Duhamel's chances

[freedomfighter]

Not really eh?

I mean really it was Top 37 finishing within 30 seconds off the leader after 6 laps of racing.

The yellow flags were like the plague at the end. It seems like they were trying to find any reason to throw them. I wonder if anyone at the track noticed the difference in lighting.... it would be interesting to hear what they say. Plus the second yellow just made no sense. The pack was bunched up anyway.... how hard would it have been to move the bike by hand to a safer spot a little further up the track in the 1 minute or so it would take for the leaders to come back around. Keep the corner under a local yellow until it is OK to pass again.
.

most likely its cause they dont have enough corner workers to do that.less and less people are comming out to help.
and as far as the gap..well its simple really. to many people nowadays relly on money to make them fast and not skill.. real racers are slowly dieing out.

[havin_fun]

most likely its cause they dont have enough corner workers to do that.less and less people are comming out to help.
and as far as the gap..well its simple really. to many people nowadays relly on money to make them fast and not skill.. real racers are slowly dieing out.

There was a time when no one, including the track owners and promoters made much money from racing. Virtually everyone in the racing industry had a day-job, or was happy making a meager living following "the circus". It was essentially advertising for the manufacturers, a fair living for the factory riders/crews and an expensive hobby for the rest of the grid. People would volunteer to do cornerwork to save a few bucks, get the best seat in the house and support the sport.

Looking specifically at AMA now, DMG obviously expects to make big profits from racing, as do the track owners and other "partners". NASCAR and F1 did it (for a while...), why not for bikes as well?

If DMG is like most racing orgs, they expect volunteer corner workers to work for free admission and a sandwich lunch. Perhaps some key personnel get paid, but if people aren't "coming out" to do the thankless hours of corner work anymore, it may be because they are feeling their contribution is undervalued by the organizers. Especially if everyone else off-track is getting well paid.

----------------
So during what time period would you say all the riders on the grid for the final "deserved to be there". Pre-War? Hailwood/Agostini era? Roberts/Spencer? Lawson/Rainey/Doohan/Schwantz/Gardner? Surprise, the grid-fillers pay the bills, no matter how they get there. And since it is their job to pay the bills, funny thing, racers with money will make it onto the grid for the final. Any that don't get to the "big show" stop showing up fairly quickly, especially if they are paying out of their own pocket. A race series with only those who can avoid being lapped is a series that goes broke. Unless it is essentially "staged" via the rules, a la NASCAR.

And we all know how bike racers and fans feel about the NASCAR formula...

[nokturnal]

From someone who has raced Daytona with rolling starts and safety cars I can tell you first hand that its freakin awkward for the rider. The car holds 90mph but feels like its stopped. Guys are told to roll up and form in whatever order we are in and the passenger will waive you by till he picks up the leader then you have to haul ***** to get back in line before they go green.
The biggest problem is the guys at the back cant see the flag when it goes green. We had onboard radios where the crew chief can hollar gogogogo.
I have to say the rolling starts are way safer coming in to T1 but more boring to watch.
Personally I love the new format. The mix of bikes was fun a Buell a couple R6s and a GSXR are fighting it out at the front. It was kinda neat at night too.
Much better than the SBK same old same old. IMO

I haven't been racing for 30 years... (or ever, myself) but I have watched a lot of races. That 200 was boring. I turned it off halfway through.

A motorcycle race should not be influenced by who has the best organized pit crew, or who has the best luck when the safety car come out on the yellow... that's just my .02 tho.

[kneedragger88]

I haven't been racing for 30 years... (or ever, myself) but I have watched a lot of races. That 200 was boring. I turned it off halfway through.

A motorcycle race should not be influenced by who has the best organized pit crew, or who has the best luck when the safety car come out on the yellow... that's just my .02 tho.

Funny thats what influences EVERY endurance race. Remember when Mladin won it when they two stops to everyone elses three?
The 200 is an endurance race not a sprint, keep that in mind. With 37 bikes within 30 seconds after 2:45 thats freakin amazing I dont know what else you can ask for.
But different strokes for different folks I guess. Being a huge endurance race fan this was right up my alley.

[havin_fun]

Funny thats what influences EVERY endurance race. Remember when Mladin won it when they two stops to everyone elses three?
The 200 is an endurance race not a sprint, keep that in mind. With 37 bikes within 30 seconds after 2:45 thats freakin amazing I dont know what else you can ask for.
But different strokes for different folks I guess. Being a huge endurance race fan this was right up my alley.

Mladin's pit crew/stop strategy is far different from the DMG/NASCAR "any excuse to bring out the pace (safety) car to bunch up the field" scenario. You can bet if the racers had any problem with the the missing lights at the chicane, they would have been frantically waving and lap times would have gone up a second or so.

