rant ... for gm to survive...

[zrx1200]

Al I can say is if this economy goes south as far as some are predicating the least of our problems will be the car makers!

[Andrew978]

Ya, my link was a combination IIHS and NTHSA. And most of the vehicles you mentioned were SUVs. It's not hard to make an SUV strong, just add more steel.

But ya, they're not totally horrible. But no mid-sized sedan in the top 10? Come on, guys...

the Malibu rates 5 outta 5 for the NTHSA and good (best there is) for IIHS

http://autos.aol.com/cars-Chevrolet-...safety-ratings

[Fingolfin]

the Malibu rates 5 outta 5 for the NTHSA and good (best there is) for IIHS

http://autos.aol.com/cars-Chevrolet-...safety-ratings

the new malibu is sadly a fantastic car. If it was made by honda or toyota it would be all the rave, but its made by GM and a lot of customers will avoid it because its a product of GM.

[Angus Argyle]

the new malibu is sadly a fantastic car. If it was made by honda or toyota it would be all the rave, but its made by GM and a lot of customers will avoid it because its a product of GM.

Yup. And because of all the bad publicity and public funding and chances of going under, even more people will avoid the Big 3 products. At least lets hope this is the case.

[Fingolfin]

yep.. let darwinism play its course

[01cbr]

Yup. And because of all the bad publicity and public funding and chances of going under, even more people will avoid the Big 3 products. At least lets hope this is the case.

Lets hope?

You are absolutely clueless to the number of jobs that revolve around the big three.

Pure ignorance is your only excuse.

[mma01]

Yup. And because of all the bad publicity and public funding and chances of going under, even more people will avoid the Big 3 products. At least lets hope this is the case.

A friend of mine is an exec at Toyota, and even he doesnt want them to go under. The parts suppliers that service the detroit 3 are also tightly connected to Toyota (and Honda, etc) - there would be serious production disruptions at Toyota if gm/ford/chrysler were to go under.

Furthermore, sales throughout the industry would plummet due to the staggering number of jobs at both the manufacturer and supplier level.

[crankcall]

I studied economics briefly and this i know, the collapse of GM will send a ripple so far down the pond its barely possible to calculate. This would have financial repercussions to echo the wall street mess plus the added bonus of several hundred thousand folks employed as subcontract manufacturers , suppliers of equipment, IT, glass....it would go on for months as they defaulted mortgages, loans and credit lines first as businesses, then personally.

I cant say i favor a bailout, but the other option scares me more. I would like to see accountability from the idiots that drove this bus up to the edge of the cliff.

Maybe this will spell the death of the unions.....

[jforzag]

just finished the paper work, so they can take my canyon and i can get a new car, on thursday, surprisingly they actually have decent deals on their cars. so we ordered a g5, they gave us a decent price but the best part was they also included 5 years of maintenence at no extra charge.

for them to survive they have to restructure and cut jobs and atleast they are doing that now but it should have been done years ago, instead of buying out the competition they should have crushed them lol oh well

[Fingolfin]

they also included 5 years of maintenence at no extra charge.

salesguy 1 to salesguy2 : (while giving a highfive) "Jokes on that guy, we're not even going to around in 5 years"

nice car
were you able to get it well below sticker?
it sucks that traction isn't standard

[jforzag]

salesguy 1 to salesguy2 : (while giving a highfive) "Jokes on that guy, we're not even going to around in 5 years"

nice car
were you able to get it well below sticker?
it sucks that traction isn't standard

lmfao about the highfive,
yup 3000 below msrp + 1000 gm loyalty cause my lease was expiring
the only thing that could have been better were the interest rates but seeing as the car should be paid off withing the next 24 months it's not really a big deal

[Angus Argyle]

Lets hope?

You are absolutely clueless to the number of jobs that revolve around the big three.

Pure ignorance is your only excuse.

One of my best friends was an engineer at an automotive parts plant - Director of Engineering to be exact. His company went under 8 months ago or so. Who saved his job?

We are simply delaying the innevitable while doling out cash.

