Cop almost killed my friend and his passanger today

[ZX600]

Since no one even got a scratch on them, how can this be "he almost killed me"? Talk about drama queens. And 82Seca750, you say to give them a taste of what they started, that is exactly what the OP got, thanks to the morons that have decided to run instead of acting in a responsible manner. The bike was cut off to prevent escape, he was not knocked off the bike, was not hit, hell was not even made to drop the bike.

Funny how you can see why people run, but cannot see why the police now take actions to prevent that from happening.

The passenger had to put her foot on the ground in order for her not to fall - I will say that in this case there is no crying baby theory going on here. It was a very closed call and the officer acted in a negligent manner.

So far except for one occasion (in my car), cops have been pretty good to me, I will not run and they appreciate it, the last one told me that since I was a decent guy and I stopped he was going to reduce the ticket, I was at fault so I appreciated it. however there are some idiot cops out there with a chip on their shoulders, in this case, they should make a point of escalating to their superior officer and the MPP.

[FiReSTaRT]

That's the problem with today's policing. Too many constables assume that you're guilty until proven innocent. Just because I'm on a bike doesn't mean that I'm a criminal.

[moto22]

Since no one even got a scratch on them, how can this be "he almost killed me"? Talk about drama queens. And 82Seca750, you say to give them a taste of what they started, that is exactly what the OP got, thanks to the morons that have decided to run instead of acting in a responsible manner. The bike was cut off to prevent escape, he was not knocked off the bike, was not hit, hell was not even made to drop the bike.

Funny how you can see why people run, but cannot see why the police now take actions to prevent that from happening.

Like how do you figure ,the guy had too take evasive maneuvers too avoid being hit and almost dumped his passenger in the process and thats ok because other riders ran from the cops, "are you for real buddy" give your head a shake or two before you post anymore nonsense like that .......

[Rob MacLennan]

That's the problem with today's policing. Too many constables assume that you're guilty until proven innocent. Just because I'm on a bike doesn't mean that I'm a criminal.

Unfortunately too many people on boards like this one talk about how they will never stop for police which makes them, in turn, expect that many of us will run. You'll note that I moved a post out of here that discussed the subject of running. I might as easily have deleted it, as discussion about actively breaking the law does not belong in this forum.

While this gives reason for police to expect us to break the law, it does not support the use of force when the law has not been proken.

[Hawk361]

Unfortunately too many people on boards like this one talk about how they will never stop for police which makes them, in turn, expect that many of us will run. You'll note that I moved a post out of here that discussed the subject of running. I might as easily have deleted it, as discussion about actively breaking the law does not belong in this forum.

While this gives reason for police to expect us to break the law, it does not support the use of force when the law has not been proken.

I think the officer was probably s****ing himself. Didn't realise how dangerous his manoeuvre was for the rider and passenger till it was too late. No excuse I know!! But all he could do was stay calm to prevent the incident from escalating. Looks like he did that... As far as the law is concerned, below is what the OHTA says. If the plate was obstructed then he had reason to pull rider over.

From the taped conversation, it's also not clear if rider 1 had proper proof of insurance?!!!

BTW. I'm no expert, but the the taped conversation may not be admissible in court....

Bottom line is the officer messed up. It's worth a complaint to see where it goes....

13. (1) No number other than that upon the number plate furnished by the Ministry shall be exposed on any part of a motor vehicle or trailer in such a position or manner as to confuse the identity of the number plate. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 13 (1).
Number plate to be kept clean
(2) Every number plate shall be kept free from dirt and obstruction and shall be affixed so that the entire number plate, including the numbers, is plainly visible at all times, and the view of the number plate shall not be obscured or obstructed by spare tires, bumper bars, any part of the vehicle, any attachments to the vehicle or the load carried. 1994, c. 27, s. 138 (7).
Obstruction prohibited
(3) The number plates shall not be obstructed by any device that prevents the entire number plates including the numbers from being accurately photographed using a photo-radar system. 1993, c. 31, s. 2 (5).
Same
(3.0.1) The number plates shall not be obstructed by any device that prevents the entire number plates including the numbers from being accurately photographed using a red light camera system. 1998, c. 38, s. 2 (1).
Same
(3.1) The number plates shall not be obstructed by any device or material that prevents the entire number plates including the numbers from being identified by an electronic toll system. 1996, c. 1, Sched. E, s. 2 (1).
Offence
(4) Every person who contravenes subsection (2), (3), (3.0.1) or (3.1) is guilty of an offence. 1993, c. 31, s. 2 (5); 1996, c. 1, Sched. E, s. 2 (2); 1998, c. 38, s. 2 (2).

