Addresses for reporting bad cops

[Karl]

When I read someone stating that they would "beat him into a bloody pulp" indicates to me that they are passionate about something/someone ie, they would probably lose control in a situation......totally fine with that, I'm a bit that way too. But then I ask "would your wife act like that 15 year old" and........no answer

It's because most people wouldn't act like that. Police are trained to contain situations with their voices and then when someone becomes physical or wild or start whipping stuff at them then you get slammed on your face.
You can argue with the police, disagree with them but the moment you start to touch or throw things in their direction they have to regain control before it escalates further...........do you honestly think that would have happened to her had she cooperated?

Obviously how her family has raised her has been "weak".

I'm not a lawyer, don't know if you are but I doubt that a Brinks guard can shoot me if I grab his bag of money.......if I use a gun in the process then it is a threat against his life not his property.

So you would defend yourself and your property and "would probably go to jail" after "pounding his face while he's on the ground" how does that make you any different than that cop? You weren't in danger and yet you chose to harm someone......wouldn't a judge look at you (as a defendant) and ask you "you gave this kid brain damage over a material thing like your motorcycle?"

Anyway, I agree that the cop used excessive force and should be dealt with accordingly, this wouldn't have happened if Malika had been raised properly.

PS thank you for not spewing historical facts readily available to anyone with an internet connection and/or a library card and by not using terms such as "exsanguination" when stabbed or slit would be suffice (even though all these would cause hypovolemia)

[BusaBob]

The cop did go overboard with the shots to the head...

I agree

...but the rest Malika kinda deserved it. She is obviously fine in her interview.......actually she is acting totally innocent. Technically what she did was assault and if that cop did nothing a few years from now she would even get worse.

I respectfully disagree.

The officer escalated the use of force well beyond what was necessary. He's probably at least 200 lbs and fit. She's a minor and couldn't be more than 115 lbs.

He runs in there, kicks her, shoves her into the wall, grabs her by the hair and throws her down onto the floor and while she's there, punches her at least twice in the head. I do not see anything in that tape to indicate that she was resisting or that the officer's safety was an issue.

The idea that this treatment at the hands of a law enforcement official will somehow make her a better citizen or prevent her from getting worse treatment in the future is ridiculous. He is a police officer. He has no authority to met out justice or punishment the way he did. She does not state that she was innocent. She admits to kicking the shoe at the officer and being lippy with him. Look again at the tape: she does not kick it hard. She was already in the detention room. What was the purpose of throwing her on the ground? preventing her from fleeing?? He already had complete control of the situation. If he wanted to "regain control" of the situation by cuffing her, I've got no problem with that. But the way he went about it crossed the line of acceptable force.

For those of you who have kids......would they have kicked off their shoes at someone? Let alone a police officer?

This is irrelevant. The fact is that his response to her "assault" is clearly excessive

Naaah those were a few light taps, he was just trying to scare her a bit

I find it disturbing that you can joke about a 15 year old girl being beaten in such a way by a grown man, never mind that he is a police officer. Do you not have an issue with violence against women? against children?

Still if Malika here does this kinda of stuff to a cop what would she do to your daughter if they got into an argument about a boy at school.

But who here has thrown anything at a cop or even another person?

Again, irrelevant, as his actions are clearly excessive for the situation.
And please: She softly kicked a shoe at him.

Don't do that........change what I wrote to suit your view ......I clearly stated that they did not threaten or touch you....

He isn't. He is merely extrapolating the consequences of defending his property. In the situation you describe, it would not be unreasonable to presume the kids would use those items as weapons once he began to defend his property.

And about your property???? within the law means you can not touch someone else unless you are in danger.....not your property. That is what insurance is for.

You are incorrect. You are absolutely allowed to defend your property according to Section 27 of the Criminal Code of Canada:

Use of force to prevent commission of offence
27. Every one is justified in using as much force as is reasonably necessary
(a) to prevent the commission of an offence

(i) for which, if it were committed, the person who committed it might be arrested without warrant, and

(ii) that would be likely to cause immediate and serious injury to the person or property of anyone; or

(b) to prevent anything being done that, on reasonable grounds, he believes would, if it were done, be an offence mentioned in paragraph (a).
R.S., c. C-34, s. 27.

http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/ShowFul...6//20090615/en

And guess what. Right before she was arrested she dipped her shoe in Javex and put a razor blade in the tread.

