Tech inspecion TIRES?

[JohnnyP636]

So what are the ill affects I would have had, running 30 instead of 23? Basically just trying to understand what dropping down to the right pressure will do for me?

[invictus43]

So what are the ill affects I would have had, running 30 instead of 23? Basically just trying to understand what dropping down to the right pressure will do for me?

I suspect the tire wouldn't get up to optimum temperature and probably would have had less traction because of it. It also may have been skittish because it was very rigid..unable to conform to the track surface as well as it might have. And if you did heat up the surface from sliding, it would lose the heat more quickly and would probably be a little unpredictable as far as how much traction is available.

[murf]

So what are the ill affects I would have had, running 30 instead of 23? Basically just trying to understand what dropping down to the right pressure will do for me?

smaller contact patch and not enough heat

[murf]

Just to entertain the conversation I said "Oh yeah well he better have alot of money if he wants to compete with me" "so what kind of tire did he bring, was it a good tire

not sure what money has to do with it, but if he starts to think he needs top off the line tires etc etc and gets a false sense of security it will end badly.
I've had to remind myself that the skills come first, fancy parts come later. This makes more sense every year.

[JohnnyP636]

not sure what money has to do with it, but if he starts to think he needs top off the line tires etc etc and gets a false sense of security it will end badly.
I've had to remind myself that the skills come first, fancy parts come later. This makes more sense every year.

Um I agree skills come first but money plays a big factor in all sports my friend, first of all Im on a 09 ZX6R with almost every mod you could want/need for racing. This guy has a stock RC51......Ive done 2 track days in less then a month and I plan on doing one every 2 weeks till the season is over...Not everyone can afford that much track time...And my bike is a rocket.....

He gonna be running ****** plugged scrubs, Im going to be on slicks with warmers...If I crash I have money to fix my bike, he doesnt....And I have nothing to prove, he does...Right now I just see myself having alot of advantages...But it doesnt matter cause I would not play into that game anyways...Im just gonna keep riding for myself cause I really enjoy it, and getting faster, not beating people...

For me everything relates to stunting because thats what Im best at, and it cost me alot of money to get where I am at that...Ive seen many people come and go, some just cant afford it, others get hurt and or just give up...The track is even worse cause you cant show up on a POS bike that isnt track worthy, unlike a stunt bike that no one is going to tell you you cant ride in a parking lot..

[Tonto]

So what are the ill affects I would have had, running 30 instead of 23? Basically just trying to understand what dropping down to the right pressure will do for me?

That's a good question Johnny, and one not easily answered as the manufacturer recomended pressures are usually just starting points. From there you'll have to allow for- suspension set up, weather or not you are using warmers (tire pressure will rise as much as 10% on the warmers)the weight of the rider and how aggressive they are. A good example. When Eden was learning to race his NSR a few years back in Pennsilvania, he would come off the back strait and carry a ton of speed into the sweeping horseshoe right hander. He was running 20PSI on the front tires and I thought that was low, but every time he took the corner, he plowed the front end. You could actually see the front tire sliding 3-4 inches sideways toward the outside of the corner (scared the hell out of me). One of the other racers fathers was watching the same thing and suggested I drop the pressure by .5PSI each session until the bike hooked up. I did so and as it turned out- with him being all of 65 lbs. at the time- the proper pressure for him to run in the front was 18.5PSI. The bike hooked up and it was like he was on rails. Its tough but you should keep a track-day diary to record your pressures as well as the track conditions -remember cold asphalt and hot asphalt make tires react differently. It's kind of a neat self-education thing and makes you feel better when you're going into a corner way hotter than anyone has any business going!

[murf]

Um I agree skills come first but money plays a big factor in all sports my friend, first of all Im on a 09 ZX6R with almost every mod you could want/need for racing. This guy has a stock RC51......Ive done 2 track days in less then a month and I plan on doing one every 2 weeks till the season is over...Not everyone can afford that much track time...And my bike is a rocket.....

..

There were seasons I'd do 1 or 2 trackdays a week, got the fancy parts etc for my new SS and had to do everything I could to keep up with an older gentleman on a SV650 with old tires that had 8 trackdays on them a couple of years back. He was nice enough to let me follow him and learn a few things.
In car racing its 80% car, 20% driver (as demonstrated in F1 this year), in bikes its 20% bike, 80% rider. I've noticed the fast guys don't talk about the $$$$

[JohnnyP636]

There were seasons I'd do 1 or 2 trackdays a week, got the fancy parts etc for my new SS and had to do everything I could to keep up with an older gentleman on a SV650 with old tires that had 8 trackdays on them a couple of years back. He was nice enough to let me follow him and learn a few things.
In car racing its 80% car, 20% driver (as demonstrated in F1 this year), in bikes its 20% bike, 80% rider. I've noticed the fast guys don't talk about the $$$$

Your talking about something different! Your talking about people with track experience, against a newbie....Im talking about 2 newbies against eachother...One that is going to spend alot of time and money polishing his skills and bike setup, the other plans to come out once and beat me....

