Let N00bs Learn the Hard Way

[Kri$han]

Holy crap, things have changed. And not for the better it seems. I'm clearly mistaken, everyone is entitled to have a motorcycle license, regardless of ability or competency.

Buddy.

Let the license tests determine ability and competency; that's what they're designed to do.

I've seen people fail those tests a few times over, so clearly not EVERYONE can do it, either.

[Declan Gunn]

A little late on replying.

No, you are wrong and I am right. If you take two riders of the same experience level and same riding style, put one on a touring bike and the other on a sport bike and they continue riding the same way, the sport bike rider will be "safer" because the sport bike has a better ability to avoid danger than the touring bike.

I can't agree with that example.... at all.

Motorcycles don't avoid danger, the rider does. Here, you're giving way too much credit to the motorcycle. Its the rider's input and experience that determines who stays on 2 wheels and who doesn't.

And, using your "logic"... if you're riding a touring bike, you wouldn't be doing the same speeds/accelerations as you would a speed bike - hence you would automatically be put in a "safer" riding scenario.

I'd only agree to your statement if you were referring to a moto-terminator.

[Cobourg Monster]

My brother in-law did this. Wont give to much detail in case he's on here. Now he's scared of the bike and hardly rides. Its a waste of money and a great machine.

[Shreddies]

I've grown weary of seeing/telling new riders what not to buy and criticize their purchase decision. I say, let Darwin's theory sort them out and have them learn the hard way.

90% of the time they've already bought it, are too stubborn to take advice, or too cocky to take advice. Either way - they won't listen to you or me. It's the big red button theory: tell someone not to push it no matter what, and they'll push it the second you turn your back.

Tell a noob that they shouldn't buy an R1 because their a noob, mommy daddy will probably buy it because mommy or daddy doesn't know any better.

Now, this excludes those who ask "is this a good starter bike?" because clearly they don't know any better. but they asked, so they deserve every bit of advice we can give them.

But if someone has to buy a 1000rr as a new bike (a friend of mine did, first bike, doesn't even have his license, never rode before) he turned away when I gave him advice, claiming i was 'jealous' that he had a bigger supersport than I did. i've come across that attitude with a lot of new riders. I even offered to give him lessons on my old bike but he refused.

So to those who are too smug, cocky and impotent to research their motorcycle purchase and refuse to take experienced riders' advice: let them learn the hard way.


Discuss and agree or disagree with my partially-ethical opinion.

theyre just misinformed, we're saving lives.

[adamwest]

My brother in-law did this. Wont give to much detail in case he's on here. Now he's scared of the bike and hardly rides. Its a waste of money and a great machine.

damn shame. i'd be willing to take it out for him. just in case he feels it needs to be run a little. pm me.

[homme de fer]

I can't agree with that example.... at all.

Motorcycles don't avoid danger, the rider does. Here, you're giving way too much credit to the motorcycle. Its the rider's input and experience that determines who stays on 2 wheels and who doesn't.

And, using your "logic"... if you're riding a touring bike, you wouldn't be doing the same speeds/accelerations as you would a speed bike - hence you would automatically be put in a "safer" riding scenario.

I'd only agree to your statement if you were referring to a moto-terminator.

Man, this thing is stale. What I said is:

"2 riders of the same experience level and riding style..."

That means, if you take two people of the same experience level and riding style, the rider on the bike most capable of avoiding a collision is more likely to avoid a collision.

[CBRJOHN]

Let the license tests determine ability and competency; that's what they're designed to do.

That's Funny



Buy a 250, They're much safer to crash into a car or pole with at 140kph than a bigger bike.

[vinne]

My mircowave says magnatron1000 on it. Does that mean it's not a good 'starter' microwave.

Give the advice and if they listen they listen, if they don't they don't. I listened, somewhat and I'm still kickin.

[GTASynthetics]

When I am trying to pick up chicks the magnatron1000 makes my ego feel bigger, the magnatron250 is technically a quarter of the coolness, and since after I destroy this microwave I won't be able to afford another, so might as well go big or go home.

[skip]

I just wish people learned how to use the search function.

[Hachi-Roku]

If you are in favor of the 'Darwin way'.. keep these two things in mind.

