Rotella oil

[OriginalSin]

x2.



I think Robbert was talking to me and not Kellen.

I have repaired the Oil pan situation myself. I appreciate the offer of replacing these seals (Though I'm unsure why the Drive shaft and Shift shaft seals specifically) I am a weary fellow when it comes to shops with both my bike and my car with which I care for greatly. Robbert is a good fellow but I have experienced more then just this one negative from his service, and I'd prefer to do my own work when I can and save the more advanced stuff for someone more familiar with my age and model of bike.
Regarding the Full Synthetic in an old engine....I have tried Full Synthetic in 3 old Car motors....all with high mileage...all never having seen a drop of Full Synthetic. All 3 had leaks afterwards. My brothers Vehicle aswell. Now my bike.
Yes. Full Synthetics don't CAUSE leaks....but they make them apparent...and I'd rather use Dino oil and keep it inside the engine then use Full Synthetic and have it leak to the outside.

just to be clear.. old engines can take synthetic.. I had an 88 honda hurricane that took full syn (after the break in) with no leaks from start to 60k, when I sold it.

the problems come switching from a regularly dino-oiled engine to syn, where the explanations given are correct regarding seal degradation.

[slowbird]

i've been using rotella in my 1990 honda for the last year and a half and who knows what the importer had in them before.

i cruise at 8,000rpm anywhere and 12,000 on the highway for hours at a time.

no issues so far.

Every bike and Motor is different. The issue with using Full Synthetic in old motors has been a much discussed topic in the Motorsports community. Some people have been able to get away with it....all the situations I have seen personally have not.

Usually the excuse is: "oh...the seals were old...it would have leaked anyways."
But we'll never know now will we?

When any of my friends/acquaintances ask me if they should use Synthetic in their bikes/cars I always ask: "What year is the car and what's the mileage?"
Just recently my father asked me the same thing...150,000kms+ on his Protege..."Matt...should I use Full Synthetic now?"
I referred him to my Brother who had similar mileage and started using Full Synthetic....almost right away he started leaking AND Burning Oil.

But it's not a constant thing in the universe...just a precaution.

[slowbird]

just to be clear.. old engines can take synthetic..

the problems come switching from a regularly dino-oiled engine to syn, where the explanations given are correct regarding seal degradation.

Old Engines "can" take Synthetic....but the next sentences says otherwise....what do you mean?
Respectfully

[OriginalSin]

Old Engines "can" take Synthetic....but the next sentences says otherwise....what do you mean?
Respectfully

you either have to give them syn from the start.. or
change up all the seals as a precaution (which is a pain in the *** to say the least).

the issue has nothing to do with the engine itself, just the seals.

seems to me you already did the oilpan, and Pannon is offering to do the others for you- I say go for it. After a couple changes (to get the old gunk out) you'll notice the difference. In some cases you'll even notice lower operating temps.



LD

[slowbird]

you either have to give them syn from the start.. or
change up all the seals as a precaution (which is a pain in the *** to say the least).

the issue has nothing to do with the engine itself, just the seals.

seems to me you already did the oilpan, and Pannon is offering to do the others for you- I say go for it. After a couple changes (to get the old gunk out) you'll notice the difference. In some cases you'll even notice lower operating temps.

LD

Ah! Ok....I understand now.

No...you are absolutely correct....it's not the Engine...it's the seals.

I'm mainly worried about the Valve seals....the Engine has started getting a bit chatty sounding since my trip and smells a bit of burning oil. (Didn't burning a single drop during my east coast trip) I've seen situations of the valve seals going on old motors Post Full Synthetic and that's something I don't want to get into.

I'm happy with the Motul oil I've been using and I haven't had one issue with the 20,000kms I've put on the bike using that oil.
Coming up to 60,000kms...I had Full Synthetic in there for not even 5k...the oil pan starts leaking and the bike starts burning oil a bit. I have Motul back in there and using a tip from a VF500 Guru I'm putting in slightly heavier weight oil.

[OriginalSin]

Ah! Ok....I understand now.

No...you are absolutely correct....it's not the Engine...it's the seals.

I'm mainly worried about the Valve seals....the Engine has started getting a bit chatty sounding since my trip and smells a bit of burning oil. (Didn't burning a single drop during my east coast trip) I've seen situations of the valve seals going on old motors Post Full Synthetic and that's something I don't want to get into.

I'm happy with the Motul oil I've been using and I haven't had one issue with the 20,000kms I've put on the bike using that oil.
Coming up to 60,000kms...I had Full Synthetic in there for not even 5k...the oil pan starts leaking and the bike starts burning oil a bit. I have Motul back in there and using a tip from a VF500 Guru I'm putting in slightly heavier weight oil.

wow valves too eh? when was the last time you did a valve job on the bike..? if it's due anyways..

the oil that burning off is probably the deposits off your seals (not 100% sure but if your bike wasn't burning oil before, there's no reason why it would suddenly be burning synthetic.)

heavier oil is just a band aid solution and ultimately if you keep doing that you're adding the deposits in your engine. not a good idea if you wanna keep that vintage bike!

[~/\L! G~]

i think i have 2 or 3 5W40 rotella's for sale...i find my bike likes mutol.

PM me for details

[slowbird]

wow valves too eh? when was the last time you did a valve job on the bike..? if it's due anyways..

the oil that burning off is probably the deposits off your seals (not 100% sure but if your bike wasn't burning oil before, there's no reason why it would suddenly be burning synthetic.)

heavier oil is just a band aid solution and ultimately if you keep doing that you're adding the deposits in your engine. not a good idea if you wanna keep that vintage bike!

A valve adjustment.....was supposedly done before I purchased the bike over 20,000kms ago. But apparently as the Honda V-Four 500 gets older Valve Adjustments become more crucial.