I know you're kidding, I'm pretty sure you're kidding.....

Everyone reading this, including yourself, would have grabbed the little snots by their necks and thrown them 20 ft away.......

Do not presume to know what I would or would not do. I would defend my property and myself, but I would not use any force that is is out of proportion to the threat and I would not use any force that would be reasonably considered to be punitive or vengeful....

You can argue with the police, disagree with them but the moment you start to touch or throw things in their direction they have to regain control before it escalates further...........do you honestly think that would have happened to her had she cooperated?

In Canada, you cannot actually "argue" with a Police Officer (although you can discuss things with them). To argue with one (as is shout, yell, etc.) would buy you a charge called "Breech of Peace", or something like that, and they can arrest you for it.

However, I actually do agree with you on the highlighted portion, but again, this police officer's response was excessive

I'm not a lawyer, don't know if you are but I doubt that a Brinks guard can shoot me if I grab his bag of money.......if I use a gun in the process then it is a threat against his life not his property.

I am not a lawyer either, but have a (rudimentary) understanding of laws pertaining to self defence. In the Brinks scenario, if you were to grab the guard's bag of money, be prepared to have a fight on your hands. If you're fighting him, you are putting his health and safety at risk. So he's legally entitled to defend himself by fighting back against you. Furthermore, you'd be an idiot to try and do this while not armed yourself. Hence the guard carries a gun. So yeah, he could shoot you if it escalated to it.

If you only grabbed the bag and ran without a fight, he'd give chase but could not shoot you until you actually put up a fight or resisted capture in a way such that the use of a gun would be considered reasonable by your average person. But you'd be crazy to try this.

So you would defend yourself and your property and "would probably go to jail" after "pounding his face while he's on the ground" how does that make you any different than that cop? You weren't in danger and yet you chose to harm someone......wouldn't a judge look at you (as a defendant) and ask you "you gave this kid brain damage over a material thing like your motorcycle?"

I never stated that I'd do this. I was only speaking hypothetically/generically to the scenario you described. Myself, I would NOT use more force than is necessary to stop the kid from vandalizing my property and arresting him. If doing so turned into a bigger fight that required more force to defend myself, well, that's a different scenario

Anyway, I agree that the cop used excessive force and should be dealt with accordingly, this wouldn't have happened if Malika had been raised properly.

I agree whole heartedly.

PS thank you for not spewing historical facts readily available to anyone with an internet connection and/or a library card and by not using terms such as "exsanguination" when stabbed or slit would be suffice (even though all these would cause hypovolemia)

if you're not being sarcastic, well, you're welcome. But what would it matter if I did?

[FiReSTaRT]

But then I ask "would your wife act like that 15 year old" and........no answer

There was no reason to respond because the answer is obvious and irrelevant to the actual example we are discussing.
While the girl did technically assault the cop, she was still easily controllable without what any normal person would consider a brutal beatdown. There was no immediate threat (or threat of any kind) to the cop's person or property from the girl. If that's the case, the most he can do is cuff her and charge her with assault.
Being a guy almost twice her age/weight and able to take a good beating (7 guys, still stayed on my feet, which is more than I could say about 3 of them), I'd take what he gave her if it would get me out of an assault rap

[rocketrc51]

These kids now days have no respect for anything. I think it looks good on her for chirping off. I know she's 15, but she should just shut up and do what she's told. She did break the law. The cop did use a little excessive force.

[Centrefold]

Would this still be an issue if it was a 200 lb. male, physically fit and also a repeat offender (car theft but no record of violence) ?

Just wanted to ask for your opinions. I agree the force was excessive though.

