Reply With Quote+1,....
hey i agree with you .. don't even know how to walk but already trying to run .... controlling the power is controlling himself ...
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I've grown weary of seeing/telling new riders what not to buy and criticize their purchase decision. I say, let Darwin's theory sort them out and have them learn the hard way.
90% of the time they've already bought it, are too stubborn to take advice, or too cocky to take advice. Either way - they won't listen to you or me. It's the big red button theory: tell someone not to push it no matter what, and they'll push it the second you turn your back.
Tell a noob that they shouldn't buy an R1 because their a noob, mommy daddy will probably buy it because mommy or daddy doesn't know any better.
Now, this excludes those who ask "is this a good starter bike?" because clearly they don't know any better. but they asked, so they deserve every bit of advice we can give them.
But if someone has to buy a 1000rr as a new bike (a friend of mine did, first bike, doesn't even have his license, never rode before) he turned away when I gave him advice, claiming i was 'jealous' that he had a bigger supersport than I did. i've come across that attitude with a lot of new riders. I even offered to give him lessons on my old bike but he refused.
So to those who are too smug, cocky and impotent to research their motorcycle purchase and refuse to take experienced riders' advice: let them learn the hard way.
Discuss and agree or disagree with my partially-ethical opinion.
Last edited by Declan Gunn; 05-28-2009 at 03:32 PM.
The funk. The jive. The boogie. The rock and roll.
+1,....
hey i agree with you .. don't even know how to walk but already trying to run .... controlling the power is controlling himself ...
2007 CBR 125 my Bicycle
2003 R1 two words (oh baby)
2003 R6 (Miss her daily)
I, too, believe in letting Darwin sort these people out, but not if they're going to cause harm to other pedestrians/drivers out there.
If people ask for advice, I'll certainly give it. But then are those people who say they're "looking for advice", and really all they want is for people to endorse their position of buying some SS as a starter. As soon as anyone tells 'em it's not such a hot idea, they're full of rationalizations and justifications as to why they're the exception. At that point....I stop bothering with them.
I agree. If someone asks for advice then disregards it then they were never asking for advice; they were asking for confirmation.
Myself personally, I know what limits I have for skills on a bike, that's why I ride an ex500 even after 21 years of riding. Sure, I can afford an r6 or fireblade or whatever, but I am also aware that it (the power) could get me into a lot more trouble than it is worth (to me).
Oomis - "It's a brilliant character bike. It won't be the fastest bike on the street, nor the lightest, nor the best handling, but with pipes it'll sound like God's coming to dinner and he doesn't like what's on the table."
Bro, I've read, I've listened. I'm a noob. I bought a ZZR250. It worked for me! My decision was largely based on what GTAM people had to say.
Don't get discouraged. Even if you manage to convince 1 person out of 10 it's still worth it.
I probably will buy something with larger displacement next year but I'll still be a strong advocate of small bikes for rookies. I find it very easy to learn on my motorcycle and I'm never scared that I will blip the throttle and go flying at some wild angle.
Sure I can't keep up with my buddy who's got a RC51 but last time I checked my ego it was still fine and dandy.
What a dumb post this is. What are you guys the motorcycle police, or motorcycle experts just cause you have a few years on a bike? Please.
A bike is a bike, power or no power, ur on 2 wheels, ur just as likely to wipe out on a scooter if ur not careful.
The size of the bike is dependant on the person and there personality. If your likely the type of person to take chances or participate in risky behaviour, it doesn't matter how much experience you have, **** happens, and it can happen in many sports.
Riding a big bike doesn't automatically mean your asking for trouble, it just means that you have to be more cautious with how you ride it, but that goes with any bike.
I started on an R6, never rode a bike in my life, and never crashed it, until I started experimenting and pushing myself. I would have crashed regardless of the bike I was riding. I mountain bike too, ride on trails, take jumps, and have wiped out bad, broken finger and dislocated shoulder, was that because I was riding a Specialized Stump Jumper 1000cc? No it was because I decided to push myself, and would have fallen either way, even if I was riding on a lesser of a bike.
"RIDE AMONG US"
Glad i was the 10%. GTAM helped me out so much in terms of everything i needed to get on the road! And i appreciate it a lot!
Originally Posted by SONIC6
so your saying motorcycle riding experience has little to do with it? how naive. taking chances is only one factor that leads to accidents - the other is not knowing how to react, or reacting imporperly to an emergency situation. that comes with experience. **** happens, but sometimes you can avoid stepping in it.
riding a bike bike with almost nil experience is more than likely to lead to trouble.
smaller bikes are more forgiving... if you accidentally dump the clutch on a 125, chances are you won't go very far, but on a 1000cc SS? i've seen people freeze like a deer in headlights while riding a 250, barrelling down the parking lot not knowing what to do. imagine if they were on even a 600 SS.....
Last edited by Declan Gunn; 05-28-2009 at 12:08 PM.
