Sigh, battery issues again

[JFD]

Ok, so I folllowed the Electrosport troubleshooting guide
http://www.electrosport.com/technica...ding-guide.php

Here's my results:

Multimeter at DCV - tested the battery terminals, revved to 2500rpm - 12.84

Engine idling, black multimeter to battery +ve, red multimeter to red output wire (2 of them) from the rectifier - 0.06-0.07

Red multimeter to battery -ve. Black multimeter to green output wire (2 of them) from rectifier. ilding - 0.10-0.13

Engine stopped - Need to test resistance at the lowest range - unsure about the ranges on my meter so I'll note my settings.
resistance measured between all three wires from the stator - @20M - 0.00 across all wires. @200 - 0.6 across all.

One multimeter lead to the yellow of the stator, the other multimeter to the engine case - 0.01 @ 20M (on the meter). (now, the fact I'm unsure about my meter setting becomes irrelevant really given the next test result)

Multimeter to ACV, 200 range. Test connection between two yellows from the stator at a time - should be equal according to test.
62.2 (two outer)
17.x (center to right)
17.x (center to left)

So if the diagram and my readings are true, then signs point to the stator....

[djltoronto]

Multimeter to ACV, 200 range. Test connection between two yellows from the stator at a time - should be equal according to test.
62.2 (two outer)
17.x (center to right)
17.x (center to left)

So if the diagram and my readings are true, then signs point to the stator....

you sure it said to test the connections BETWEEN 2 yellows?

*Edit, just read what you read.. and it seems you read it correct.

[Car2Slo]

3 things to check, a) battery, b) stator, c) rectifier.

If you've done all the above then next is wiring.

On GSXR's (or was it R6) there was a notorious overheating of wiring connecting to the rectifier problem. If you have a similar issue, then maybe the wires are contacting but causing too much resistance, or bouncing connections and not continuosly charging.

Look for burn marks on your wiring, as it maybe providing some voltage to charge but not enough to keep you going for long time.

JFD, give me a buzz and I'll ride up to your place to double check the problem.

[GP_RZ]

JFD do you clean the ground points...one on starter and the one behind the rear shock clean good and apply some greese over them.....929 will drive you nuts....knock on wood mine has been running great since late last season up till now i idle at 13.6v and rev 14.5v get yourseld a decent mosfet regulator very easy to do runs way cooler then the stock honda old school shunt type....and why they placed it where they did with no air flow is beyond me......there is allso a junction of grounds in the wire harness on the right hand side near the tank you will feel the big lump in the harnes these are know to carode on the gems.....I took mine all apart and soldired each one and wrapped it back up, been awsome so far....fireblades.org is where you want to get info on this......good luck

[JFD]

JFD do you clean the ground points...one on starter and the one behind the rear shock clean good and apply some greese over them.....929 will drive you nuts....knock on wood mine has been running great since late last season up till now i idle at 13.6v and rev 14.5v get yourseld a decent mosfet regulator very easy to do runs way cooler then the stock honda old school shunt type....and why they placed it where they did with no air flow is beyond me......there is allso a junction of grounds in the wire harness on the right hand side near the tank you will feel the big lump in the harnes these are know to carode on the gems.....I took mine all apart and soldired each one and wrapped it back up, been awsome so far....fireblades.org is where you want to get info on this......good luck

never have...

I'm going to google the points you're referring to now...

[GP_RZ]

here is the ground conection in the wire harness on the 929 that can cause problems. and there are also 2 other grounding pionts on the 929 that should be taken care of (cleaned) and HIGHLY recommend a mosfet regulator!

http://www.fireblades.org/forums/hon...ught-them.html

[JFD]

Alright so I went to check the harness, just to see it's condition.

I have no clue how guys got to theirs but it's a pain in the arse. The injectors are in the way for the most part (fuel line).

In any case, I did manage to get the orange brick out and it's pristine.


the stator I ordered arrived today so i popped the cover off and the old one looks like i had barbecued some hamburgers on it the day before...charred stuff over some of the winds.