[FiReSTaRT]

Well for starters, the cop wouldn't have been able to throw him around like a rag doll, but yeah, if he wasn't resisting and still got kicked, slammed on the ground and punched, that would have been a textbook case of police brutality. Same goes for the hypothetical situation if he did have a record of violence. If he's not attacking the cop or posing a genuine threat (other than a slowly kicked off shoe), there's no justification for a beatdown.

[bitzz]

Would this still be an issue if it was a 200 lb. male, physically fit and also a repeat offender (car theft but no record of violence) ?

Just wanted to ask for your opinions. I agree the force was excessive though.

A convicted Paul Bernardo has the same human rights as this 15 yr old girl.

[Karl]

Good morning everyone, I see this thread is still going so I'll chime in

A lot of my views are based on a part time job I had with the Toronto District School Board as a part time cleaner.

In those five years I have encountered the nicest kids that will grow up to be very successful as well as ones that in a few years will be charged with everything up to murder but mostly will be out there selling drugs and stealing our cars and bikes.

A few years back a teacher was suspended for restraining a student during a fight, the student was using a folding chair on a much smaller student and the teacher held him down until the police arrived. The bad student's parents charged the teacher with something similar to assault.

After this incident teachers were told not to restrain kids, even during a fight, they were to grab the one being pummeled and bring him/her to safety.

So basically these kids found out quickly that they were invincible and would graffiti right in front of me, tell me to go F myself, throw things at the teachers and do some really crazy things like kick over desks, throw rocks and break windows etc. They even keyed 27 cars in the staff lot.
This all happened at 8 different schools I worked in.

BusaBob: Don't presume I have an issue with violence against women/children. I have dealt with and spoken to more children in those five years than you will in your lifetime which is why I can see she has a disregard for authority. If you have only dealt with your own children or your neighbour's kids then you will not come close to know what I am talking about.

Secondly, most of you are parents, I am not, so there is some biased views.....I'm sure while watching this clip you have pictured your own child in that situation and I'm sure it caused your blood pressure to rise a bit.

FiReSTaRT: yes the answer is obvious but not irrelevant......it's what initiated the assault on her. Had she not disrespected (assaulted) the police officer we would not be talking about this.

All we see in this clip is the end result.....we do not see what happened leading up to this point. The cop treated this minor the same he would have treated any one of us had we done the same thing.

We can agree to disagree

[FiReSTaRT]

FiReSTaRT: yes the answer is obvious but not irrelevant......it's what initiated the assault on her. Had she not disrespected (assaulted) the police officer we would not be talking about this.

All we see in this clip is the end result.....we do not see what happened leading up to this point. The cop treated this minor the same he would have treated any one of us had we done the same thing.

She may have been a lippy punk (I'd probably go as far as making the assumption) and she did break the law by assaulting him. I'm not trying to make her out into a little angel. However, don't forget:
1) There was no imminent danger of harm to the cop's person or property. By that definition, all he would have been allowed to do is restrain her.
2) His response to the level of threat was GROSSLY excessive.
3) He abused his position to beat down a person just because she was "lippy and disrespectful," which should escalate the criminal charges laid against him in my opinion.
Hypothetical situations to prove the abuse of authority:
1) If a random person on the street jumped on me, kicked me, knocked me down and started punching me, I'd be fully justified to reciprocate and give him a dose of his own medicine until he's either unwilling or unable to continue being a threat to my personal safety.
2) Now what would happen if "random person" happened to be an RCMP constable and "the street" happened to be a police station. I'd end up being the object of taser target practice for constables, supervisory staff, administrative staff and cleaning ladies.
Situation #2 stems from the fact that a police constable is given certain powers by the nature of his/her position. If they abuse those powers and violate the law, they should be subject to stricter punishment than the "random dude" in situation #1. At least I'm able to defend myself from his assault.

[Karl]

?Not sure what you mean?

The girl initiated the attack, not the officer.

Why does everyone expect police officers to be robots? Yes, legally, he was assaulted (I know it's BS) but he acted on emotion, he was wrong in doing so and for that he is being punished.

It's funny how when writing on a forum everything is cut and dry, legally I can do this, this is illegal etc. etc but yet when a cager cuts someone off (by mistake) everyone sees red. Everyone wants to rip off that cars mirror.