[bear22099]

Like how do you figure ,the guy had too take evasive maneuvers too avoid being hit and almost dumped his passenger in the process and thats ok because other riders ran from the cops, "are you for real buddy" give your head a shake or two before you post anymore nonsense like that .......

Funny, I ask the same "are you for real buddy" question to those that just cannot grasp the idea that "almost killed me" should require at least a scratch. Having to catch your balance is not even close to almost killed me. If it were, you know how many times my cat has almost killed me by simply crossing my path in the hallway? You need to step back from the lynch mob and develop some of your own opinions.

[FiReSTaRT]

Bear, if I fired a gun at a cop and missed, would i still be charged with attempted murder?

[usdm_b18]

Funny, I ask the same "are you for real buddy" question to those that just cannot grasp the idea that "almost killed me" should require at least a scratch. Having to catch your balance is not even close to almost killed me. If it were, you know how many times my cat has almost killed me by simply crossing my path in the hallway? You need to step back from the lynch mob and develop some of your own opinions.

I'm going to have to disagree -- there are a lot of things out there that can almost kill you eg: narrowly avoiding hitting a guardrail when traveling at 100km/h will not leave any marks, however the alternative is pretty catastrophic.

[bear22099]

Bear, if I fired a gun at a cop and missed, would i still be charged with attempted murder?

Are you actually going to compare taking a shot at a cop with a gun (and that clearly only shows one intent) to a cop taking away an escape route, without showing any intent for injury? If the cop had of rammed the bike that is one thing, he simply took away an escape route, and did is such a manner that the bike did not even fall over. Oh, sorry, forgot the passenger had to put her foot down to catch her balance. I would expect the rider also had to put his foot down as well at one point.

This thread's topic was blown out of proportion (the almost killed me part) just to incite some reactions. Those that are easily led fell for it hook line and sinker.

[adri]

This recording should be given to the media.

+1.

[bear22099]

I'm going to have to disagree -- there are a lot of things out there that can almost kill you eg: narrowly avoiding hitting a guardrail when traveling at 100km/h will not leave any marks, however the alternative is pretty catastrophic.

Narrowly avoiding anything does not almost kill you. It actually does nothing to you, save for the mark in your shorts. By your logic, living almost kills you. Does that not remove all meaning from the phrase then?

[moto22]

Funny, I ask the same "are you for real buddy" question to those that just cannot grasp the idea that "almost killed me" should require at least a scratch. Having to catch your balance is not even close to almost killed me. If it were, you know how many times my cat has almost killed me by simply crossing my path in the hallway? You need to step back from the lynch mob and develop some of your own opinions.

You comparing a cat crossing your path too car travelling at highway speed cutting off a motorcycle and causing the rider too loose his balance and possibly crash his bike and because he was lucky and that didn't happen "no big deal wow! im lost for words on how ignorant that sounds and that"s is my opinion buddy!........

[KrazyBones]

the cop is lucky that the guy has been riding for 5 years and knows what he is doing. I bet if he did crash the cop would somehow charge him and try to blame the incident on him.

[Rob MacLennan]

I think the officer was probably s****ing himself. Didn't realise how dangerous his manoeuvre was for the rider and passenger till it was too late. No excuse I know!! But all he could do was stay calm to prevent the incident from escalating. Looks like he did that... As far as the law is concerned, below is what the OHTA says. If the plate was obstructed then he had reason to pull rider over.

From the taped conversation, it's also not clear if rider 1 had proper proof of insurance?!!!

BTW. I'm no expert, but the the taped conversation may not be admissible in court....

Bottom line is the officer messed up. It's worth a complaint to see where it goes....

