Street vs track tires

[dvu3]

I thought maybe you were going to be switching to knobbies for the next round


How you feeling?

Hey, I am feeling better but my back still hurts a lot though...

[pacmann33]

Use your PP2ct's for SURE...no need to spend time and money changing them, they will not benefit you at all on a first trackday, you will have so much to think about that turning super fast lap times will not be an issue. They will stick great after a couple of warm up laps. Everything slides around on the street.

Tires are such a mental thing that it's crazy. I use diablo corsa 3's with great success. I also use the cheap supercorsa pros because they are....cheap. I'm no racer, but I'm not the slowest on the track either.

Pressures are also a huge mental thing too. I use like 36 front 34 rear on corsa 3's to keep them from getting too hot in the summer at trackdays and the tires STICK. Most street tires...people run pressure way way too low, the carcass is soft on street tires.

Also...most people on this site cannot actually tell the difference from one tire to the other. some of the racers can, take advice on here for what it is worth, although some of the people who have replied in this thread are VERY experienced.

[JohnnyP636]

Most peoples tire issues are mental however racing is mostly mental so whatever works for you in the end.

Thats what Ive come to understand, talking to a friend he says running scrubs helps him get over the mental of not being confident on street tires...Then again he says he will chase someone on the track, only to come into the pits and find they were on street tires running a hotter pace then he is on scrubs....So your so right about that..


Anyways you guys are getting really technical, too technical for me..LOL....I decided to stick with the PP's, I wanted to try different tires, but my friend needed them more then I did...His bike had miss matched street tires, so he picked up a set of Dunlop Sportmax GP-A D50 scrubs...Maybe hell let me try his bike for a session and I can feel the difference myself, and then possibly buy a new set for my next day....I already dropped like 2 G's setting the bike up and buying gear, so Im gonna try and do a few more days for sure before the seasons over...

Gonna do a Riders Choice day hopefully at Shanonville next, Matty McBride said hell show me around the track...Dunno if a track school would be any better then 1 on 1 with someone like Mat that I can really relate too...

Anyways thanks for all the info and comments guys/girls

[eastcoast_gsx]

Gonna do a Riders Choice day hopefully at Shanonville next, Matty McBride said hell show me around the track...Dunno if a track school would be any better then 1 on 1 with someone like Mat that I can really relate too...

Your in good hands....

You know there will be no turning back now right?

Stunting, Tracking, Racing... $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[chinto]

You know there will be no turning back now right?

Stunting, Tracking, Racing... $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

He'll need to start charging more for the stunt shows in order to pay for his crack time...I mean track time.

[murf]

Its not about being fast, its about having confidence....I dont want to be sliding around half way through the day on PP's, if I can get a set of scrubs for $50-100....

Like I said the PP's get slippery on me on the street, I can only see them getting more slick on the track....Its not the end of the world but I could possibly crash letting the rear kick out. And I assume there would be less chance of that with a race tire that is not going to start to slip as they get hot...

Not sure how much more confident I would feel with scrubs.
for race dot's they have to get into their operating temps to really work better than a street/hybrid tire like PP's which is over 180 degrees F. Are your PP's slippery cause they are over heating on the street? You can get those cheap infra red temp gauges for $40 and check your tire temps......you could just bring a set of race tires to the track and if the PP's are over heating change tires.

[JohnnyP636]

Not sure how much more confident I would feel with scrubs.
for race dot's they have to get into their operating temps to really work better than a street/hybrid tire like PP's which is over 180 degrees F. Are your PP's slippery cause they are over heating on the street? You can get those cheap infra red temp gauges for $40 and check your tire temps......you could just bring a set of race tires to the track and if the PP's are over heating change tires.

Yes the PP's only start to slip on me on the street, when they get really hot on a really hot day...And its only in certain corners, and depends on the kind of pavement...So it might not be an issue on the track considering I felt the traction to be very very good on the straight, but didnt not get to try the rest of the track...

With the stunting Ive learned to determine the difference between slippery and good ashphalt just looking at it. Cause when you come in to do a stoppie at 100km+, the last thing you want to do is push the front because the pavement is slippery...So if the rest of the track is like the straight, its got really good traction IMO.....

The problem is while trying to go fast on the street, by the time you realize the pavement your about to cross in a corner is the slippery stuff. Its too late your already on it in a lean, thats when the front pushes and I need to change my boxers....

I can iron tires on/off at the track no problem, but I dont have anything to break the bead....I use my fork lift here at work to do my tire changes, but I guess if someone let me use their bead breaker I could do it....

[murf]

if it rains you'll be glad you have the pp's with the silica in them anyway

[kneedragger88]

The problem here is that you guys are comparing the same tires without thinking about different track surfaces...keep that in mind, and wouldn't the weight of a rider make a difference as to how long tires last too?

Having ridden most tracks on the eastern seaboard of North America and many to the midwest. There are NO tracks harder on tires than Daytona. Dunlop and Pirelli actually make a "Daytona" tire thats harder on the left than the right. Superbikes will actually still be spinning the tire at close to two hundred miles per hour on the banking with the suspension fully compressed. Dunlops were exploding from the load, hense why the 200 has been run with 600s for the past number of years and they switched to the "short" course taking Nascar 1 and 2 out of the mix. In an effort to reduce tire loads and crashes.
If a tire lasts at Daytona it will last anywhere. The only exception may be some of the temporary airport circuits as airport tarmac uses a ton of stone and some in the south use crushed glass to help the ashphalt handle the weight of aircraft. But as far as I know there are no long races at temp circuits.

