Proposal to end traffic congestion on the DVP

[Rob MacLennan]

And all the people who bring jobs into town, spend their money in town, buy their lunch in town....... As I have said before, doing so would be the death knell of the downtown core. Businesses would have far less reason to stay.

Toronto has artificially low property taxes, when compared to the surrounding areas, and it's simply time that it raised them appropriately.

[AdRath]

Most of the people who drive into the city aren't businesses they are employees who need to drive for their job. A few dollars here and there isn't going to stop them from going to work. It might make them think twice about taking transit or car pooling which is the point.

I'd have no problem paying a little more property tax if the money went to developing the modern infrastructure that many places outside the GTA have. Toronto is going bankrupt its no secret.

But of course we also pay a lot more to register a vehicle here. Increase everyone elses to match that also?

[Rob MacLennan]

I can tell you that it would seriously make me reconsider working in this city.

[AdRath]

I can tell you that it would seriously make me reconsider working in this city.

No more than the city of Toronto having us pay more to plate a car in Toronto has stopped people from living here. It forces people to maybe think about taking the gas guzzler solo downtown.

Would you really quit your job over paying a few extra dollars a month to drive into work? I'm sure there are many people who would gladly take over your position working downtown.

[Pocket Sprocket]

It occurred to me that its likely the case that most of the people clogging up the DVP during morning and afternoon rush hour don't reside with the city of Toronto and therefore aren't paying property or many other municipal taxes to the City of Toronto.

My proposal, since the DVP is a city run highway, is to tax anyone who doesn't live/have their car registered in Toronto $5 or so for entering the DVP from 7-9am or exiting from 4-6pm, from lets say the 401 to the next 3 or 4 most southern on/off-ramps. The whole thing would be reversed in the afternoon. Revenues could go to the TTC, or road maintenance. Do it with the camera system they have on the 407.

This will be easy to pass politically since anyone affected by the tax won't be voting in any Toronto election and those that will vote will enjoy a quieter DVP and increased revenues. It will generate revenue that could go to the DVP or other roads, or the TTC and it will reduce congestion by encouraging people to take the train.

Thoughts?

London has a congestion tax.
I hate this idea. Bad idea!

What they should do is make every road like a giant conveyer belt. You enter the giant conveyer belt as soon as you leave your driveway, and set the destination. It's like a giant train or personal hubs (cars).
Since the speeding problem is the difference in speed, we can all travel remarkeably faster attached as a part of this 'belt' which is consistent and safe.
You know how the car wash pulls your car through, or the classic cars at Wonderland work, well maybe it could be something like one of those.
things that make you go hmmm.

computers could know when lane changes are safe, lights would be history, for sure roundabouts are the way to go. what else could make this awesome??

[k2p2]

Thats funny
not to be demeaning " Enjoy a quicker DVP" ? so your saying after the people who use the DVP to commute downtown stop driving then the people who live downtown can get on the DPV and do a couple of circles and then go to work ?

[Rob MacLennan]

No more than the city of Toronto having us pay more to plate a car in Toronto has stopped people from living here. It forces people to maybe think about taking the gas guzzler solo downtown.

Would you really quit your job over paying a few extra dollars a month to drive into work? I'm sure there are many people who would gladly take over your position working downtown.

I already got rid of my gas guzzler. I drive almost 50 Kms, each way, to get to work and it's as cheap and faster to drive in, than it is to take mass transit. It's all a numbers game. If I could make as much to work closer to home as my pay, minus transportation costs works out to in downtown Toronto, then I'd be a fool to keep working in the core. I like my job, but I think that I'd like an extra hour to relax at home after work more.

London has a congestion tax.
I hate this idea. Bad idea!

Motorcycles are exempt.

[mat2312]

No more than the city of Toronto having us pay more to plate a car in Toronto has stopped people from living here. It forces people to maybe think about taking the gas guzzler solo downtown.

Would you really quit your job over paying a few extra dollars a month to drive into work? I'm sure there are many people who would gladly take over your position working downtown.

I'm a shining example of the person you want to tax. I don't make a great deal of money, I NEED my vehicle for the line of work I do. There is absolutely no way I can take transit to my job.

If a tax like this was implimented, I just would use the side streets to make my way up to the provincially owned 401. The road congestion would be insane.


oh ya, enjoy staying in the city because the moment you step onto a side street in Durham/Peel/Halton etc. we'll return the favour with a tax.


