 17MB file): http://fu172.com/Application_for_Reclassification_of_a_Vehicle_Bran d.png (after my track day this weekend I'll probably convert it to a fill-out-able PDF file).

Fill out that form, include a story about why you think the current vehicle classification is wrong, photos, insurance repair estimate (in this case), mail it to the location listed on the form.

They will apparently contact you with a decision about coming out to inspect the motorcycle (or let you know they decided to throw your claim in the shredder and leave the branding as is).

I'll update this thread as the process continues :)

P.S. Some interesting reading:

Vehicle branding for noobs: http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/dandv/vehicle/branding/mandatory.shtml
More advanced topics: http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/dandv/vehicle/branding/faq.shtml

A total loss vehicle is a vehicle that has been damaged by collision, impact, fire or flood, or has been stolen and dismantled, such that the estimated cost of repairing it exceeds the difference between the fair market value of the vehicle immediately before it was damaged or stolen and its salvage value. "Salvage value" means the value of a damaged vehicle that is legitimately recoverable through commercial means of disposal.

Motorcycles are included under the "Irreparable" category where there is frame damage requiring replacement.

darkav
09-28-2013, 04:55 AM
Thanks hpvchewy, from reading all thi, it is much easier just replacing the frame, from my consideration ;)
Otherwise its gona be 200+ there and 200+ here and so on... and i can get the frame on ebay for 400 ;)

Great read tho!!!! Thanks again!