You will be eventually priced out of the sport by increased insurance rates. It's happening now, and will continue to happen, to the detriment of everyone in the sport - not just the crashers, a lot of whom don't even get hit by insurance increases caused by their own screw up, because they said buh-bye after the crash.

You will be affected by increased government legislation, telling you what, when and where you can ride - _more_ so than now. Enforcement Ticketitis will similarly increase.

What do you want to ***** about really? Your peers dispensing good advice out of their good/bad experiences, or being priced/legislated out of the game entirely by Big Bro?

Your choice.

I've made mine, and i'll continue to pass judgement/advice to the less experienced, thanks.

+1.

[vinne]

When I am trying to pick up chicks the magnatron1000 makes my ego feel bigger, the magnatron250 is technically a quarter of the coolness, and since after I destroy this microwave I won't be able to afford another, so might as well go big or go home.

chicks dig nuked food.

[arazumien]

Completely agree with you Declan Gunn. I am no experience rider, hell, I don't even own my first bike yet. But from doing my research and taking advice from those who have been riding for years I know. However, I know a lot of friends and others who want to start riding...but won't listen, and won't start riding till they get there 600 or 1000 SS.

+1

[lraponi]

I've grown weary of seeing/telling new riders what not to buy and criticize their purchase decision. I say, let Darwin's theory sort them out and have them learn the hard way.

90% of the time they've already bought it, are too stubborn to take advice, or too cocky to take advice. Either way - they won't listen to you or me. It's the big red button theory: tell someone not to push it no matter what, and they'll push it the second you turn your back.

Tell a noob that they shouldn't buy an R1 because their a noob, mommy daddy will probably buy it because mommy or daddy doesn't know any better.

Now, this excludes those who ask "is this a good starter bike?" because clearly they don't know any better. but they asked, so they deserve every bit of advice we can give them.

But if someone has to buy a 1000rr as a new bike (a friend of mine did, first bike, doesn't even have his license, never rode before) he turned away when I gave him advice, claiming i was 'jealous' that he had a bigger supersport than I did. i've come across that attitude with a lot of new riders. I even offered to give him lessons on my old bike but he refused.

So to those who are too smug, cocky and impotent to research their motorcycle purchase and refuse to take experienced riders' advice: let them learn the hard way.


Discuss and agree or disagree with my partially-ethical opinion.

Well, part of me agrees with you, and part of me doesn't. I agree that people will do what they want, sometimes, regardless of what others tell them. However, we cannot "give up" on these people and simply let darwin's theory sort things out. Why? because we all have a stake in these stupid riders...it's in our best interest to keep ALL motorcyclists as safe as possible. Why? one thing is just plain morality; you should never stop caring about helping people, even if they don't want your help/advice.
Secondly (for those of you who need numbers and dollar signs) OUR INSURANCE is based on statistics (including the stupid ones, such as noobs with 1k SS's) therefore, even from a financial standpoint, it makes sense not to turn our back on these delinquents. Ultimately, giving advice to someone could end up saving their life, and lessen our insurance, so we should do everything we can.

I will say one other thing though. People sometimes come on forums and talk about getting a 1k SS as their first bike (you know the type). While some people offer good advice, the majority of people just flame the OP. And this does noting but re-affirm their initial choice. It seems as though we're all a little guilty some something aren't we....

[lraponi]

PS, I went from a ninja 250r, right to a ducati 848...both me AND my bike are still alive, and I have friends, as well as you people (at least in part) to thank for this...

[Andreas]

Yeah.. it's hard to judge because some people will buy a crazy bike and ride it without getting themselves or others into danger. THey ride it at their ability, have huge "chicken strips" and just enjoy motorcycling.

Grouprides tend to make things a little more interesting. So, at the same token, I think it's wrong to say "let them do what they want" because they might be decent people and pull up to a groupride on their 1000cc bike and then stuff it hard because everyone assumed they were a great rider, pulling up on a shiny new bike.

Stuff can happen anywhere, but i find it usually goes wrong on group rides when someone plays catch up or is going at the pace of someone with a lot more experience.

IN some ways, riding motorcycles is kinda like music -- some people are naturally gifted, others aren't and need to work on it. Whether it's a first bike or a 3rd bike and several crashes later.