But valve seals....who knows....like I said...I've seen Synthetic wash 'em away on car engines....but who knows. I'd rather not risk it.

It works fine with Motul

[pfbmgd]

Most people are over kill with oil .I admit I was that way for years .I have my Vf500 for 40k on regular dino with no problems .I tried Motul on my GSXR and it sucked .After a few hot days it felt like there was water in the crank .I think I used regular Sunoco oil in the GXSR and it worked great .Now on my VFR I tried the Motul Semi .It seams like it`s working OK .I`m at 3K and so far an it`s holding up.I doubt I will go to full synthetic.FOr most riders there is no need .

I remember reading a write up on synthetic .The only place it won over dino oil was real cold start ups .I doubt any biker rides their bike at -20 .

[KLR-Andy]

A valve adjustment.....was supposedly done before I purchased the bike over 20,000kms ago. But apparently as the Honda V-Four 500 gets older Valve Adjustments become more crucial.

But valve seals....who knows....like I said...I've seen Synthetic wash 'em away on car engines....but who knows. I'd rather not risk it.

It works fine with Motul

Synthetic oil does not wash seals away.

Using dino oil builds up sludge at the seals, it hardens and wears the seals, but with the sludge it does not leak and rattle.

Now you change to synthetic, it washes the sludge away and dissolves the cake that was there, now you have a leak and rattling.

Synthetic does not create the leak or rattle, Sludge does, but it is nice about it and fills the leak, Synthetic just washes the sh1t away.

[KLR-Andy]

Most people are over kill with oil .I admit I was that way for years .I have my Vf500 for 40k on regular dino with no problems .I tried Motul on my GSXR and it sucked .After a few hot days it felt like there was water in the crank .I think I used regular Sunoco oil in the GXSR and it worked great .Now on my VFR I tried the Motul Semi .It seams like it`s working OK .I`m at 3K and so far an it`s holding up.I doubt I will go to full synthetic.FOr most riders there is no need .

I remember reading a write up on synthetic .The only place it won over dino oil was real cold start ups .I doubt any biker rides their bike at -20 .

Plus mixing condensation with synthetic oil does not cause sludge.

If you want, take a look at a 5-10 year old, mostly city driven car with dino oil and remove the oil filler cap, look inside the cap and you see gunk/sludge, do the same to a car with full Synthetic like Mobil and it is clean.

[slowbird]

Synthetic oil does not wash seals away.

Using dino oil builds up sludge at the seals, it hardens and wears the seals, but with the sludge it does not leak and rattle.

Now you change to synthetic, it washes the sludge away and dissolves the cake that was there, now you have a leak and rattling.

Synthetic does not create the leak or rattle, Sludge does, but it is nice about it and fills the leak, Synthetic just washes the sh1t away.

Yea...I thought we came to the consensus that Full Synthetic washes the gunk away, it doesn't actually "cause" leaks.

My old turbo sunbird started to burn oil on start up after using Full Synthetic.
I pulled the pan one day and found a **** load of seals

[slowbird]

For the record...on a brand new (after break in) or almost new vehicle/motor I would use Full Synthetic oil. I do so for my car. Mobil1 Full Synthetic and I even get the Mobil 1 or Pureone oil filters from the states.

Just using it in an old motor is where I get skittish

[Zed-X-Rex]

Now im scared to put synthetic in my cadavalier with 210k.....

[slowbird]

Now im scared to put synthetic in my cadavalier with 210k.....

Your Chevy Cavalier with 210k?

I wouldn't.

[OriginalSin]

Now im scared to put synthetic in my cadavalier with 210k.....

lol.. forget the oil .. I'd be scared to drive a cavalier with 210k!

[frekeyguy]

Now im scared to put synthetic in my cadavalier with 210k.....

I wouldn't run full synthetic in the older car....it's not used to it...it may leak it out of various places. But if your car doesn't leak or has any blow by I would run it. A good compression test should be done.

EG. My Jimmy with 276K, if I run full synthetic it loves it, but my rear main seal as well as the oil cooler lines are a tad leaky, so with full synthetic is leaks all the oil otta those seals and lines. SO I just run reg. dino.

[Zed-X-Rex]

Id run rotella dino in the cars all the time, but the 15w cold viscosity is too thick for winter no?

[frekeyguy]

Id run rotella dino in the cars all the time, but the 15w cold viscosity is too thick for winter no?

I thought I shouldn't use the Reg. Rotella T in my car? as it a diesel oil which lacks the detergent package that 'car' based oil's have?

The cavalier...yeah 15W40 would be way too thick in the cold weather, I think they use 5w30 no??

I would run the cheap oil on sale at walmart, they have the Castrol GTX 5W40 for $11.99 often....+ fram (quality concern) or NAPA filter for $6. So for about $20 oil changed....do it every 3500k...and you won't have internal issues.

[Zed-X-Rex]

I thought I shouldn't use the Reg. Rotella T in my car? as it a diesel oil which lacks the detergent package that 'car' based oil's have?

The cavalier...yeah 15W40 would be way too thick in the cold weather, I think they use 5w30 no??

I would run the cheap oil on sale at walmart, they have the Castrol GTX 5W40 for $11.99 often....+ fram (quality concern) or NAPA filter for $6. So for about $20 oil changed....do it every 3500k...and you won't have internal issues.

Calsci writeup said rotella dino was fine. Been using it for about 6k in the cav, my bros been usin it for 15k in his dodge ram (gas) n i just put it in my civic. No problems. Btw, the rotella has a better additive package than 5-30 car oil. It doesnt have friction modifiers tgough, but i dont care. Im driving to pei on friday. 18 hours and 1800 kms. Then comin back a week later. Ill let you know if my motor blows up..