I'm not sure what you seek to gain by taxing people who bring money and economy into the city, the issue isn't the number of cars on the road. It's the infrastructure AND the efficiency/effectiveness of the transit system. Lets face it, the GO system and TTC just isn't practical for the average person.

[AdRath]

I already got rid of my gas guzzler. I drive almost 50 Kms, each way, to get to work and it's as cheap and faster to drive in, than it is to take mass transit. It's all a numbers game. If I could make as much to work closer to home as my pay, minus transportation costs works out to in downtown Toronto, then I'd be a fool to keep working in the core. I like my job, but I think that I'd like an extra hour to relax at home after work more.



Motorcycles are exempt.

The problem is congestion and pollution. Until more people start using public transit the system will never evolve. Obviously at some point there is too much traffic for the infrastructure and we have almost reached that point. The Don Valley Parking lot is a fine example.

Should we just build more roads making it easier for people to drive more cars or should we encourage public transit and vehicles with a small footprint to be used?

I know which choice I think is right, you might not agree but we can't just keep adding more cars and more roads we need to relieve congestion. Small vehicles would be exempt from tolls.

[AdRath]

I'm a shining example of the person you want to tax. I don't make a great deal of money, I NEED my vehicle for the line of work I do. There is absolutely no way I can take transit to my job.

If a tax like this was implimented, I just would use the side streets to make my way up to the provincially owned 401. The road congestion would be insane.


oh ya, enjoy staying in the city because the moment you step onto a side street in Durham/Peel/Halton etc. we'll return the favour with a tax.


I'm not sure what you seek to gain by taxing people who bring money and economy into the city, the issue isn't the number of cars on the road. It's the infrastructure AND the efficiency/effectiveness of the transit system. Lets face it, the GO system and TTC just isn't practical for the average person.

We need to use the money collected to fund a better public transit system. Transit funding needs to be found and Toronto is Broke. You won't see better public transit till it benefits people to take it.

I'm sure if businesses can come up with a compromise or a flat lower rate. When gas prices rise most businesses pass the cost or part of it on to their customer. Prices rise all the time for various reasons in products and services. Sure people might ***** for a bit but they would get used to it.

The average person wouldn't stop coming to Toronto cause it costs $0.75 but over the volume of traffic the money adds up and serves to better public transit which those disuaded to drive will take and start to get involved. People need a kick in the ***.

For the rare times that I do go to friends houses in a neighbouring city I would have no problem paying $0.50-$0.75 to keep the roads and transit in that town decent.

People want less tax but then expect the infrastructure, transit to be top notch. That stuff is expensive and has to be paid for somewhere. There is just not currently enough money floating around. Like I said I would have no problem with a tax increase on my property taxes if it means the infrastructure of Toronto gets better. Of course there lies a problem is that I can't stand the Mayor of Toronto and his waste of cash. Damn bloated Unions.

[Rob MacLennan]

The problem is congestion and pollution. Until more people start using public transit the system will never evolve. Obviously at some point there is too much traffic for the infrastructure and we have almost reached that point. The Don Valley Parking lot is a fine example.

Should we just build more roads making it easier for people to drive more cars or should we encourage public transit and vehicles with a small footprint to be used?

I know which choice I think is right, you might not agree but we can't just keep adding more cars and more roads we need to relieve congestion. Small vehicles would be exempt from tolls.

Compare the area covered by the London transit system or the New York City rail system, and their costs, then take a look at Toronto. You'll see why people don't use transit.

[ZX600]

Ajax and Vaughan don't own those roads the province on Ontario does so no need to worry about that. Toronto Owns the DVP and Gardiner which is why they are 90km/h and not 100km/h zones.

We in Toronto have to pay more to register a vehicle than anyone from outside. I'd love to get some value out of it.

I'm all in favour of making toll roads for out of town drivers. All the people come into the city and use the resources but don't pay a lick of tax to support the infrustructure they burden.

I was using Ajax and Vaughan as an example, I know each city doesn't own their piece of the 401, just clarifying.

[Gnu]

We in Toronto have to pay more to register a vehicle than anyone from outside. I'd love to get some value out of it.

I'm all in favour of making toll roads for out of town drivers. All the people come into the city and use the resources but don't pay a lick of tax to support the infrustructure they burden.