Think what you will, but IMO if you take 2 newbs with equal experience and put one on a stock bike and the other on an AMA superbike...The guy on the AMA bike is going to be faster even, if he doesnt have more skill he has a better performing machine...

If you think Im saying Im going to be faster cause I have more money, then your miss understanding me! What Im saying is Im going to spend alot of time and money on the track, so if you (not you but any other newb) want to compete with me. You better be ready to put in the time and money I am.....Or just be a born natural, because I plan to get as good as I am at track as I am at stunting...And not many people around here could keep up with me in that sport...Its the effort I put in mostly, but that effort costs money

[caboose483]

Your talking about something different! Your talking about people with track experience, against a newbie....Im talking about 2 newbies against eachother...One that is going to spend alot of time and money polishing his skills and bike setup, the other plans to come out once and beat me....

Think what you will, but IMO if you take 2 newbs with equal experience and put one on a stock bike and the other on an AMA superbike...The guy on the AMA bike is going to be faster even, if he doesnt have more skill he has a better performing machine...

I disagree.

Having gas charged Ohlins superbike forks, an Ohlins shock and full Brembo brakes only matters if you're able to ride beyond the limits of the stock parts.

I don't mean to sound condesending but if you're running 1:19's at TMP you are not pushing the limits of a stock ZX6R. You've got good parts on your bike but that won't make you faster.

Unless you're running a decent Amateur pace or better, i don't think the parts on your bike would make any significant difference. Other than tires, for a novice rider an RC51 is modern enough that the performance of that bike compared to yours would make little difference.

[murf]

It would be kinda funny if this RC51 guy was doing trackdays in the meantime though!

In my little story I was an experienced track rider, but the fella on the SV650 was a hardcore track rider/ex racer that was just a natural.

[Akshun]

JohnnyP hooked on track now?

[invictus43]

I disagree.

Having gas charged Ohlins superbike forks, an Ohlins shock and full Brembo brakes only matters if you're able to ride beyond the limits of the stock parts.

I don't mean to sound condesending but if you're running 1:19's at TMP you are not pushing the limits of a stock ZX6R. You've got good parts on your bike but that won't make you faster.

Unless you're running a decent Amateur pace or better, i don't think the parts on your bike would make any significant difference. Other than tires, for a novice rider an RC51 is modern enough that the performance of that bike compared to yours would make little difference.

On the other hand, a well set-up race bike is nice to ride and probably would make you faster. I think everyone has the same idea in mind here..skills are important..you have to learn to set up whatever bike you have to your liking and your technique, and you have to take your lumps and learn to ride fast and where the limit is, and better parts will only help you go quicker and will be more consistent as you get faster.

[invictus43]

It would be kinda funny if this RC51 guy was doing trackdays in the meantime though!

In my little story I was an experienced track rider, but the fella on the SV650 was a hardcore track rider/ex racer that was just a natural.

I kinda get the feeling that Johnny is the kind of guy who will focus pretty hard on the task at hand and learn quickly. I suspect he'll be ripping it up on the track and throwing it away shortly..but he'll also learn from those spills and be pretty fast in no time. He may get more out of 1 track day than I would in 5. I'm out there sport-touring trying to have some fun, not fall down and maybe slide it around a bit just to learn. I think he'll be hard on it pushing the limit every time.

[murf]

If the person is at the level that they haven't adjusted the stock suspension, don't know what air pressure they like then the bike and parts won't matter. It will be good to have the fancy parts later on as the person advances.

[caboose483]

On the other hand, a well set-up race bike is nice to ride and probably would make you faster. I think everyone has the same idea in mind here..skills are important..you have to learn to set up whatever bike you have to your liking and your technique, and you have to take your lumps and learn to ride fast and where the limit is, and better parts will only help you go quicker and will be more consistent as you get faster.

I don't know about that.

A well set up race bike has to be ridden hard to work properly. As my pace has picked up this year i've had to make suspension adjustments to suit faster riding. Every change i've made this season has helped me but makes my bike less forgiving. When i was talking with John Sherrard back in April getting some help, the first thing he asked me when dialing in my Ohlins shock was "how fast are you?". As it was, my compression and rebound damping settings were perfect for a top level Amateur or Pro rider but was a really harsh ride and extremely unforgiving. Not ideal for me. We softened it up a bit but i've already got to the level where i needed to dial it back in.

