Tech inspecion TIRES?

[caboose483]

The bike matters trust me and so do the tires and overall setup! My first day I was on my 09 ZX6Rwith stunt gearing and street tires, and my friend was on an 07 GSXR 600 street bike with Dunlop Sportmax GP-A's... He was faster then me on that day, I had the completely wrong gearing for that track (or any track) and my street tires started to slide all over the place when they got really hot....(ask CbrJohn).....

Now on the 2nd day he changed the bike (didnt want to risk his GSXR 600 street bike anymore) and built a 04 CBR600RR. Race bodywork, gearing, rearsets, and Dunlop slicks....And he was slower then me on that day, he says the bike handles well...However he cannot touch my 09 ZX6R when I check out on him on corner exits...My bike is simply faster then his 04, I believe we are about equal in skill and experience...Its my bike at this point that keeps me ahead of him....

It matters less than you think. HP does not give that much of an advantage at TMP. If you're checking out on him in corner exits, its because he's not picking up the throttle as early as you.

There is a big difference in power between my 09 and his 04 believe it or not, there just is.....And even thou were not pros, that is still an advantage that puts me slightly ahead of him...

No there isn't. 15hp isn't that much of a difference.

As for the clown challenging me with his only bike, I just cant see him beating me....People that ride their only bike on the track hold back sub consciously...

I don't.

Same with stunting, these guys come out all the time talking a big game, saying they are going to get better then me, and then they fade away....If this guy is going to cut corners like running used plugged tires, then I assume he is going to cut even more corners....So IMO hes gonna have to be an amazing rider, to keep up with me...As Ive already invested more time, money and thought into this track thing.... If he comes out to challenge me, I will already have 3-4 track days on him....At the rate Ive improved already after 2 days, he better bring his A game...LOL

I'm starting to worry about you Johnny. I'm sure you have great throttle control and a really good feel for what the bike is doing under you but you're still a track noob. There's two ways people learn on the track, baby steps or leaps and bounds. Everyone crashes eventually, the people who learn in baby steps usually have smaller crashes. I had a dumb little lowside at TMP in 07, and another dumber lowside this year at SMP. The people who learn in leaps and bounds are more prone to having rather spectacular dismounts. I don't mean to belittle your accomplishments, or how quickly you've got into the track thing.. but at the same time you gotta stay humble and realize that there are people around here with valubale insight you should listen to. (no, not me.. i'm still noobish compared to some). The last thing i want to see is that ZX6R upside down 15 feet off the ground.

[Dan Dubeau]

Guys Like Craig Goodwin beating modern 600's on a Old FZR400.

Goodwin is fast, and smooth. I used to like the look of the fzr 400 tailsection. But I'm starting to get a strong distaste for it now . He ran a good race in lost era, but the vintage race between him, Stu, and Hofarth was some of the best racing I've seen all year.

[JohnnyP636]

It matters less than you think. HP does not give that much of an advantage at TMP. If you're checking out on him in corner exits, its because he's not picking up the throttle as early as you.

No there isn't. 15hp isn't that much of a difference.

I don't.

I'm starting to worry about you Johnny. I'm sure you have great throttle control and a really good feel for what the bike is doing under you but you're still a track noob. There's two ways people learn on the track, baby steps or leaps and bounds. Everyone crashes eventually, the people who learn in baby steps usually have smaller crashes. I had a dumb little lowside at TMP in 07, and another dumber lowside this year at SMP. The people who learn in leaps and bounds are more prone to having rather spectacular dismounts. I don't mean to belittle your accomplishments, or how quickly you've got into the track thing.. but at the same time you gotta stay humble and realize that there are people around here with valubale insight you should listen to. (no, not me.. i'm still noobish compared to some). The last thing i want to see is that ZX6R upside down 15 feet off the ground.

I always learn the hard way, but I dont ask for anyones sympathy when I do bite the dust....And all my crashes are spectacular! So dont worry about me....I will crash and I will crash hard, then I will pick up the pieces rebuild my machine, and come out even stronger...If you think Im going to crash once and hang it up, or slow down...Then you do not know me at all...I bought this bike to eventually become my stunt bike, so my plan was to eventually destroy this bike.....Thats still my plan but I plan to now beat the living **** out of it on the track, not doing wheelies...Either way I bought this bike and spent all the money on fancy parts, to beat the living **** out of it...Not pose....

