Red Bull Rookie Cup Gone!

**invictus43** · 01-22-2009, 09:39 PM

Originally Posted by reciprocity

A good national 600 program is probably close to 5 times that.

Yeah, but we're talking kids here..up to age 18..amateurs. Multiply that by 15 years and you're looking at $150k to put your kid through Triple A hockey.

**Tonto** · 01-23-2009, 08:39 AM

Originally Posted by invictus43

Yeah, but we're talking kids here..up to age 18..amateurs. Multiply that by 15 years and you're looking at $150k to put your kid through Triple A hockey.

By that logic, and Rec's figures, I'm in for about $400K before my boy is 18.

I hear retirement is over-rated.

**invictus43** · 01-23-2009, 08:54 AM

Originally Posted by Tonto

By that logic, and Rec's figures, I'm in for about $400K before my boy is 18.

I hear retirement is over-rated.

Haha! Well, I dunno..Recpie is talking 600 National level. But kids can't race that until they're, what, 14? 16? So that's a short-term thing. What's he racing from 3 until 14? Mini-bikes? Go-karts? I dunno.. And I don't know what the cost of that is..do you need top-level equipment to race from 3 to 14? Retirement most certainly is over-rated though!

**caboose483** · 01-23-2009, 10:04 AM

Originally Posted by TBK

This is the sad thing about contracts, it's only binding to those who can't afford to get out of it. While Red Bull may suffer some monetary loss in the economic times, it's nothing to a family who a parent gave up a salary in these economic conditions to make his son or daughters dream come true.

While I am not impressed with Red Bull, they sound like they were going to follow through on their obligations if it weren't for the other sponser that pulled out. Would that be KTM? How many major sponsers were there?

It could be, but to me it speaks volumes about Red Bull when they come across a large hurdle in their program and their reaction is to cut and run. KTM was my first thought too, but there are other bike manufacturers out there. I could be wrong, but nowhere have i read anything about Red Bull trying to work out a deal with any other manufacturer.

Understandably, budget is key. I suspect maintaining a fleet of gp bikes through a season is not cheap. There are 4 other big name manufr's out there. All 4 of which have a 250/450 4-stroke dirtbike that could lend itself to the SuperSingle (or whatever its called) class.

All i read in their press release was "It got hard so we quit".

+1 on thinking they should have stuck it out through 09 and then re-evaluated the 2010 season.

**dvu3** · 01-23-2009, 11:02 AM

Originally Posted by Tonto

By that logic, and Rec's figures, I'm in for about $400K before my boy is 18.

I hear retirement is over-rated.

If everything works out, you can actually retire at a very early stage in your life.

**Kit** · 01-23-2009, 11:27 AM

Its apparanent that almost every company has underestimated the impact and downturn the economy would have, hence cutting programs they were pretty sure they could run only 4-6 months ago.

feel bad for these kids? what about Nortel employees both current and former that might not have a pension?

IMO Reb Bull has done a good job sponsoring many things it doesnt have too, and i bet the return isnt as high as other investments it could have made, if they have to cancel one year of cup and unfortunately hurt some people, in the interest of preserving the company so it can run this program again in the future and continue to sponsor all kinds of athletes i think its a trade off that isnt so bad

**Metastable** · 01-23-2009, 01:19 PM

^^^^^ See that's what happens when you get accountants involved.

**TBK** · 01-23-2009, 02:55 PM

Originally Posted by caboose483

It could be, but to me it speaks volumes about Red Bull when they come across a large hurdle in their program and their reaction is to cut and run. KTM was my first thought too, but there are other bike manufacturers out there. I could be wrong, but nowhere have i read anything about Red Bull trying to work out a deal with any other manufacturer.

All i read in their press release was "It got hard so we quit".

+1 on thinking they should have stuck it out through 09 and then re-evaluated the 2010 season.

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2009/...23-expdele.htm

Apparently most people are pointing the finger at KTM. Personally I think if Red Bull was willing to meet their commitments, they don't deserve quite as much hate as has been flung their way, even if their name is on the series. Lets face it, they are a drink company, they probably know squat about the depths of racing. Like the article above mentioned, KTM should be the ones coming up with the alternative solutions. Use last years bikes, reduce the number of races. So personally, while I don't drink redbull. You won't see me shopping for a KTM litre bike any time soon. Or a motard either for that matter.

**invictus43** · 01-23-2009, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by Kit

Its apparanent that almost every company has underestimated the impact and downturn the economy would have, hence cutting programs they were pretty sure they could run only 4-6 months ago.

feel bad for these kids? what about Nortel employees both current and former that might not have a pension?

IMO Reb Bull has done a good job sponsoring many things it doesnt have too, and i bet the return isnt as high as other investments it could have made, if they have to cancel one year of cup and unfortunately hurt some people, in the interest of preserving the company so it can run this program again in the future and continue to sponsor all kinds of athletes i think its a trade off that isnt so bad

Yeah..I mean, it sucks they pulled the rug out on some kids but when it's cost-trimming time, you have to analyze what you're doing and start trimming where it makes the most sense and the least pain. You don't want to destroy your workforce's morale..if you have a good team you want to keep it together as much as possible. It's just good business sense. If the team sucks on the other hand..

