The state of TMP

[dvu3]

Quite honestly, I have done my fair share of trackdays in the past 2 years, and to me I dont consider this track to be any different then Shannonville, both are great tracks that is full of tight sections with no elevation changes and quite bumpy in some spots , yet for some reason people are always putting down TMP. If you can race at Shannonville, you can race at TMP.

In my opinion the 2 best trackday organizers out there is Golo and Guys with Bikes.

[CBRJOHN]

I for one want to say Kudos to Ken for all of his efforts to date to make the SOAR Series a reality and bring accessible , reasonable cost racing to Ontario

After talking to Ken, Jenn and Vanessa at the bike shows I have no doubt that it will be a great year.
After talking to Vanessa, My Wife is going to be Marshaling and possibly my teenage daughter since the Kids are going to be dragged to the track anyways.

With John Bickle in charge of Safety, you know things will be done right. Will all be to MotoGP Standards, Not Likey due to the cost of such track improvements but with more utilization to the track comes more revenue to allow future improvements.

Hopefully the Zoomius system will be in place so racers don't have to incur the expense of a $400+ transponder that will likely be obsolete very soon.

Will everything be perfect,, No.. But considering the attitudes of everyone in charge I know any valid concerns will be addressed.

The idea of a rental bike program is very intriguing if that can be worked out. The program in California run by Racebikerentals.com with 250R Ninjas and their Ninja Cup series looks like a terrific one bike series. And having bikes available for lapping days will encourage a lot of people to try the track that would likely never have otherwise.

Will the track surface be flawless,, No, This is Canada after all with the freeze and thaw cycles that play havoc with any paved surface but learning the track and having your suspension set up to accommodate the irregularities of the surface are all part of riding and racing.

[Yamaha_Gurl]

The idea of a rental bike program is very intriguing if that can be worked out. The program in California run by Racebikerentals.com with 250R Ninjas and their Ninja Cup series looks like a terrific one bike series. And having bikes available for lapping days will encourage a lot of people to try the track that would likely never have otherwise.

You can rent a bike from Turn2 which is just about 30 min away in Stoney Creek! (I think)

[Grimmy]

With John Bickle in charge of Safety, you know things will be done right. Will all be to MotoGP Standards, Not Likey due to the cost of such track improvements but with more utilization to the track comes more revenue to allow future improvements.

Whoa. John's good. Real good. But when someone has ZERO dollars to spend, how do you make improvements with that? How do you "address" safety when no one cares? TMP's safety track record is nil. John is the safety guy - but without a budget for him to use to make changes, I don't see how it could work. TMP is great at listening, and fluffing over problems, but horrible and making physical changes and spending a few dollars.

[chinto]

Whoa. John's good. Real good. But when someone has ZERO dollars to spend, how do you make improvements with that? How do you "address" safety when no one cares? TMP's safety track record is nil. John is the safety guy - but without a budget for him to use to make changes, I don't see how it could work. TMP is great at listening, and fluffing over problems, but horrible and making physical changes and spending a few dollars.

Hey Grimmy, curious to know how you got invited to participate in all of the discussions pertaining to track safety and racing at TMP. I mean, if you know the safety budget, and you know that no one cares, I figure you must have been involved in the entire process right? You sure do have a lot to say about it.

Safety concerns have been heard and are being adressed. Do you think John would have his name anywhere near it, if it were a disaster waiting to happen. Seriously dude, it's racing, if you want something with no risk, take up knitting....oh wait, you might poke your eye out.

[havin_fun]

TMP is going to have such a serious facelift in 09 that people will have to give it its rightful place in Ontario's track community. There have been serious mistakes made in the past and may have a few in the future but the people involved ar not the same people and EVERYONE is working towards making the changes necessary to bring back the motorcycle community confidence.

It is good to see the entire track industry in Ontario upgrading at long last, especially in making them safer for bikes. Those new to the track scene in Ontario would not believe the primitive facilities and conditions that existed at all the tracks. Mosport, Shannoville Nelson and the Cayuga Drag track (now TMP) were basically built in the '60's/70's and the money for proper public facilities, improved racing infrastructure and bike safety just never materialized.

When I first went to Mosport and Shannonville in the early '80's the public washroom facilities were, to put it kindly, really gross. This remained the case until Panoz bought Mosport, and the public facilities improvements started. But as long as no track did anything, none felt compelled to fix things up. Why track managements in the 80's and 90's couldn't comprehend that the general public would not tolerate such inadequate toilet facilities year after year was a mystery to me. Sure, the racers will put up with anything, but race fans? And the wives of racers and race fans? Think again.

The only other caution I would offer to the various tracks/organizers/sanctioning bodies is the trend back to stand-alone series. We've seen this before, back when RACE, then CDN Superbike, formed in reaction to the CMA/FIM structure of the day. The current RACE owners now cooperate with former rival management in CDN Superbike. Ironically, one of the original RACE organizers and current CDN Superbike principles also now works in a key position state-side for AMA/FIM sanctioned DMG. VRRA has changed umbrella orgs as insurance availablity and other situational requirements dictated.