Hell, I can remember when men were men and bike racing continued with the emergency vehicles ON TRACK. Then a few racers rode full speed into the back of ambulances... OK, so that wasn't a good plan.

As for Daytona 200 '09, I'm sure if you add up the timing differentials before the the pace (safety) car stints, there was actually a lot more than 30 seconds covering 37 racers. Why not just stop the race every 50 miles and let the poor starters, those with mechanical mishaps, crashers and backmarkers catch up? It's the SAME THING. If a Daytona 200 is only going to be decided at the wire a couple times a decade, so be it. If most Daytona 200's only have 4 riders on the lead lap at the checkers, so be it. THAT'S RACING. Let's not confuse racing with some corporate notion of entertainment.

What's next, the fans voting some racer/team off the grid, or the track mid-race?

[Seoul Man]

AMA is fooked. And to think, that was the only AMA race that will be shown anywhere close to live (30 min delay) all season. The rest you'll have to wait 2 weeks after the race to watch. Saturdays at 11pm? Who's gonna watch a race that they know the outcome of, let alone on a Saturday night?

[havin_fun]

AMA is fooked. And to think, that was the only AMA race that will be shown anywhere close to live (30 min delay) all season. The rest you'll have to wait 2 weeks after the race to watch. Saturdays at 11pm? Who's gonna watch a race that they know the outcome of, let alone on a Saturday night?

Notice who fielded all the post-race questions...

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2009/Mar/sp2/090307b.htm

[kneedragger88]

Fair enough I guess I was the only one who likeld the race. I had a dozen people over to watch it at my place and we all said pretty much the same thing. Funny how we can all watch a race and have such different feelings about it.
I do agree that calling the car out for no reason is not a great plan but in the big picture I liked the race. Mostly from the big field and mix of machines.
The TV coberage is another matter and is Speed's doing I agree it blows.

[chinto]

we had company over too, but not to watch the race. I did have it on and managed was able to watch most of it with only a few conversational interruptions. I thought it was good too. That field was huge, and as you said, nice to see a good mix of bikes.

[franz131]

Glass half full?
Glass half empty?

Some of us embrace change, others resist it.

What I don't get is people who think that AMA racing is ruined because of 1 sketchy race, like that's the first time ever. Wait until we have a race with 6 brands fighting for the win, it'll all start to make sense then.

Not the best 200 ever, but racing at night is a major step into the big pond.

I feel for Hayes, he had the thing tied up tight until..........

[havin_fun]

Glass half full?
Glass half empty?

Some of us embrace change, others resist it.

What I don't get is people who think that AMA racing is ruined because of 1 sketchy race, like that's the first time ever. Wait until we have a race with 6 brands fighting for the win, it'll all start to make sense then.

Not the best 200 ever, but racing at night is a major step into the big pond.

I feel for Hayes, he had the thing tied up tight until..........

Change for change's sake is usually a mistake. I would agree some DMG ideas might help a struggling series start growing again. However...

The new "what's eligible" and "what's the premier class" rule changes had little to do with how "sketchy" the 200 was. Trying to fit motorcycle racing into the NASCAR model, complete with artificially induced "close finishes", is sure to hurt AMA/DMG's product and market viability. Designing the rules to try to eliminate major advantages is sure to result in closer racing... wonderful. But the pace car crap is... well... crap. Is this racing or just a fast parade with trophies? I know WWF makes a ton of money for just about everyone involved, but does anyone on the planet actually think it is real competition? And from what I've seen, NASCAR isn't too big a step up from WWF.

As for racing under the lights being an "improvement"... after reading the problems both AMA and MotoGP riders are having with the tracks getting greasy as twilight/night falls (from the dew, no doubt), not sure it is a good thing for bikes. Might be OK with NASCAR's rules that intentionally keep the cars "looser" than they need to be, and which have roll cages when the walls jump out and bite someone. But intentionally scheduling bike races in situations where more inconsistent grip than usual is almost a certainty is a major issue.

And since AMA/DMG has stated they'll run rain or shine (unlike NASCAR) would the 200 be run at night in the rain? Doubt I'd watch if they do... one would hope the riders would all boycott it if DMG tried it.

[minifig-phil]

thought this years 200 was missing something. Oh yeah good bikes!!

Funny thing is as I was watching it I thought to myself if this was NASCRAP they would throw a competition yellow right about now and sure enough it happened!! I was LMAO! Way to go DMG

Leave the Night racing to the red necks. I thing Bostrom made a few good points about why Night racing on a bike isn't such a good idea Plus where are all the tree huggers can you imagine what a complete waste of electricity it is to run all those lights and for what?? What did it add to the race? NOTHING!!

Don't even get me started on how great of an idea a pace car is in bike racing!!