**RozGarRacing71** · 01-23-2009, 04:51 PM

Well a little first hand info
I felt the Red Bull AMA US Rookies Cup was the opportunity of a lifetime for my son who had just won the National and Regional 600 championships and regional Superbike championship. Many said I was wrong to lead him that direction after winning so many titles. Me being not that well versed in the racing scene moved forward and went through the process of applying and getting accepted then driving to the tryouts (450 in fuel) stayed in Burmingham Alabama for 3 nights (600, bad weekend for hotels as there was a nascar race at Talladega down the road) and ate at there restaurants (300) bought some local products (500) then waited for the result, Kevin Schwantz called Jodi 1 week later and told him we had made it, then started the process for us and many others on the road to decisions, we made ours and stood with it. Did we miss a factory ride with a manufacturer we had contacts with? Yes, well at least we were told we did (not sure I believe that then or now) did we hurt our chances with other manufacturers looking for young talent? I do believe we did. So we waited for the contract to arrive and then agonized over signing it as it was a very one sided contract, paid two different lawyers to go over it and received two similar opinions ( do you have any idea what you are signing here!!!!) was the general consensus, we signed and waited. in the meantime we worked on budgets and looked for cheap flights and figured a way to do this series as inexpensive as possible, we found a way (cheaper than our tire budget for last year) drive to many events, fly to ones we had to, then spent time making a booth for the motorcycle show, setting up the booth, staying and eating in toronto for three days (600) had a great time
promoting Red Bull and Jodi, talked to many people about the series and its benifits, a big thanks goes out to Peter Derry and Bar Hodgson for providing our booth space. Purchased a beautiful practice bike (10k) cuz you need something to practice on, started to get ready to purchase some spares from the states for the 125. Then on the advice from the person who handles most of the logistics booked cheap (ie non refundable) tickets to Laguna for March test and July Moto Gp, 5 days later I got a warning call from someone in the know to expect bad news and start looking for a ride, I was hopfully sceptical, two days later at 2.00 pm received an email from Red Bull regarding cancellation of the series, shocked, gutted, and this was after a warning, my heart was sunk, my son was somewhat devastated to say the least. After talking with them they informed me the motorcycle supplier had pulled the plug on the tuesday and they spent two days trying to find someone else to come on board without luck. The series cost as they see it is around 215k per rider all inclusive, it was to much cost to bear. Understandable. Would I do it again? I never perceived the possible cancellation so it is hard to say, would I have gone this route if they told me there was a 30% chance the series may not run, definetly not, we all know hindsight, would I have brought home a PW50 when Jodi was 3 if I had any idea what it would cost me over the years, probably yes cuz I love motorcycles and is what I did with my girls before him, they had the whole series of Honda Xr's by the time they were 15.
We never had the contract signed back to us, so whether we will be payed for the flights or anything I do not know. I do know there were 23 other families, most of them like me and you, normal or un-normal motorcycle racing people, who obsess with these things, who spend ten of thousands on racing and riding and trying to figure out what is best for their kids. Now what? we move on, life sucks, some die, the strong move forward and try and salvage a career, I wish my kid was 14, i think it would have made it better and easier to move forward and find the career repair. Anyone want to buy a Red Bull cooler?
Gary

**RozGarRacing71** · 01-23-2009, 04:57 PM

Did I forget it was very cool at Barber with Kevin and the boys,also anyone want to buy a beautiful RS125 mint, fresh, never used

**dvu3** · 01-24-2009, 09:11 AM

Originally Posted by RozGarRacing71

Did I forget it was very cool at Barber with Kevin and the boys,also anyone want to buy a beautiful RS125 mint, fresh, never used

"Never used", that has got to sting a bit

havin_fun · 01-25-2009, 12:16 PM

$215k per rider? Since this has become an accounting exercise, one wonders how much of that was to be KTM's share? I can't imagine it would be more than 40 to 50% for a bike, spares and tech staff. Otherwise, WTF was Red Bull and the other sponsors actually contributing? Maybe KTM walked when they figured out this should have been called the KTM Cup?

I'm also guessing the reason Red Bull hasn't pulled the plug on the off-road facility is because they have contracts/mortgages with banks that aren't as easy to walk away from, so they have to suck it up and carry on to try to just cover costs. That sucking sound obviously extended to the kid's roadracing program.

Sure, Red Bull, KTM and the rest of the series sponsors are in business to make money, but this whole financial meltdown started long before the trials were run. Those financiers, managers and accountants that are now so clever at chopping kid's racing programs should have been clever enough to see this coming, and cancel the '09 season before asking kids and their families to invest time, effort and money, as well as forego other opportunities.

Once again, the North American motorcycle roadracing "entertainment" industry/sponsor system shows it's true colours... all but the established top stars pay to race.