So all the out of towners should have to pay because the people of Toronto are ****ing idiots who voted Miller in and ****** away all of TOs money? Great plan. You obviously are on Miller's staff.

[mat2312]

So all the out of towners should have to pay because the people of Toronto are ****ing idiots who voted Miller in and ****** away all of TOs money? Great plan. You obviously are on Miller's staff.

I think it's more that people like Adrath are frustrated with the incompetence at City Hall and the traffic nightmare the city has. There is no light at the end of the tunnel, the population of Toronto keeps growing and the roads stay the same.


The reason Toronto is broke however is not revenue in, it's what they're spending it on and unions aren't to blame.

[Rob MacLennan]

I think it's more that people like Adrath are frustrated with the incompetence at City Hall and the traffic nightmare the city has. There is no light at the end of the tunnel, the population of Toronto keeps growing and the roads stay the same.

The reason Toronto is broke however is not revenue in, it's what they're spending it on and unions aren't to blame.

That's a very narrow view, but not exactly atypical. I'm guessing that you listen to a fair bit of talk radio. Likely Bill Carroll.

The situation in Toronto has been decades in the making. Infrastructure has been permitted to decay, to the point of virtual collapse. Transit isn't supported in a reasonable fashion, and hasn't been since I was in college. That's a while ago, in case you're wondering. Property taxes haven't gone up substantially in... how long? You need money in order to support infrastructure. Sure, they shouldn't be blowing $5M on buildings that they don't need, but they've also had to sell off assets in order to pay the bills over the last few years.

[dankyyz]

Or increase the density of the city core (which is exactly what the province intends to do) and dissuade people from buying more cars. Which will increase usership of public transit, which would lead to proper funding for it, and make it easier to move around....

Start charging people a substantial amount just to enter the city and you'll find businesses will move to Vaughan, and Mississauga. The core of the city would die.

[dankyyz]

Someone is taking Dankyyz sarcasm lessons. LOL. Nice work.

That's a very narrow very, but not exactly atypical. I'm guessing that you listen to a fair bit of talk radio. Likely Bill Carroll.

The situation in Toronto has been decades in the making. Infrastructure has been permitted to decay, to the point of virtual collapse. Transit isn't supported in a reasonable fashion, and hasn't been since I was in college. That's a while ago, in case you're wondering. Property taxes haven't gone up substantially in... how long? You need money in order to support infrastructure. Sure, they shouldn't be blowing $5M on buildings that they don't need, but they've also had to sell off assets in order to pay the bills over the last few years.

[dankyyz]

So you dont agree at all with the idea that people who dont pay for something, should be allowed to clog it every day (one rider in each car, no car pooling) without paying?

Regardless of how "we" are dealing with things, how do you get something for nothing?

So all the out of towners should have to pay because the people of Toronto are ****ing idiots who voted Miller in and ****** away all of TOs money? Great plan. You obviously are on Miller's staff.

[ddusseld]

There are a myriad of issues with regard to traffic in Toronto and/or the GTA. Traffic is as bad in the burbs as in the core. Just come to Mississauga/Brampton and go for a drive. It is insane. There is a catch 22. The transit system sucks. To fix the transit system requires a lot of money. But, since the system sucks you can't get more riders or more money so it continues to suck. Where I live in Mississauga the GO trains only run during rush hour and actually start running after I get to work. The cost of taking the GO and the subway is way more then me riding the bike and a bit more then driving the car. Makes no sense to take transit for me. I'd spend more and take more time.

What we as a society need to do is look at many alternatives. Working from at home can be done by many people yet is often not an option. I suspect we could reduce the number of commuters by 20-30% just by letting people who can work from home actually work from home. But, many companies are loath to let this happen.

Living closer to work. A great option but how can it be implemented? I'd love to live a 5-10 minute walk from work but simply can't afford to buy a house even close to equivalent to the house I have in the 'burbs.

People will continue to commute in their cars as long as the cost and time are any where close to transit. And who can blame them?

Oh yeah, If you think Rob would not quit a job over a highway toll if he thought the toll was wrong then you don't know him...

No more than the city of Toronto having us pay more to plate a car in Toronto has stopped people from living here. It forces people to maybe think about taking the gas guzzler solo downtown.

Would you really quit your job over paying a few extra dollars a month to drive into work? I'm sure there are many people who would gladly take over your position working downtown.

[suprPHREAK]

I don't mind this idea. I use Don Mills anyway.