Sorry but I think your fooling yourself if you think 15hp doenst make a difference...You are the only person that is saying it wont make a difference, eveyone he asked about the 04 600RR said..... "its a great bike but your going to be starving for more power very soon"....Tony at BSR, Ryan at RC, pretty much every racer we talked to besides the ones riding 03/04 600RR's...LOL Keep in mind were talking about newbs, obviously a pro can beat a newer bike on an older bike....That is not the point however, him not being able to catch me in any straight is, I can mess up a line and still pull away from him....Thats the point, and its him saying he cant catch me .....

[murf]

I'm sure some skills from stunting will transfer over to trackriding, but they are very different skill sets. Just like if a track rider would start stunting, it would take some time to learn. All the road race pro's and even the track schools recommend motoX, flat track and/or supermoto as training to get better at road racing....I have yet to see anyone recommend stunting. Wheelies and endos are detrimental to lap times, controlling a slide on the other hand is a good skill to know from stunting, but again that can also be learned from dirt riding etc.

[reciprocity]

Stunter's know best!

[murf]

Hey Recip, you gonna be at TMP anytime soon with the 55 HP supermotard?

[reciprocity]

I doubt it.

the CRF is terrible for that track.

[JohnnyP636]

I'm sure some skills from stunting will transfer over to trackriding, but they are very different skill sets. Just like if a track rider would start stunting, it would take some time to learn. All the road race pro's and even the track schools recommend motoX, flat track and/or supermoto as training to get better at road racing....I have yet to see anyone recommend stunting. Wheelies and endos are detrimental to lap times, controlling a slide on the other hand is a good skill to know from stunting, but again that can also be learned from dirt riding etc.

The problem with drifting on dirt is, there is no dirt on a track.....So learning to slide when there is no traction is alot different then actually doing it with traction....

Basically its easy for me to drift on sandy or dusty pavement that is slippery, but its alot harder without the help of dirt, dust, or sand....I think the most important factor we gain from stunting, is just the fact we go out there and ride these bikes hard and crash hard...Stunting isnt all about wheelies and stoppies, its about beating the crap out of a bike. And just being in control even when your out of control...Most people dont get to see this because most shows we do are in very very small areas, you guys dont get to see the 150km/h+ animalizm that happens at our spot that is as long if not longer then the straight at TMP....

Everyone is so scared of locking the rear wheel it makes me laugh sometimes, during one of our stunt shows at TMP...I locked my rear at 150km/h and slide half way down the track Xed up....I slide so far I wore a hole in my tire...Bottom line for most people a little rear wheel sliding is scary, for us its fun, we do it on purpose....When I came out of some corners sliding, the corner workers would run out and give me the slow down signal....Meanwhile Im having the time of my life, why would I want to slow down?

Thats what I like most about the track, I dont have to pass people. I just like to ride as hard as I can, It would be just as much fun, even more fun if the track was empty...

And like everyone else I think Im entitled to ride in the ambulance, Ive never been in one in my life...So that would be another experience...LOL

[JohnnyP636]

Stunter's know best!

We know how to break stuff best! And its snowballing, Ive got all my stunt friends trying to build track bikes...

Im not trying to go after the pros like yourself, I want my chance at the rookies like myself thou! There might be enough of us "stunters" into this thing next year, they might have to open up a SQUID race class just for us...

[reciprocity]

HAHAHAHA,

a stunt class, you have to slide or stoppie into corners.

you have to WIN the race, but you're also judged on presentation, like drifting.

I'd enter that in a heartbeat.

[JohnnyP636]

HAHAHAHA,

a stunt class, you have to slide or stoppie into corners.

you have to WIN the race, but you're also judged on presentation, like drifting.

I'd enter that in a heartbeat.

Hey if TMP sucks for the tard, why cant they add a dirt section for you tarders? Anyone ever entertain that thought? Maybe they could make you ride around the drag strip, onto the MX track then back around to the road coarse...LOL

I guess the road racers wouldnt like the dirt getting dragged all over the track...

[murf]

just for reference the difference between a novice on a SV650 (1:16.6) and the expert superbike with 75 HP more (1:14.7) is about 2 seconds. The expert 600 time is 1:15.3.
How much is 15 HP worth?

http://soaracing.ca/html/lap_records.htm

[reciprocity]

Hey if TMP sucks for the tard, why cant they add a dirt section for you tarders? Anyone ever entertain that thought? Maybe they could make you ride around the drag strip, onto the MX track then back around to the road coarse...LOL

I guess the road racers wouldnt like the dirt getting dragged all over the track...

We looked at building a track to start the SOAR series last season but that was one of the concerns, lots of people freaked at the thought of dirt on the track.