I simply removed the cover and took the pics. I haven't installed the new one yet cuz I didn't feel like doing more right now. I'll do more tomorrow night.

Anyhow, just a status update.

GP, you got a pic of the ground behind the shock? I was looking around and couldn't make anything out, wondering if I was looking in the right place...

[GP_RZ]

James, i will get a pic tonight when i get home...yeah that block looked good on mine as well, will get some pics though for you!

[GP_RZ]

here u go James...sorry its just above the top rear shock mount....will see the green wires...sand this connection to clean and apply some grease also do the same on the negative ground to the starter motor...if your going to leave that junction block spray some contact cleaner in it an reassemble.

[mike.from.canmore]

if your going to leave that junction block spray some contact cleaner in it an reassemble.

Me thinks dielectric grease would be better than contact cleaner before assembly!

[GP_RZ]

sure would but contact cleaner before grease and ur all good to go.

Me thinks dielectric grease would be better than contact cleaner before assembly!

[JFD]

Cleaned the contacts in the block, threw d-elec grease on it, and sealed it back up with fresh elec tape.

Found the contact behind the shock, was pretty decent, but sprayed it down, and greased it up as well.

Markham Outdoor power should have a new stator gasket for me on mon or tues, so will complete my assembly then, and hope for the best.

GP, will pm you about finding a mosfet RR.

[baked]

Did you ride in traffic, stop and go just before parking? The bike needs to rev to ~3k RPM before it will start charging, under that and it drains the battery. If you were stop and go for more then a few minutes that may be a problem.

I've got a voltmeter you can borrow. Start with checking voltage on bike before starting, idle and revving above 3K.

Voltage should be 11.5-13v before, 12-13.5 during idle and 13.5-14.5v while reving. Give or take.

If outside of this range can narrow down if there is a charging failure.

Possible failures;

- fuse
- battery
- voltage regulator
- stator / charging coil
- connectors to above.

My 2002 F4I @ 1200 rpm charges@ 14.3volts
your regulator will probably be the problem.

[baked]

You know what's funny? No, it's not solved!
There's a troubleshooting pdf in the rm stator thread, which i used to test out the system.

Everything pointed towards the battery!

Coincidentally, I have 3 rectifiers, which i thought were dead, but they all test the same across the board. So they're all good. Lovely.

Anyhow, i bought a new battery, installed. Sounded great. Cranked very quickly and I rode for three days with no issue. Fourth day, I noticed that it cranked a little slower than the first day. Rode to a gas station, and sure enough it wouldn't fire up after filling.

Bump started fine, and rode home..the guages stayed on, so not the same as before.

SO now, i'm trying to figure this out in my head.

On the ride home, the stator would send a charge through the rectifier which tells the system if my battery actually needs the charge (simple terms), no?

So when i get home, the battery SHOULD be charged if the rectifier is working.

So two choices here.
Replace stator. (where is a decent place to buy this?) - easy to install
Examine all wiring to see if there's a break in the housing causing it to ground itself. - lenghty and painful diagnosis.

Thoughts?



GP, thanks for the offer dude...

How did you test the Reg./rectifiers??? Cause Honda has no test for an 02 Reg./rectifier?

[adamwest]

BTW... I had same issues on new used bike and one should consider that all the major components (i.e. batt, stat, reg/rect, wiring) all must be in harmony. That is to say, that if your stator is shot, then you're going down the road of needing new reg/rect & batt. & possible new wiring/connectors.

Yes, contact cleaner, and dielectric grease are your friends! only way to ensure good contacts is to measure resistance across the paths.

you should see near 14.5 volts while bike is rev'ing up near 2 - 3k. also, you can check resistance across the phases on a stator and should see about .5 - 1 ohms.

rmstator has a trouble-shooting guide up on their site. it's important to follow this exactly. that is, don't skip steps, because the order is logically arranged to eliminate the most likely issue down the the least likely. also, the most likely is usually the easiet/cheapest to fix.