The funk. The jive. The boogie. The rock and roll.
But wouldnt you agree that with a more powerful bike that has much less error window and isnt that forgiving its more tempting to push to higher margins? Noone says its bad to buy a 1000cc and of course you can crash on mopeds but how much difference in terms of prevention and avoidance is between these 2 rides?
If you are in favor of the 'Darwin way'.. keep these two things in mind.
You will be eventually priced out of the sport by increased insurance rates. It's happening now, and will continue to happen, to the detriment of everyone in the sport - not just the crashers, a lot of whom don't even get hit by insurance increases caused by their own screw up, because they said buh-bye after the crash.
You will be affected by increased government legislation, telling you what, when and where you can ride - _more_ so than now. Enforcement Ticketitis will similarly increase.
What do you want to ***** about really? Your peers dispensing good advice out of their good/bad experiences, or being priced/legislated out of the game entirely by Big Bro?
Your choice.
I've made mine, and i'll continue to pass judgement/advice to the less experienced, thanks.
'99 Suzuki Bandit 1200 - '88 Hannigan Comet chair
At the end of the day, people are responsible for themselves. However amount of risk they want to take is entirely up to them. And this is not exclusive to new riders, but anyone that rides.
Just give advice when solicited. If you are disagreed with, just shrug, and move on.
Agreed. You cannot tell everyone all the time. Let them figure it out. That's how evolution worked. The caveman who didn't mess around with the Sabre Tooth usually lives longer.
No I dont agree. Gas up a 250 and dump the clutch and its landing on your head. The most important part to riding ANYTHING, is understanding how to ride it first. If you can get through that, then the rest is up to you, the person, and far your willing to take yourself on any bike. Prevention and avoidance is a riders decision, not the bikes.
"RIDE AMONG US"
I think you said it yourself. The point that is being made here is that you "pushed yourself" and crashed your bike. If you were experienced you wouldn't have crashed it because you would have known what you were doing.
It's not that people can't fast in a straight line. That is the easy part.
If you have a chance to learn on something smaller you get to learn the dynamics of the bike, and can learn and improve on things that will help you on a bigger bike. a 125 or 250 will handle like a charm and are very unforgiving, so even though you have an r6, there are tonnes of people with 250r's that will kill you at the track on on twisties because they learned how to ride a bike properly and take advantage of the excellent learning capabilities of a smaller bike.
and that, is why i like to laugh at people with r6's making bicycle turns around corners. bonus points however for being a gino, or having a loud exhaust.
What a dumb post this is. Not everybody is a superstar, you know. A 1000SS is almost the motorcycle equivilant of an F1 car. You wouldn't unleash a new driver in an F1 car, would you?
He would. then he would crash it 100 yards in, and then say he's a prostar because he crashed it, and if he keeps crashing it he will get better.
The best way to learn is jump right into it, and crash it.
Wrong, ur jumping the gun my friend. I was experienced by the time I crashed my bike, and it was at the track. So you mean to tell everyone here that experienced riders dont't crash? Everybody crashes, even the pros, when you push too much things can go wrong, mechanically or just plain rider error. Learning on a smaller bike has it's advantages, but that doesn't mean that it's going to make you better rider overall. Some people have the ability to pick up any sport and naturally excel, regardless of age or experience. I'm not saying that I am great, or know it all, but was able to take it to the track, and dance around guys who supposedly have been riding there whole life, from 250's to dirt bike and everything else.
And then you go on to say that 250's will kill people at the track. Yes they do, but because they know how to ride, not because it has tonnes of power. So because it's a 250, does that mean they are less likely to get into trouble at at track or get up to dangerous speeds? Not a chance, they are moving at speeds equal to a 1000, and dually in a position to crash, regardless of their experience or the size of their bike.
It's a matter of choices that you the rider makes, not the bikes.
"RIDE AMONG US"
Your comparing apples and oranges. The weight to power ratio may be close, but an F1 car is not designed for road use, and doesn't conform to a traditional car that can be operated by anyone. A streetbike does, whether is's a 1000 or a 100, they both operate in the same manner.
Last edited by SONIC6; 05-28-2009 at 12:29 PM.
"RIDE AMONG US"
Honest question: how do you feel about displacement restrictions based on age/experience/etc.?
Pushing the limits on a bike that is less sensitive to inputs allows the rider to slow down the lesson, and experience the subtleties of what is going on.
With less sensitive inputs, you can experience the threshhold, internalize it, and then back off. On a more sensitive bike, it is more difficult to figure out where that threshhold is b/c everything happens so quickly.
It is only after developing the skills to recognize the limit, that you'll be able to properly handle the speed at which the limit comes (on a more sensitive bike).
You can still learn on an SS, it just takes so much longer b/c you have to overshoot the limit, then undershoot, then repeat until you start to recognize it.
Last edited by x86ect; 05-28-2009 at 02:20 PM.
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