I figured it would be best to let SOAR get off the ground before fighting that fight.

After this past weekend, I think I'm going back to the US for roadracing next season anyway.

[JohnnyP636]

just for reference the difference between a novice on a SV650 (1:16.6) and the expert superbike with 75 HP more (1:14.7) is about 2 seconds. The expert 600 time is 1:15.3.
How much is 15 HP worth?

http://soaracing.ca/html/lap_records.htm

Ok so take away that 75 HP from the expert, and is he still gonna do 1:14.7? Probably not right, so HP does matter? Or is that extra 75 HP just for braging rights...

You keep mixing expert, pro, etc with novice, amateur, etc.......

2 seconds is big difference when your under 1:16 Id think.....When you get that low every .1 counts.....

[invictus43]

Ok so take away that 75 HP from the expert, and is he still gonna do 1:14.7? Probably not right, so HP does matter? Or is that extra 75 HP just for braging rights...

You keep mixing expert, pro, etc with novice, amateur, etc.......

2 seconds is big difference when your under 1:16 Id think.....When you get that low every .1 counts.....

It depends a lot on the track as well. At Mosport, you're pulling up that hill for a LONG time..HP would make more difference there. TMP, like Shannonville, the HP isn't that big a deal. It makes a difference, but sometimes not as big a difference.

[murf]

Ok so take away that 75 HP from the expert, and is he still gonna do 1:14.7? Probably not right, so HP does matter? Or is that extra 75 HP just for braging rights...

You keep mixing expert, pro, etc with novice, amateur, etc.......

2 seconds is big difference when your under 1:16 Id think.....When you get that low every .1 counts.....

thats why the 600 expert time was there of 1:15.3, vs the 1:14.7 for the expert 1000.
so thats 0.6 seconds and 50 HP. So 15 hp is worth about 0.15 seconds for pro's. Does that matter in our context or between you and your buddy?

[JohnnyP636]

thats why the 600 expert time was there of 1:15.3, vs the 1:14.7 for the expert 1000.
so thats 0.6 seconds and 50 HP. So 15 hp is worth about 0.15 seconds for pro's. Does that matter in our context or between you and your buddy?

He says it does...If you want to chalk it up to me simply being faster then him right now, I'll take that...LOL Dont think he will want to hear it thou, just like most other things its easier to blame the equipment...LOL

[Teal]

Ok so take away that 75 HP from the expert, and is he still gonna do 1:14.7? Probably not right, so HP does matter? Or is that extra 75 HP just for braging rights...

You keep mixing expert, pro, etc with novice, amateur, etc.......

2 seconds is big difference when your under 1:16 Id think.....When you get that low every .1 counts.....

Bevan was running "fast" 1:17's last year at TMP and is now down in the lower 1:14's - 600 NOVICE, on DOT's. I don't believe he has since made any significant (if any at all) modifications to his bike other than a proper setup.

[JohnnyP636]

Bevan was running "fast" 1:17's last year at TMP and is now down in the lower 1:14's - 600 NOVICE, on DOT's. I don't believe he has since made any significant (if any at all) modifications to his bike other than a proper setup.

And that proper suspension setup probably cost some money right? So again money is a factor, unless you own your own bike shop. And or know how to do proper suspension setup....Oh and have your own track to test and tune on! For someone like myself I have to pay someone to adjust my suspension at this point, and do track days to test and tune it....None of these are free for me...

Everyone keeps pointing out my stock rear shock, saying I will need to change that eventually if I plan on competing seriously....And guess what, an Ohlins shock isnt free, its about $1500......So again money is a big factor IMO, as track days arent free and neither is improving your bikes setup...Not for me anyways....

I just spent $400 on rearsets, because I was draging my rear brake lever at its hightest adjustment level.....That gives me more confidence and IMO will let me push even harder and go faster...Thats only my opinion thou...Im sure a pro can grab my bike in stock form, and ride it faster then me with all the parts...But thats not the point, cause a pro isnt going to be riding my bike, I am, so it needs to be setup how I like it......

[chinto]

And that proper suspension setup probably cost some money right? So again money is a factor,

Probably more of a factor in the improvement was the fast rabbit in Scott Rupert that Bevan has been chasing all year. Following a guy like rupert around the track, round after round will only make a rider faster.

I just spent $400 on rearsets, because I was draging my rear brake lever at its hightest adjustment level.....

Better body positioning probably could have saved you the 400.00, but if the money you spent is worth it in your mind (and budget) than spend away.

Bottom line, is only seat time and experience will make you faster. Especially at a track like TMP.