It's easy to say what you would do in hindsight but I am honest in my views and have no problems saying that if someone disrespects me or my stuff they will get a beat down or I will go down trying. I will not be standing there thinking of the consequences and try to figure out what I am legally allowed to do.

Hopefully you guys will not have to experience something like that but I doubt you will act as clear and calm as you do writing replies. I'm sure your heads and hearts are in the right place but we'll see......

She may have been a lippy punk (I'd probably go as far as making the assumption) and she did break the law by assaulting him. I'm not trying to make her out into a little angel. However, don't forget:
1) There was no imminent danger of harm to the cop's person or property. By that definition, all he would have been allowed to do is restrain her.
2) His response to the level of threat was GROSSLY excessive.
3) He abused his position to beat down a person just because she was "lippy and disrespectful," which should escalate the criminal charges laid against him in my opinion.
Hypothetical situations to prove the abuse of authority:
1) If a random person on the street jumped on me, kicked me, knocked me down and started punching me, I'd be fully justified to reciprocate and give him a dose of his own medicine until he's either unwilling or unable to continue being a threat to my personal safety.
2) Now what would happen if "random person" happened to be an RCMP constable and "the street" happened to be a police station. I'd end up being the object of taser target practice for constables, supervisory staff, administrative staff and cleaning ladies.
Situation #2 stems from the fact that a police constable is given certain powers by the nature of his/her position. If they abuse those powers and violate the law, they should be subject to stricter punishment than the "random dude" in situation #1. At least I'm able to defend myself from his assault.

[FiReSTaRT]

If his emotions and self-control are that fragile, he shouldn't have passed psych eval. There have been times where I have been pushed (even kicked) by a person trying to pick a fight with me and I didn't do anything even though I could have taken the person and am not afraid of fighting when it's necessary. Of course, the circumstances were where the initial assault wouldn't have escalated into more without me taking retaliatory action. I have been in his shoes and acted with more decorum even though he's the one with the gun, the badge and a station full of armed buddies.

[Karl]

Not so, the psych eval is conducted during the application process,I passed mine,

Again, he was "assaulted" and responded.

You must be a very cool cat......

I'm just gonna stop now, this has run it's course.......I'll reply in a few years when Malika is charged with a serious crime, since now she's this victim, but everyone disregards the fact that she is a troubled teen.

Happy Father's Day!!!

If his emotions and self-control are that fragile, he shouldn't have passed psych eval. There have been times where I have been pushed (even kicked) by a person trying to pick a fight with me and I didn't do anything even though I could have taken the person and am not afraid of fighting when it's necessary. Of course, the circumstances were where the initial assault wouldn't have escalated into more without me taking retaliatory action. I have been in his shoes and acted with more decorum even though he's the one with the gun, the badge and a station full of armed buddies.

[Centrefold]

Not everyone... I'm on your side.

As a private guard at Jane/Finch we deal with that **** all the time. I can't even begin to fathom what the popos have to go through day in and day out. Can't judge until you walk in their shoes.

But I also agree that the beat down was more on the severe side.

Not so, the psych eval is conducted during the application process,I passed mine,

Again, he was "assaulted" and responded.

You must be a very cool cat......

I'm just gonna stop now, this has run it's course.......I'll reply in a few years when Malika is charged with a serious crime, since now she's this victim, but everyone disregards the fact that she is a troubled teen.

Happy Father's Day!!!

[Rob MacLennan]

There are two laws - one for coppers and one for us. Guess which law the coppers get.....

That said - a cop busted an unmarked car doing some crazy a** speed on a 400 highwaqy - and laid a racing charge. The unmarked car had no reason to speed. The driver (a woman) was convicted - oh, yeah - the popo force was down one car for 7 days - priceless.

I have a relative who knows several cops in TPS, Durham, York - yeah, he says the cops themselves know they can get away with more....the cop that busted the other cop was an exception....

I'm leery of them for sure.

They parked the car for 7 days. It didn't happen immediately after the car was stopped. The officer didn't have to cool her heels at the side of the road while waiting for someone to picker her up. The officer didn't have to pay an impound fee (it was in their own yard). It was all for show.