13. (1) No number other than that upon the number plate furnished by the Ministry shall be exposed on any part of a motor vehicle or trailer in such a position or manner as to confuse the identity of the number plate. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 13 (1).
Number plate to be kept clean
(2) Every number plate shall be kept free from dirt and obstruction and shall be affixed so that the entire number plate, including the numbers, is plainly visible at all times, and the view of the number plate shall not be obscured or obstructed by spare tires, bumper bars, any part of the vehicle, any attachments to the vehicle or the load carried. 1994, c. 27, s. 138 (7).
Obstruction prohibited
(3) The number plates shall not be obstructed by any device that prevents the entire number plates including the numbers from being accurately photographed using a photo-radar system. 1993, c. 31, s. 2 (5).
Same
(3.0.1) The number plates shall not be obstructed by any device that prevents the entire number plates including the numbers from being accurately photographed using a red light camera system. 1998, c. 38, s. 2 (1).
Same
(3.1) The number plates shall not be obstructed by any device or material that prevents the entire number plates including the numbers from being identified by an electronic toll system. 1996, c. 1, Sched. E, s. 2 (1).
Offence
(4) Every person who contravenes subsection (2), (3), (3.0.1) or (3.1) is guilty of an offence. 1993, c. 31, s. 2 (5); 1996, c. 1, Sched. E, s. 2 (2); 1998, c. 38, s. 2 (2).

No need to quote the HTA to me on that account. I think that the people who move their plate hangers and install fender eliminators are just begging to be pulled over, by bringing extra attention to themselves. Almost doing a bank shot with a rider isn't justified for a simple equipment stop though.

Funny, I ask the same "are you for real buddy" question to those that just cannot grasp the idea that "almost killed me" should require at least a scratch. Having to catch your balance is not even close to almost killed me. If it were, you know how many times my cat has almost killed me by simply crossing my path in the hallway? You need to step back from the lynch mob and develop some of your own opinions.

A skid full of boxes once fell from the top rack in a warehouse and crashed to the ground two feet behind me. A RCMP vehicle blew through a crosswalk that I was in the middle of when I worked at the airport. I think that there were 6 inches separating my toes from the car's tires.

So I wasn't almost killed in either of those incidents?

[shah]

I think bear22099 is a cop in disguise

[bear22099]

You comparing a cat crossing your path too car travelling at highway speed cutting off a motorcycle and causing the rider too loose his balance and possibly crash his bike and because he was lucky and that didn't happen "no big deal wow! im lost for words on how ignorant that sounds and that"s is my opinion buddy!........

Where does it say anything about highway speeds? Or are you just adding something to the story to make it more "outrageous" to fire more people up? Was the "almost killed my friend" just not doing it anymore?

[bear22099]

I think bear22099 is a cop in disguise

Not even close, I am just a normal person that is not easily led astray by stories with fanciful headlines.

[FiReSTaRT]

Are you actually going to compare taking a shot at a cop with a gun (and that clearly only shows one intent) to a cop taking away an escape route, without showing any intent for injury? If the cop had of rammed the bike that is one thing, he simply took away an escape route, and did is such a manner that the bike did not even fall over. Oh, sorry, forgot the passenger had to put her foot down to catch her balance. I would expect the rider also had to put his foot down as well at one point.

This thread's topic was blown out of proportion (the almost killed me part) just to incite some reactions. Those that are easily led fell for it hook line and sinker.

The cop took dangerous action that almost killed a rider and his passenger. It was not accidental. The cop deliberately did it. To me that indicates both actus reus and mens rea.
The rider never indicated that he was going to run from the police. The cop made a dumb assumption based on the rider's legal mode of transportation and took unnecessary action that endangered two lives. It would have been different had the cop recognized a bike that previously took off from him.

[Kokla]

If only you had proof that he caused you to swerve in such a fashion...

The man is a cop. Way more bikers run from cops than anybody else, on anything else. A cop calling in "I was going to pull over a plate violation, but he ran and I couldn't catch him". That's really going to let to cop down, knowing its his JOB to uphold the law, its what provides for them and possiblely their familes and some idiot biker runs from them. Even with the fewer number of bikes on the road, I'm sure more bikes run than cars.

If they don't have to, why give anyone a chance to run. If he was planning on pulling you over, thats the only way to do it really. If he gave you alot of space, enough that it wouldn't make you hesitate and lose balence, chances are they could run.

[omnivore]

Bear and Kokla. Give your head a shake.

Trying to justify the cop's actions would be equivalent to trying to justify a cop, who would simply like to question a person, cuffing and subduing a visible minority just because he has seen, in the past, people of the same ethnic persuasion get violent or flee in the face of being questioned.

No one would ever accept that type of profiling, but if your'e on a bike, it's okay to box you into a gurdrail while stillin motion? Is that how they pull over oldladies driving Lincolns too?