http://www.rmstator.com/PDF/fault_finding.pdf

fyi.. i have rmstator in my honda, and although it is cheapest. well, it is cheapest. hahaha. which is to say, you get what you pay for. if you're experimenting with things, throw one in, but if you know you have a bad stator and you expect tight tolerances with long-term reliability, then go OEM.

i believe most issues start with a faulty connection point, which results in a high resistant point in the circuit, which leads to failed reg/rect, which leads to boiled over or dead battery and charred up stator. it could even cause fire. so be careful.

people. i know the service manual doesn't mention regular maintenance of the wiring, but i would suggest inspection of the various connection points and binding blocks for moisture and damage. clean and apply the dielectric grease to keep moisture out, and from causing high-resistive corrosion between the points.

cheers!

[JFD]

BTW... I had same issues on new used bike and one should consider that all the major components (i.e. batt, stat, reg/rect, wiring) all must be in harmony. That is to say, that if your stator is shot, then you're going down the road of needing new reg/rect & batt. & possible new wiring/connectors.

Yes, contact cleaner, and dielectric grease are your friends! only way to ensure good contacts is to measure resistance across the paths.

you should see near 14.5 volts while bike is rev'ing up near 2 - 3k. also, you can check resistance across the phases on a stator and should see about .5 - 1 ohms.

rmstator has a trouble-shooting guide up on their site. it's important to follow this exactly. that is, don't skip steps, because the order is logically arranged to eliminate the most likely issue down the the least likely. also, the most likely is usually the easiet/cheapest to fix.

http://www.rmstator.com/PDF/fault_finding.pdf

fyi.. i have rmstator in my honda, and although it is cheapest. well, it is cheapest. hahaha. which is to say, you get what you pay for. if you're experimenting with things, throw one in, but if you know you have a bad stator and you expect tight tolerances with long-term reliability, then go OEM.

i believe most issues start with a faulty connection point, which results in a high resistant point in the circuit, which leads to failed reg/rect, which leads to boiled over or dead battery and charred up stator. it could even cause fire. so be careful.

people. i know the service manual doesn't mention regular maintenance of the wiring, but i would suggest inspection of the various connection points and binding blocks for moisture and damage. clean and apply the dielectric grease to keep moisture out, and from causing high-resistive corrosion between the points.

cheers!

I followed the same flowchart.

Baked, check the above flowchart, it'll provide the test instructions.




Ok, so stator is installed...

One thing i love about working on a problem this long and frustrating is that you stop thinking quite often....like tonight.

I put the stator in, new gasket, started to bolt it in, and firstly, forgot to squeeze in some rtv.
Swing and a miss.

I figure I'd leave it for now. On go the bolts. Not thinking yet again as I tighten down the bolts.
Snap.
Damnit.
I'm able to extract the entire bolt...it cracked but was still intact.
Juuuuuust a bit outside. Count is 1-1.

Onto tighten the others. (have you guys seen my error yet?)

Snap.
Damnit. This one finds me not so lucky. the head snaps off and the rest of the bolt is snugly inside. Slap my head for not using my torque wrench.
Swings, nobody home. Count is 1-2.

I press on to test. Bike is now assembled. Start her up and take for a test ride. oh look, oil drips. Lovely. The stator gasket is leaking all around. RTV is required. But I go for a quick jaunt anyhow.

I just got back. Bike fires up when i shut it off. Battery was fresh so that's nothing. I'll do another test wednesday and see how she is. By the end of the week I should know.

[m.breen]

I'm too lazy to read all the responds to the post so...are all the connections good? Tighten up the connections to the battery. Good luck.

[GP_RZ]

James the snapped bolts suck!!! i just use gasket maker, as the stator was in and out so many times last season no leaks...was getting tired of replacing gasket every time

[djltoronto]

I'm too lazy to read all the responds to the post so...are all the connections good? Tighten up the connections to the battery. Good luck.

Too lazy to read the problem description, but yet you have a suggestion on how to fix it

[JFD]

Too lazy to read the problem description, but yet you have a suggestion on how to fix it

Now would be a good time to insert a jedi themed pic.


But it's all good..I appreciate all the replies.