It would be difficult to figure out how this constantly shifting field of allegiances between tracks, various organizers and sanctioning bodies has harmed or helped racers and track day riders. Given that progress was so painfully slow, I'd say it surely didn't help, especially when each track was left to it's own devices to battle local opposition.

The one good glimmer of hope in all this is the relatively recent attempt to avoid significant schedule conflicts, at least for races and other major bike-related events. As recently as two years ago, VRRA and RACE would have to schedule bike race dates the same August weekend, with trackdays at TMP and Mosport Dev going on as well. How many ways can you split not enough participants/spectators?

Now to get the rest of the alphabet-soup that constitutes the Canadian motorcycle scene sorted... CMA, MCC-MMIC, ORRA, RACE, CDN-SB, SOAR, VRRA, CVMG, RFS...

[kneedragger88]

Whoa. John's good. Real good. But when someone has ZERO dollars to spend, how do you make improvements with that? How do you "address" safety when no one cares? TMP's safety track record is nil. John is the safety guy - but without a budget for him to use to make changes, I don't see how it could work. TMP is great at listening, and fluffing over problems, but horrible and making physical changes and spending a few dollars.

Good old Scott. I have never met someone as negative as you in my entire life. Did TMP steal your Christmas presents. Did Uli pick on you as a child? Good god man.

#1 You have no idea what our budget is?
#2 You have no idea what is planned?
#3 You have an opinion of whats required but you know about opinions they are like ********** and everyone has one.
#4 You have seen nothing of what we have done nor what is planned yet you know it all and that John and I are doomed to fail.

Amazing how a guy with your one year experience knows more than all of us put together. I could plop a European Moto-GP track here and charge $4.95 per class and you would still find something to b1tch about. Tell me something Scott what have you done lately to improve motorcycle racing in Canada? I guess some of us are doers and some are complainers.

[kneedragger88]

You can rent a bike from Turn2 which is just about 30 min away in Stoney Creek! (I think)

You sure can other than George is moving the fleet to Calabogie for 09 he rented space there and as far as I know is only running bogie next year.

[havin_fun]

You sure can other than George is moving the fleet to Calabogie for 09 he rented space there and as far as I know is only running bogie next year.

The ARC school is only at 'Bogie, but the Turn 2 web site says about rental bikes...

"We regularly supply bikes to most Pro 6 Cycle Inc. trackdays at Calabogie Motorsports Park, and other tracks only under special arrangements."

http://www.turn2.ca/rent_prc_pol.htm

Talk to George to see how "special" you are...

[DaveP]

You sure can other than George is moving the fleet to Calabogie for 09 he rented space there and as far as I know is only running bogie next year.

Ken are you planning on retiring from your full time job sometime soon? Cause man you've got allot of stuff on the go, where do you find time to sleep? You sound like a 21 year old, so full of energy, hope i'm like that.

[kneedragger88]

Ken are you planning on retiring from your full time job sometime soon? Cause man you've got allot of stuff on the go, where do you find time to sleep? You sound like a 21 year old, so full of energy, hope i'm like that.

I wish. They just signed another 6 year deal. AAARRRGGHHH I am waiting for my cheque and I am gone.

[Grimmy]

Hey Grimmy, curious to know how you got invited to participate in all of the discussions pertaining to track safety and racing at TMP. I mean, if you know the safety budget, and you know that no one cares, I figure you must have been involved in the entire process right? You sure do have a lot to say about it.

Safety concerns have been heard and are being adressed. Do you think John would have his name anywhere near it, if it were a disaster waiting to happen. Seriously dude, it's racing, if you want something with no risk, take up knitting....oh wait, you might poke your eye out.

HAHAHA You are Funny!

Go read all the posts. See the responses. Come back and post after.

[Grimmy]

Good old Scott. I have never met someone as negative as you in my entire life. Did TMP steal your Christmas presents. Did Uli pick on you as a child? Good god man.

#1 You have no idea what our budget is?
#2 You have no idea what is planned?
#3 You have an opinion of whats required but you know about opinions they are like ********** and everyone has one.
#4 You have seen nothing of what we have done nor what is planned yet you know it all and that John and I are doomed to fail.

Amazing how a guy with your one year experience knows more than all of us put together. I could plop a European Moto-GP track here and charge $4.95 per class and you would still find something to b1tch about. Tell me something Scott what have you done lately to improve motorcycle racing in Canada? I guess some of us are doers and some are complainers.

Soars budget is TMP's? Likely not.
Nothing has been planned that has been released. All safety improvements that require modification of the track or spending of funds has been side stepped or shut down.
Its good to have an opinion. Otherwise everyone would be a robot. No fun in that.
I hope John has something up his sleeve, because Soar, nor TMP has addressed in any way any of the concerns I have raised, or others. Addressed means having DONE something, other than post on here how my thoughts are not relevant. Like you just did.

I'm sorry if I am negative. I used to be all bubbly and nice, but people walk all over you when you are like that. People like you. Now I am a prick. I'll be a pain in someones *** until they do what they are supposed to do. TMP needs to fix that damn track and its layout. Nuff said.

