The state of TMP

[doozerdave]

Hi guys.

I've been out of the scene for a few years, but I'll be getting a new bike soon and getting back to the track.

Right after I sold my bike in 2006 TMP re-opened. I've looked at some pics from track days in 2008 and from what I can tell it's still the same old TMP. Have they done any resurfacing or track upgrades?

Also, what do you guys think about S.O.A.R. ?

Thanks

-Dave

[chinto]

from what I can tell it's still the same old TMP. Have they done any resurfacing or track upgrades?

Also, what do you guys think about S.O.A.R. ?

Thanks

-Dave

Can't say much about TMP now vs then ,as 08 was my first time running there. As for SOAR??? Can't wait!!!

[K4GSXXXR]

There is hay bails by the wall now no more tires and no surface work is done. Its feels more bumpier then before.

[DaveP]

There is hay bails by the wall now no more tires and no surface work is done. Its feels more bumpier then before.

This track has zero elevation changes, it would definitely make for a pretty boring ride if it was ultra smooth. I last rode it in October and it was fine other than the track entry, i.e. the last corner, it's so bumpy you'd think they did it on purpose to intentionally make us slow down and look before entering the track surface. I did notice one or maybe two fair size pot holes embedded deep into the rumble strips, not really an issue for track days but in tight racing I can see this becoming a safety hazard. Hopefully TMP will simply fill these in with $10 of cement...

As for S.O.A.R, it's gonna be awesome! From the looks of things were gonna have a fair bit of trackdayriders take the leap into racing for the first time. Should make for some exciting racing...

[caboose483]

This track has zero elevation changes, it would definitely make for a pretty boring ride if it was ultra smooth.

ahahah what?!

smoother doesnt make it boring, smoother makes it faster. Jennings is not boring.

[doozerdave]

Hmm... yeah, that's what I figured. Just like Shannonville they put very little money into the track itself. Oh well, at least it's open again an looks to stay that way!

Racing is my plan also. I want to give it a shot. I was doing track days for 3 or 4 years before 2006 and was usually middle to front of the hot-shoe pack. This year I plan to get back into track shape. I'll see how the lap times go and if it seems like I'm making progress I'll try a race or two just to humble me again and give me more motivation to practice

-Dave

[doozerdave]

I have to agree about the bumps, they are kind of fun. I remember in 03/04 pulling power wheelies out of turn 3 and turn 5 over the bumps. I just wish they would smooth out turn 1. It's pretty nasty over the seam from what I recall.

-Dave

[geoff-9]

the seam is still there in turn 1,
tmp is not about a top class racetrack, i think people only go becasue its cheap (relativaly) and somewhat local, i much prefer shannonville as a track but its so far and more expensive. i go to tmp more often as its cheaper and i can go down the day of the trackday, which saves camping.

if tmp charged say $150 a trackday i dont think it would be nearly as popular,

[chinto]

the seam is still there in turn 1,
tmp is not about a top class racetrack, i think people only go becasue its cheap (relativaly) and somewhat local, i much prefer shannonville as a track but its so far and more expensive. i go to tmp more often as its cheaper and i can go down the day of the trackday, which saves camping.

if tmp charged say $150 a trackday i dont think it would be nearly as popular,

I have never ridden at shannonville,but it was my understanding that Shannonville is far more bumpy than TMP.

[K4GSXXXR]

if tmp charged say $150 a trackday i dont think it would be nearly as popular,[/QUOTE]


Even better if you were to pay at the door its $145 they round it off to $160 to do a track like cayuga. I payed once will never do that again.

[geoff-9]

I have never ridden at shannonville,but it was my understanding that Shannonville is far more bumpy than TMP.

thats true, the one at turn 2 on pro, and the one at allens on the nelson track,
im not saying tmp is a bad racetrack, i actually quite like it, it has a high speed element with lots of technical elements,
im just saying the track is not about being perfectly smooth or being like mosport as this is not its intention, its intention is to provide a cheaper track for people that cant justify paying $200 a trackday like at mosport.

[TMPracing]

We have done some restructuring at TMP and worked very hard last year to try to improve things for riders. Track day elements have been improving and now that TMP has it own racing series and we're working closely with the community and more improvements will come.

Just for starters, this year you'll see the addition of a timing system to the track.

[havin_fun]

This takes us back to riders having to accept the risks a particular track presents and adjust accordingly. Ride the track as you find it, not as you wish it was.

All tracks, even the best ones, have motorcycle-specific issues that might have been avoided had bikes been considered during the design phase. But anyone who has been around Ontario motorcycle road racing for a while can tell you there's no big money in the sport, and the fan base is nearly non-existent. No wonder motorcycles aren't highly prominent in the start-up and safety considerations.

So bike issues are usually only recognized after everything is built and there's no money or space left for changes like more runoff or moving walls. Even new and well-financed tracks like Calabogie suffer from this problem. It took Mosport over 30 years to correct some very serious bike safety issues, and even with the $millions poured in by new ownership over the last 10 years, there's more that could be done.

If you think Cayuga or Shannonville are bumpy, try the Mosport Dev track. Every other track seems glass smooth after that... And I've heard that "(whatever) track is a lot bumpier this year" for 30 years... Shannonville and Mosport would have devolved into to dirt tracks if this was as severe each year as some riders claim.

No track operator deliberately makes a track unsafe, but we must recognize there's only so much that can be done within the revenues/budget and car-related responsibilities they have. If the motorcycle and general public make motorcycle activities THE major profit center, it would be reasonable to expect the track operators to spend to eliminate bike safety issues and provide better bike-related infrastructure. But once the initial investment is spent, improvements will only come from increased cash flow.