[Blackie]

Yes the PP's only start to slip on me on the street, when they get really hot on a really hot day...And its only in certain corners, and depends on the kind of pavement...So it might not be an issue on the track considering I felt the traction to be very very good on the straight, but didnt not get to try the rest of the track...

Don't forget there's also a lot more crap on street pavement like oil, dirt, grime that may be adding to the slipping.

[Metastable]

I was at MidOhio this past weekend. Got to ride with Nick Ienatsch (ya know author of "the pace") and Ken Hill. They were on BONE STOCK Buells with STREET tires..... exactly 100% what you get from the showroom floor... signals and mirrors and brake lights etc. Well - they were going seriously faster than anyone in the Intermediate group... never saw them slip up. For your first trackday, I don't see why you'd want to have slicks... etc.

[CBRJOHN]

So it might not be an issue on the track considering I felt the traction to be very very good on the straight, but didnt not get to try the rest of the track...

With the stunting Ive learned to determine the difference between slippery and good ashphalt just looking at it. Cause when you come in to do a stoppie at 100km+, the last thing you want to do is push the front because the pavement is slippery...So if the rest of the track is like the straight, its got really good traction IMO.....

.

On the racing lines, The traction is good, Wait until you're doing a 200+KPH unintentional stoppie in the brake zone coming into turn 1.

[JohnnyP636]

For your first trackday, I don't see why you'd want to have slicks... etc.

Like I said it was a friend of mine that used to ride and do track days but doesnt ride anymore, that told us "if we really want to have fun, run track tires"....He was going to the track with pros like Rudy Raposo, Matt McBride, and Mike Peters thou, so obviously he was running what they would be running, basically whatever came off their bikes...

So I was just wondering how others felt about what he is saying, obviously I dont "NEED" them, but I dont need alot of stuff I have...Im the kind of guy that wants the best of everything, so if track tires were really a big improvement in confidence, Id buy them...

Anyways maybe next time I'll try them, as I think Im going to leave this bike setup for track for a while....

[toastman]

street tires have run 1:17 at Cayuga, the lap record is a high 1:14
The track riding game is a very mental thing so if you think you need track tires then you do.
Realistically unless you are leading the pack in hotshoot you don't need them, nor will you be able to use their potential.

Donald

[Yahel]

Johnnny, being a highly skilled stunt rider you are obviously very perceptive of what your bike does, when it does it and most importantly, what caused it.

Not many here are capable of doing what you do, therefore apart from praising and watching you in awe we can't offer much else when it comes to stunting.

That being said, a lot of people here and some of your friends know what they are talking about when it comes to track riding/road racing.

Change the street tires out for a set of new or used DOTs....your road racing experience will be far more than it was on streets, regardless of your pace.

[kneedragger88]

Johnnny, being a highly skilled stunt rider you are obviously very perceptive of what your bike does, when it does it and most importantly, what caused it.

Not many here are capable of doing what you do, therefore apart from praising and watching you in awe we can't offer much else when it comes to stunting.

That being said, a lot of people here and some of your friends know what they are talking about when it comes to track riding/road racing.

Change the street tires out for a set of new or used DOTs....your road racing experience will be far more than it was on streets, regardless of your pace.

Well said

[JohnnyP636]

Johnnny, being a highly skilled stunt rider you are obviously very perceptive of what your bike does, when it does it and most importantly, what caused it.

Not many here are capable of doing what you do, therefore apart from praising and watching you in awe we can't offer much else when it comes to stunting.

That being said, a lot of people here and some of your friends know what they are talking about when it comes to track riding/road racing.

Change the street tires out for a set of new or used DOTs....your road racing experience will be far more than it was on streets, regardless of your pace.

Thanks I had a great time and the PP's didnt let me down, but I want to try some track tires next time for sure...Tires, some proper suspension setup, and the right gearing, and I think I can push even harder. I cant say it was the tires because I havent tried anything else yet, and I have not even touched the factory suspension settings, but I was all over the place at times...I dont know how many times this one corner worker gave me the "slow down" signal, when I would show him the side of my bike comming out of that corner sideways boarder line high siding it at least twice....

Now if you guys want to continue the discussion, but shift towards tire model brands? So I dont have to start another thread, Im all ears! Im a Michelin man when it comes to street tires, but have not heard 1 good thing about their race tires so far...LOL

[murf]

I've heard good things about these:
http://www.michelinmotorcycle.com/in...event=powerone

[CBRJOHN]

I've heard good things about these:
http://www.michelinmotorcycle.com/in...event=powerone

Ask DaveP about them,, He Cooked a pair on one or two track days,, And they were the street compound

I run Pilot Powers and currently Pilot Road 2CTs on the street but I didnt like Power Races on the track, I found they would break loose without warning.

Of the current rubber I've used the Bridgestone BT-002's and the new BT-003 (Steep front profile, Type 3s) , Diablo Supercorsa's and Dragon Supercorsas. They all have a bit different feel but I found them very predictable. The BT-003's wear amazingly.. I just took a set off that had 3 Race Weekends and 5 trackdays on them and were just getting to the wearbars on the right side..

Uhmmmmm I mean I had 20 Laps on them----- Scrubs For Sale


I Haven't tried the new Dunlop Sportmax GPA but they will likey be the next ones I try.

[murf]

i was speaking more about the race michelin power ones.
I use the bt-003's as well. how many days do you get out of them?