Oh yeah and Duhamel's bike was a real piece of crap He could barely draft backmarkers what an embarrassment to you Pascal!!



Franz were not resisting change were resisting stupidity!

[franz131]

Just a reminder: Only Daytona will be run at night and have a pace car (I hope).

Look, I was really iffy on the flying start and the pace car, especially that last one where Bostrom had to cruise behind the safety car while everyone else got a flying lap. As you know well, Phil, racing is less about who goes fastest as who deals with the curve-balls best. So it was interesting to see:
Buell going fast but losing the bodywork
Hayes getting robbed then over-doing it
Cardenas looking dangerous and riding like it too
Disalvo rising from the ashes to finish on the box
Aprillia having the fastest lap of the race

Perhaps we can wait 2 weeks to see what the racing looks like in the day with no cars around. Whadaya say?

[franz131]

Oh yeah and Duhamel's bike was a real piece of crap He could barely draft backmarkers what an embarrassment to you Pascal!!

That was hard to watch, he shouldn't have to work that hard for nothing.

[Seoul Man]

To me the most disappointing thing is that there may just be some good racing going on this year in AMA, but we have to wait 2 weeks after the race to watch it. I'm not going to pass judgement on the whole season when they've only run 1 race. From the sounds of it, the superbike race was pretty good, but we already know who won it, which definitely takes most of the excitement away. I don't get Speed anyways, so I guess I shouldn't be too upset about it. If I read that it was a good race, I might download it from RU 2 weeks later after it airs.

Did you guys see Pascal yelling at someone during one of the pitstops? He was ****** and yelled "YOU F***KED UP!" on air lol. Too bad about Miguel. Drunk Freddie Spencer was humorous.

[minifig-phil]

As you know well, Phil, racing is less about who goes fastest as who deals with the curve-balls best.

Silly me what was I thinking???
No wonder I never made it as a racer!

Someone should tell this to the people who run WSBK (and every other series on the planet) because there the fastest guy wins!

You are so NASCRAPized Fronz do you even read some of the posts you post??

[franz131]

Silly me what was I thinking???
No wonder I never made it as a racer!

Someone should tell this to the people who run WSBK (and every other series on the planet) because there the fastest guy wins!

You are so NASCRAPized Fronz do you even read some of the posts you post??

Maybe you're right Phil......Oh wait!, didn't the fastest guy get pumped off the track twice last week in WSBK?????

They make you run the whole race because sh*t happens, quite often the fastest guy doesn't win, you know this very well.

Phil, if I'm wrong about DMG, I'll gladly own up. But if you're wrong, I'll make an a** of myself telling you about it. (I hope I'm right)

[C L O N E]

From a spectators viewpoint, what's the big deal about racing Daytona at night? It was lit up like an overcast day so on TV you could barely tell it was dark out there. From a riders perspective I'm sure it does add some different elements to it for them to deal with. If they really wanted it to be racing at night they should do it like the real endurance races - bikes that have to have headlights and minimal track lighting - that makes the "night" a factor.....I know, I know - it's not about the racing, and that would make for lousy TV....

And the pace car has been a factor in the outcome many times before - that's not a new thing. Last year (or the year before?) Eric Bostrom got misplaced when the pace car came out and was effectively taken out of contention.....or how about many years ago when Scott Russell low sided at the begining of the race and was able to catch back up, thanks to a pace car, to win the race (not saying he wasn't the fastest guy out there, but the pace car brought him back into contention).

Mladins comments about Spies are his way to give himself a backhanded compliment - reminding everyone that he is just as fast as Spies and look where he could be. Too bad - he cherry picked in the AMA for the money and now he is bitter about it because he could have (and should have) been on the WSBK circuit years ago.

Thankfully we have WSBK to watch.

[kneedragger88]

Maybe you're right Phil......Oh wait!, didn't the fastest guy get pumped off the track twice last week in WSBK?????

They make you run the whole race because sh*t happens, quite often the fastest guy doesn't win, you know this very well.

Phil, if I'm wrong about DMG, I'll gladly own up. But if you're wrong, I'll make an a** of myself telling you about it. (I hope I'm right)

I am with you Franz.
The AMA would be pretty freakin pathetic right now if they had stayed with the same old same old. 10 bikes running arount 20 minutes behind Mladin. People hate change. I was reading some old press when the bikes came over from the beach. There was a ground roots uprising that it ruins the race and what were they thinking.
Kinda sounds the same as this. I say give em a chance. I enjoyed the race. Perfect no but entertaining and unpredicatable.

[minifig-phil]

Phil, if I'm wrong about DMG, I'll gladly own up. But if you're wrong, I'll make an a** of myself telling you about it. (I hope I'm right)

You have my permision to do so Because I don't have a problem admitting when I'm wrong either.