So sign up for your favorite racing series and trackdays and stop whinging about a few bumps and how much it costs. Tell your friends (and enemies) to show up and pay to watch, promote as many aspects of the sport anyway you can. Motorcycle track activities are a pay-to-play proposition in Ontario... the more that pay, the more can play.

That said, I'm spending all my money to play, spent the last 30 years paying to watch. This is the best it's ever been folks, but there's still room for improvement.

[chinto]

Great post!!

[doozerdave]

We have done some restructuring at TMP and worked very hard last year to try to improve things for riders. Track day elements have been improving and now that TMP has it own racing series and we're working closely with the community and more improvements will come.

Just for starters, this year you'll see the addition of a timing system to the track.

Excellent! Glad to hear it! As stated by others, TMP is a great location for most people with SW Ontario. I'm in Kitchener so it's only about 1h20m to get there.

I quite like the course layout also. I haven't ridden it since 2003 (or early 2004) and I can still close my eyes and ride the whole track (including my high-side in the right after the kink, ouch). Looking forward to getting back there this year for sure.

-Dave

[doozerdave]

If you think Cayuga or Shannonville are bumpy, try the Mosport Dev track. Every other track seems glass smooth after that... And I've heard that "(whatever) track is a lot bumpier this year" for 30 years... Shannonville and Mosport would have devolved into to dirt tracks if this was as severe each year as some riders claim.

I agree 100%. I was only asking at the start of this thread because I haven't been there for 5 years.

Maybe bumps can be viewed the same as rain days, equalizers. haha... When I get my new bike the first upgrade will be an Öhlins or Penske rear shock and some RaceTech or Traxxion fork valving and springs. My old bike had a Penske and RaceTech and it was great.

-Dave

[raginduck]

(including my high-side in the right after the kink, ouch).

-Dave

A right after the kink...? I've always made a left after the kink, except once when I thought I'd try going straight... Not such a good idea!

[doozerdave]

Maybe that's why I high-sided Yeah, kink, short left, then that relatively slow long right... it bit me my first time there.

-Dave

[ROBB JR]

Shannonville is very bumpy! I have raced at both tracks and find that TMP is quite a bit smoother, It ain't no Mosport big track but, it will be fun to race at TMP this year with Soar! Can't Wait!

[kneedragger88]

As one of the first guys to ride the track when it opened and then again this past year I can say it has changed little with regards to surface. T1 is a little rough through the apex but extremely wide and easy to deal with. Other than that I would put it about the same. Keep in mind this track has had little use in 10 years.
The management, especially Vanessa have been awesome with regards to making improvements. I can tell you that I am working towards that as well. There is a ton of changes that are going to be done this year, the track will take on a whole new feeling. We as a group are agressively addressing "the wall" issue and it will be protected as it has never been in the past under the watchful eye of SOAR's track safety guy John Bickle who as any racer can attest has done more for motorcycle track safety than any other in Canada.
Vanessa has already mentioned that we are installing a electronic timing system for 09. We are hoping to work with Zoomius (http://zoomius.com/ti/zoomius/index.html) this is a new technology in timing using RFID tags. The benefits here is that the racer/rider has no investment and TMP will have the option of easily timing track day participants as well as SOAR racers alike. If Zoomius cannot get the appropritate goveenment approvals we will like be using the old benchmark AMB system (http://www.amb-it.com/) This may also be able to be utilized by the track day goer as well but likely limited to the number of rental transponders we have.
We are training a proper marshal service TMPCS (Toronto Motorsports Park Communication Service) This will take place on April 26th and we have commitment from CRCA certified marshals to do the training. The track management has agreed to installing a small clubhouse on the grounds for use by TMPCS.
We are also hiring properly trained announcers for SOAR events. The voice of SOAR will likly be Lindsay Thomson (we are finalizing schedules and rates) he is the ex-announcer of Shannonville and ex-RACE referee. He currently is under contract with VRRA. He will be backed up at some events by Frank Wood, Frank is a long time professional announcer/writer currently working with the AMA and writing for Inside Motorcycles. Pat Gonzales has been instrumental in instigating the install of a proper PA system for the road track and has indicated he would like to work with SOAR on a casual basis. Pat is currently the voice of Daytona along with his job at Q107fm.
The track has also agreed to errect some sort of permanent tower that the TMPCS control, timing and scoring, and announcing can be housed. We are also looking at re-erecting the starter tower as well.
I am in negotiations with an OEM at the momment to establish a small rental fleet of brand new entry level bikes that will me race prepped. These will be used by SOAR in our school, they will also be available for rent for our On-Track trackday segment as well as to actually race in SOAR events by qualified SOAR licensed racers. These could also be made available for rent to TMP for their track day customers.
TMP has moved a key person to a property adjacent to the track. This will make it much easier to liason between TMP head office and track personel to avoid previous mix-ups in communication.
TMP has hired the excellent trackday staff (formally known as Guys With Bikes) to run their trackdays. Donald,Dave and the boys do an excellent job organizing and running the trackdays as proven in the past. Them along with Jenn from TMP will assure that the track day goer is treated right and has a great experience.
Sorry about the long post but I am so excited about TMP this year and so proud of my relationship both personal and as head of SOAR with TMP management. I have been in this industry on every level since the mid-eighties and have never seen a track owner/manager so responsive to working towards change.
TMP is going to have such a serious facelift in 09 that people will have to give it its rightful place in Ontario's track community. There have been serious mistakes made in the past and may have a few in the future but the people involved ar not the same people and EVERYONE is working towards making the changes nessassarry to bring back the motorcycle community confidence.
I can only speak for myself but myself and the SOAR staff are committed to helping TMP in any way needed.