A well set up race bike is only nice to ride if you're actually capable of riding it.

[CBRJOHN]

JohnnyP hooked on track now?

When his Avatar Changes from doing a wheelie to dragging a knee, the corruption is complete

I kinda get the feeling that Johnny is the kind of guy who will focus pretty hard on the task at hand and learn quickly. I suspect he'll be ripping it up on the track and throwing it away shortly..but he'll also learn from those spills and be pretty fast in no time. He may get more out of 1 track day than I would in 5. I'm out there sport-touring trying to have some fun, not fall down and maybe slide it around a bit just to learn. I think he'll be hard on it pushing the limit every time.

I on the track a lot with Johnny at the GTAM Track Day.. Was he a Bit erratic,, Yes, But it was his first ever track day.

Just over the course of the day he improved a lot.. One example, Early in the day he was swerving over to the right of the straight coming off turn 12, later in the day hey was holding the proper line. Same thing through 4-5.. With the gearing on that ZX6 it would launch off the corners sometimes going all over the place....

Maybe that's his strategy,, Make everyone afraid to pass thinking he's gonna bin it at any second .

I think because he is such a good stunt rider he has a much better sense of the bike is doing and is more comfortable when the bike starts sliding and hopping around. I think that's why a lot of people crash is they panic in that situation.

He strikes me as the type when he commits to something, He Commits 110%.. At the GTAM Day he was quick by brute force, As he becomes smoother I have no doubt he will be very quick.

On tracks like Cayuga, The rider is far more important than the bike. Just look at guys like Busby and Greening on their SV's regularly beating a pack full of 600's and turning 1:17s and below ,, Guys Like Craig Goodwin beating modern 600's on a Old FZR400.


Oh Ya,, Way off topic here,, Don't use plugged tire on the track

[[evo]]

Now I'm getting worried I was hoping a bit of practice this year and I could do relatively well in Rookie cup next year for Cheap...now I got JohnnyP who's good and got a ******** more cash to throw around than me LOL

Imma hafta start hanging around with some of the faster SV peeps and steal their secrets!

[Teal]

When his Avatar Changes from doing a wheelie to dragging a knee, the corruption is complete

... or a pic of him clipping the pit wall at TMP with his rear tire, mid-stoppie, with a checkered flag well placed in his boot. Now there's a challenge for ya JohnnyPSR.

[Brian P]

My observation through a couple decades of being involved with this, has been that the smack-talkers are usually either really slow, or crash themselves into oblivion in short order and don't come back. Unless that RC51 has had A LOT of suspension work done - and correctly set up, at that - it isn't going to be a factor against a modern 600, no matter the tires.

It is very rare that a track-day smack-talker is actually capable of doing what they say they can do. Not impossible ... but very rare. In actual racing events, there is almost none ... when the green flag drops, the BS stops.

[JohnnyP636]

The bike matters trust me and so do the tires and overall setup! My first day I was on my 09 ZX6Rwith stunt gearing and street tires, and my friend was on an 07 GSXR 600 street bike with Dunlop Sportmax GP-A's... He was faster then me on that day, I had the completely wrong gearing for that track (or any track) and my street tires started to slide all over the place when they got really hot....(ask CbrJohn).....

Now on the 2nd day he changed the bike (didnt want to risk his GSXR 600 street bike anymore) and built a 04 CBR600RR. Race bodywork, gearing, rearsets, and Dunlop slicks....And he was slower then me on that day, he says the bike handles well...However he cannot touch my 09 ZX6R when I check out on him on corner exits...My bike is simply faster then his 04, I believe we are about equal in skill and experience...Its my bike at this point that keeps me ahead of him....

There is a big difference in power between my 09 and his 04 believe it or not, there just is.....And even thou were not pros, that is still an advantage that puts me slightly ahead of him...

As for the clown challenging me with his only bike, I just cant see him beating me....People that ride their only bike on the track hold back sub consciously... Same with stunting, these guys come out all the time talking a big game, saying they are going to get better then me, and then they fade away....If this guy is going to cut corners like running used plugged tires, then I assume he is going to cut even more corners....So IMO hes gonna have to be an amazing rider, to keep up with me...As Ive already invested more time, money and thought into this track thing.... If he comes out to challenge me, I will already have 3-4 track days on him....At the rate Ive improved already after 2 days, he better bring his A game...LOL