[Dan Dubeau]

Nuff said.

finally. phew, I thought you'd never stop.

[kneedragger88]

Soars budget is TMP's? Likely not.
Nothing has been planned that has been released. All safety improvements that require modification of the track or spending of funds has been side stepped or shut down.
Its good to have an opinion. Otherwise everyone would be a robot. No fun in that.
I hope John has something up his sleeve, because Soar, nor TMP has addressed in any way any of the concerns I have raised, or others. Addressed means having DONE something, other than post on here how my thoughts are not relevant. Like you just did.

I'm sorry if I am negative. I used to be all bubbly and nice, but people walk all over you when you are like that. People like you. Now I am a prick. I'll be a pain in someones *** until they do what they are supposed to do. TMP needs to fix that damn track and its layout. Nuff said.

Grimmy the savoir of Canadian roadracing. God bless you Grimmy what did we all do without you for all these years?

[Grimmy]

I'm sorry to disappoint! I'll be a good conformist.

TMP is safe. It's the safest track in Ontario, bar none. When choosing tracks, TMP should be your first choice. The track surface is so smooth, its like it was paved yesterday and the grip is outstanding and consistent throughout the circuit. There is plenty of run off at all turns, and it is as smooth as a football field.

[havin_fun]

Having been "around" Ontario motorcycling and track activities of various types for about 30 years, I'm going to sit squarely on the fence here.

Is the Ontario track situation better now than at any time in the past? Yes. Is everything perfect ? No.

While there is reason to think things will continue to improve, the proof is in the doing. Panoz and Calabogie really raised the bar in certain aspects each, but financial realities will dictate just how much will be done.

If you believe a track is too dangerous, don't ride there. Lots of racers/riders did that for Mosport until after the Panoz changes. There's a reason the only bike GP ever held there was in '67 when HP was low and all bike racers had REALLY big ones. At least Mosport has moved forward, look at Watkin's Glen for a track totally stuck in the Armco-lined 60's.

It's gonna take a lot of paid-for trackday/race entry seats for TMP to even consider repaving corner 1 or reconfiguring the wall/last corner to accomodate bikes.

And don't hang all the blame on the track ownership. Just think of how much more money there would have been for such things if the locals simply realized they couldn't turn back the clock. Wanna know where Cayuga's track re-config money went? Look at the friggin' huge berms... Lawyers also cost big bucks, and having management chasing after crap like this wastes time. Ditto for Calabogie and further back, Shannonville.

So where were CMA, MCC and MMIC when these track owners were battling the local fuss-budgits?

Cudos to all those who have made things better over the years, even the protesters and agitators. Sometimes ya just gotta rock the boat the get change to happen.

[kneedragger88]

Having been "around" Ontario motorcycling and track activities of various types for about 30 years, I'm going to sit squarely on the fence here.

Is the Ontario track situation better now than at any time in the past? Yes. Is everything perfect ? No.

While there is reason to think things will continue to improve, the proof is in the doing. Panoz and Calabogie really raised the bar in certain aspects each, but financial realities will dictate just how much will be done.

If you believe a track is too dangerous, don't ride there. Lots of racers/riders did that for Mosport until after the Panoz changes. There's a reason the only bike GP ever held there was in '67 when HP was low and all bike racers had REALLY big ones. At least Mosport has moved forward, look at Watkin's Glen for a track totally stuck in the Armco-lined 60's.

It's gonna take a lot of paid-for trackday/race entry seats for TMP to even consider repaving corner 1 or reconfiguring the wall/last corner to accomodate bikes.

And don't hang all the blame on the track ownership. Just think of how much more money there would have been for such things if the locals simply realized they couldn't turn back the clock. Wanna know where Cayuga's track re-config money went? Look at the friggin' huge berms... Lawyers also cost big bucks, and having management chasing after crap like this wastes time. Ditto for Calabogie and further back, Shannonville.

So where were CMA, MCC and MMIC when these track owners were battling the local fuss-budgits?

Cudos to all those who have made things better over the years, even the protesters and agitators. Sometimes ya just gotta rock the boat the get change to happen.

Well said.
I agree things can always improve. As long as car designers keep designing bike tracks we will have this problem. If you want to throw safety dagers it doesnt get much worse than bogie. There are still guys that cant walk from last years race. Great track but not safe at all. Here is me smoking the wall at T10 at Mosport. My point is all tracks have issues. In the Mosport shot notice the airfence? Missed it by a foot......DOH.

[CBRJOHN]

I just posted some old pics here http://www.gtamotorcycle.com/vbforum...ad.php?t=78553Showing the lovely turn 1 dirt jump at Shanny. Made for some spectacular airborne bikes.

Nothings Perfect

[CBRJOHN]

Good old Scott. I have never met someone as negative as you in my entire life.

Amazing how a guy with your one year experience knows more than all of us put together.

WOW, Considering the prior posts about TMP, I was under the assumption there was decades of track safety experience there, Not one year racing and 3 years total riding