Back on the oil change question again

[mma01]

Just one more fact for conditioned changers to think about:

Unless you are taking the entire engine apart, you can never change all the oil in it at once. As much as 40% of old oil remains in, no matter how long you drain it (yes, even with filter change).

Ive read on the R1-forums of ppl putting their bikes into diagnostic mode, which prevents the bike from starting by disabling the fuel injectors, then hitting the starter button after removing the filter. This pumps out quite a bit of oil that wouldnt ordinarily come out from draining the oil pan alone.

[Vlad]

Ive read on the R1-forums of ppl putting their bikes into diagnostic mode, which prevents the bike from starting by disabling the fuel injectors, then hitting the starter button after removing the filter. This pumps out quite a bit of oil that wouldnt ordinarily come out from draining the oil pan alone.

It's fine if you are preparing to take the engine apart. Otherwise sounds like a good way to make sure the engine runs without oil for a while the next time it's started. Oil pumps are not designed to pump air. "Ppl" are unbelievably gullible and cannot think with their own head to save their life. Too bad they can't put their brains in "diagnostic mode".

[franz131]

Just one more fact for conditioned changers to think about:

Unless you are taking the entire engine apart, you can never change all the oil in it at once. As much as 40% of old oil remains in, no matter how long you drain it (yes, even with filter change).

Come to think of it, this is the reason pro "changing" the oil in the fall and again in the spring. That way you may actually change, what, 80%? Than again, why not just change it twice in the fall (or three times) to make sure it won't turn into yogurt by spring?

WOW
That is a whole lotta fertilizer right there.

Average UJM takes 3.8L of engine oil
40% of 3.8L = 1.52L
Sooooooooo Honda/Kawasaki/Suzuki/Yamaha put 5.32L into the new motor and then tell you to put 3.8L in the manual?
If I get my motor rebuilt from the crank up, I'll have to put over 5L when I re-fill it?
At worst, there may be 100 - 200cc of old engine oil left in nooks and crannies of the motor. That amound of old oil is easily absorbed and neutralized by the new oil.

I'm still shaking my head at that whopper.

[toybm]

WOW
That is a whole lotta fertilizer right there.

Average UJM takes 3.8L of engine oil
40% of 3.8L = 1.52L
Sooooooooo Honda/Kawasaki/Suzuki/Yamaha put 5.32L into the new motor and then tell you to put 3.8L in the manual?
If I get my motor rebuilt from the crank up, I'll have to put over 5L when I re-fill it?
At worst, there may be 100 - 200cc of old engine oil left in nooks and crannies of the motor. That amound of old oil is easily absorbed and neutralized by the new oil.

I'm still shaking my head at that whopper.

It's the internet.................anyone can say anything and call it fact

[caboose483]

It's the internet.................anyone can say anything and call it fact

I bet he got that off Wikipedia!

[Vlad]

WOW
That is a whole lotta fertilizer right there.

This is from my bike's manual. Its also written on it's crankcase and confirmed empirically:

Oil capacity:
Engine oil, without filter.............3.3L (3.5 US/2.9 /IMP Qt)
With filter.................................3.5L (3.7 US/3.1 /IMP Qt)
Engine overhaul........................4.6L (4.9 US/4.0 /IMP Qt)

Come back when you do the math.

[SweetOnion]

This is from my bike's manual. Its also written on it's crankcase and confirmed empirically:

Oil capacity:
Engine oil, without filter.............3.3L (3.5 US/2.9 /IMP Qt)
With filter.................................3.5L (3.7 US/3.1 /IMP Qt)
Engine overhaul........................4.6L (4.9 US/4.0 /IMP Qt)

Come back when you do the math.

No kidding eh.. that is a fair amount, I would not have suspected that much extra to be in there.. I wondered why even after an oil change it still looked sorta dirty through the site glass.

[Vlad]

No kidding eh.. that is a fair amount, I would not have suspected that much extra to be in there..

There's a lot of nooks, crannies, pockets, pipes/hoses, pumps, radiators, etc. where oil will be unable to drain from just by the help of gravity. Not all bikes are the same of course, but those capable of reading their manual and doing basic math (no InterWebS required for either) will easily find out the exact figures for their engine.

The point is, again, that "oil change" is actually more like "proportional oil replacement", or "partial oil refreshment", especially if you don't change the filter.

I wondered why even after an oil change it still looked sorta dirty through the site glass.

It doesn't really matter. What matters much more is how the old oil you drained looks, smells and feels. That part is much less of an exact science than simple subtraction and division, unless you send a sample to an oil testing facility.

Bottom line, use oil as per manufacturer's specifications, change it per manufacturer's recommendations and your engine will likely outlive you. Leave money wasting, environment polluting and myth propagating to those who think they know better.

[mobius]

an owners manual is like a bible.

[georgy]

some people must feel really stupid right now

[Fiery254]

There's a lot of nooks, crannies, pockets, pipes/hoses, pumps, radiators, etc. where oil will be unable to drain from just by the help of gravity. Not all bikes are the same of course, but those capable of reading their manual and doing basic math (no InterWebS required for either) will easily find out the exact figures for their engine.

The point is, again, that "oil change" is actually more like "proportional oil replacement", or "partial oil refreshment", especially if you don't change the filter.



It doesn't really matter. What matters much more is how the old oil you drained looks, smells and feels. That part is much less of an exact science than simple subtraction and division, unless you send a sample to an oil testing facility.

Bottom line, use oil as per manufacturer's specifications, change it per manufacturer's recommendations and your engine will likely outlive you. Leave money wasting, environment polluting and myth propagating to those who think they know better.

You sound like a teacher the way you talk down to people. Have everyone of your 3,800 + posts been thread killers?

[Vlad]

You sound like a teacher the way you talk down to people.

Some people deserve to be talked down to. However, they at least stayed on topic to merit a critical response, which can't be said about your post.

Have everyone of your 3,800 + posts been thread killers?

Are all of your 300+ posts off-topic and "ad hominem" like this one?

To add some value:

It may be a good idea to crank the engine every once in a while (just for a few revolutions and without starting), especially during long storage. That circulates the oil a bit and releases (more accurately "evens out") the pressure on valve springs. I really don't know how important this is for modern engines (titanium springs, desmodromic or hydraulically actuated valves, etc.), but I don't see how it can hurt. Just another harmless ritual to keep us busy over the winter and a reason to check on the bike and confirm the battery is still alive.

Speaking of the battery, I see no reason to take a modern maintenance-free one out of the bike if you can plug it into a trickle charger where the bike is stored. Mine is over eight years old and has never been out of the bike. If you do take it out for whatever reason, do not store it at room temperature and/or without a trickle charger (battery tender). 20 degrees plus no charging for a couple of months is a pretty sure way to kill a lead-acid battery. A healthy and fully charged battery will remain that way if stored in a freezer for months. Self-discharge and sulfation is what kills them and they are both much slower at lower temperatures. And no, it won't freeze if it's any good and properly charged (empirically proven with several different lead-acid batteries).