I agree, the ripple effect through all the countless companies that support the big 3 will be very large. If that's the price we have to pay, so be it. When the car industry took over from the horse and buggy industry, who supported them. No one. They had to go under or re-tool to make something the people wanted. Comanies like Magna could do the same thing if they were forward thinking enough.

[Andrew978]

We are simply delaying the innevitable while doling out cash.

what's wrong with delaying it enough such that we can diversify Ontario's economy such that a failure wouldn't cause a meltdown to our economy and massive joblesses?

[Angus Argyle]

what's wrong with delaying it enough such that we can diversify Ontario's economy such that a failure wouldn't cause a meltdown to our economy and massive joblesses?

More and more debt. Hell, I don't want people out of work, I just can't stand public money being used to save companies. This is the perfect time to let them die and start creating new industries and ecomonies. Smarter people than I will have to think of them though...

If the only solution is delaying it, aren't we just pouring good money into bad?

The company I work for has created many smaller companies and when they didn't work out, the stopped it as quickly as possible even though they have spent billions on these. The biggest mistake companies can make is to try to continue operations of something that is not working - Organizational Behaviour 101.

[Andrew978]

potato, potato (works better when actually sayin it I guess haha)

debt through increased spending or debt through decreased revenue is still debt. Out of work people don't pay nearly as much income tax or spend much reducing sales tax revenue)

as for good moeny on bad, a)the peopel employed by teh companies arne't bad, and if we can help them (to a point) then its good money for good and b)as I've stated before, I don't think GM is "bad" as it has shown it can turn an operating profit recently and their restructuring plan before this hit was going to make then into a viable entity anyway IMO.

[Trip_Krowns]

My problem is that GM/Ford/Chrysler seem to think it's about selling a car, rather than making one that sells itself. They're about lobbying for terrible gas mileage, rather than working on fixing the problem. Same thing happened 30 years ago, when they were asked to start meeting emissions. Honda created the CVCC engine and could meet new standards without a catalytic convertor, and the Ford/GM had said it would be impossible. But I digress.

+1 for your point....

When I selected a car, I wanted something that could be bossed around, something that I could sit at 6500 rpm all day and not feel like every bolt in the engine was going to fall apart. I chose a Honda.

-1 cause you bought a Honda.

[Angus Argyle]

Let's bail out the CBC now.

I don't watch that channel at all, so why should I have to pay. If they can't function as a business on it's own, they shouldn't broadcast. Although, they already get government money, don't they?

CBC Sucks ***

[Car2Slo]

it sucks that traction isn't standard

Yeah, what's up with that?

My $12k Sunfire came with traction control but the $25k Montana did not?!

[01cbr]

One of my best friends was an engineer at an automotive parts plant - Director of Engineering to be exact. His company went under 8 months ago or so. Who saved his job?

We are simply delaying the innevitable while doling out cash.

I agree, the ripple effect through all the countless companies that support the big 3 will be very large. If that's the price we have to pay, so be it. When the car industry took over from the horse and buggy industry, who supported them. No one. They had to go under or re-tool to make something the people wanted. Comanies like Magna could do the same thing if they were forward thinking enough.

This bailout is saving more people like him than you realize.

Which other industries are going to support all these companies.......all these workers?

I dont think you realize that more of your tax dollars will be spent if these companies completely stop production. What will the unemployment rate rise to?? 25-30%?

It isnt as simple as retooling to make something else when you lose 90% of your production.

[Angus Argyle]

This bailout is saving more people like him than you realize.

Which other industries are going to support all these companies.......all these workers?

I dont think you realize that more of your tax dollars will be spent if these companies completely stop production. What will the unemployment rate rise to?? 25-30%?

It isnt as simple as retooling to make something else when you lose 90% of your production.

During the depression the unemployment rate was 25%. Hopefully it won't get to that point. However, maybe we should just forget about any free market activity and move to a complete socialist society. Every paycheque to every person can come directly from the government and they can dictate which job each person has.

It takes a true crisis to make big changes. This is that chance. Pouring money into this situation is wrong imo..

I know, I know, over the top. But hell, I have some free time at work right now.