[Rob MacLennan]

Not so, the psych eval is conducted during the application process,I passed mine,

Again, he was "assaulted" and responded.

You must be a very cool cat......

I'm just gonna stop now, this has run it's course.......I'll reply in a few years when Malika is charged with a serious crime, since now she's this victim, but everyone disregards the fact that she is a troubled teen.

Happy Father's Day!!!

You are permitted to use sufficient force to stave off an assault; no more. The officer was well outside use of force guidelines and actually committed an assault, himself. He beat a girl who was held helpless on the floor. How anyone could see that as being in scale with her original actions is beyond me.

He would have been within his rights and duties to restrain her, then cuff her in order to avoid future outbursts. He clearly acted in a fashion that was unreasonable.

[shicksr6]

Not so, the psych eval is conducted during the application process,I passed mine,

Again, he was "assaulted" and responded.

You must be a very cool cat......

I'm just gonna stop now, this has run it's course.......I'll reply in a few years when Malika is charged with a serious crime, since now she's this victim, but everyone disregards the fact that she is a troubled teen.

Happy Father's Day!!!

You dont hto be a cool cat not to respond in the manner that the police did! The officer "should" be more mature and more in control of his actions than a raging teenager. Despite of what police go through day in and day out its their job and it doesn't entail taking a bad day out on a helpless 15 year old. While you were working and the punk kids grafitied and told you to eff of why not beat em?

[dankyyz]

+ 100%. Dont faint....

Pushing her back, cuffing would have been acceptable. I dont think anyone should think it's ok to be nasty to a cop when all they were doing was telling her to take her shoes off.

But to manhandle her as he did, and then take shots on her while sitting on her back, and then pick her up with her hair was a total case of a guy who cant control himself.

Face to face with someone, gun drawn, i would not give him good chances of doing the right thing.

You are permitted to use sufficient force to stave off an assault; no more. The officer was well outside use of force guidelines and actually committed an assault, himself. He beat a girl who was held helpless on the floor. How anyone could see that as being in scale with her original actions is beyond me.

He would have been within his rights and duties to restrain her, then cuff her in order to avoid future outbursts. He clearly acted in a fashion that was unreasonable.

[dankyyz]

I think the entire issue comes down to professionalisim. some guys are just really crappy salesmen, some guys just cant seem to master a fork lift, some are bad managers, and this guy is a hack cop.

I wouldnt be able to look myself in the mirror after loosing it like that.

Now some 250 LB crackehad that wont go into the cell without taking a swing at me....maybe.

You dont hto be a cool cat not to respond in the manner that the police did! The officer "should" be more mature and more in control of his actions than a raging teenager. Despite of what police go through day in and day out its their job and it doesn't entail taking a bad day out on a helpless 15 year old. While you were working and the punk kids grafitied and told you to eff of why not beat em?

[LMF]

The cop did go overboard with the shots to the head but the rest Malika kinda deserved it. She is obviously fine in her interview.......actually she is acting totally innocent. Technically what she did was assault and if that cop did nothing a few years from now she would even get worse.

For those of you who have kids......would they have kicked off their shoes at someone? Let alone a police officer?

If Malika did that to Shaquina......there would be some head bustin'

Your logic is perverse.

Malika did nothing to the police officer that merited the response he took. He brutally attacked her and slammed her head against the wall and punched her several times while she was lying on the ground.

Why do you think the police officer was charged with assault???????????????

[Thatgirl]

You are permitted to use sufficient force to stave off an assault; no more. The officer was well outside use of force guidelines and actually committed an assault, himself. He beat a girl who was held helpless on the floor. How anyone could see that as being in scale with her original actions is beyond me.

He would have been within his rights and duties to restrain her, then cuff her in order to avoid future outbursts. He clearly acted in a fashion that was unreasonable.

thank you for the addresses Chingo_HD and Rob I agree completely! Karl, I am just curious to know how come in your fictious scenario you named the other character Shaquina and not something generic like Mary or Dawn? It made me raised my eyebrow...