Just or Unjust-Isreal invasion of Gaza

[Angus Argyle]

Their general belief is that Israel doesn't even deserve to exist.

Does Isreal deserve to exist??

[Blackenese]

It's precisely because this issue goes back so far, with blame on both sides, that the history must be discounted. If we look at RECENT events Israel, who I find to be no less at fault for past issues, has finally made the appropriate concessions. In response, HAMAS started firing rockets into civilian areas. Hardly the way to lasting peace.

That's exactly the point. If you discount everything that happened 1948 ~ 2007, then of course Israel has a right to invade Gaza.

Zionists went into Palestine, sectioned off land that they claim was given to them by God, threw out the Palestinian/Arab majority, and then insist they have a right to defend their new land by any means necessary.

This conflict isn't about justice. It's about who wins the slug fest. The victor will write the history.

[Blackenese]

Does Israel deserve to exist??

Everyone has a right to something they are willing to fight for.

This is how history judges it.

[RW24L]

I have very little sympathy for Palestine.
The "innocent" people you refer to are the same people that were chanting in the streets after 9/11. The same people that elected Hamas. The same people that had opportunity to leave before the blockade. The same people that deny Israel's right to live. The same people that stand by and watch as Hamas fires rockets into Israel........

Hamas store their weapons in Mosques, Hospitals and Schools.
Use donated Ambulances as troop carriers (With UN markings no less).
Civilian deaths are unavoidable and often facilitated by themselves.
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/opinion...753/story.html

It's really easy to use the words "Innocent" and "Children" together, however this is not Canada we're talking about.
Children there are raised and bred to hate and kill.





Oh, but pictures like these really pull at your heart strings eh?
One thing these people do well is parade in the street conveniently for camera's. *

[Angus Argyle]

Everyone has a right to something they are willing to fight for.

This is how history judges it.

Sorry, but not catching the logic here. Because Isreal is willing to fight for it - they deserve it?

I'm willing to fight Bill Gates for some of his money, do I deserve any of it? Poor example I know, but I think I am just missing something here.

[Vlad]

It's precisely because this issue goes back so far, with blame on both sides, that the history must be discounted. If we look at RECENT events Israel, who I find to be no less at fault for past issues, has finally made the appropriate concessions. In response, HAMAS started firing rockets into civilian areas. Hardly the way to lasting peace.

From what I read those "concessions" for ceasefire were made only on paper and Israel continued to choke and starve the people of Gaza. Hamas is painted with a very wide terrorist brush that seems to justify whatever Israel does. They have violated so many UN resolutions over the years that it's simply embarrassing. Other countries have been invaded and/or bombed into middle ages for much less. Although I hope the new US administration will change that somewhat, I'm not holding my breath.

Not taking sides either. Seen similar crap before, first hand.

[Blackenese]

Sorry, but not catching the logic here. Because Isreal is willing to fight for it - they deserve it?

I'm willing to fight Bill Gates for some of his money, do I deserve any of it? Poor example I know, but I think I am just missing something here.

Sorry, I should elaborate.

I define the "right to exist" as the right over existence, the right over land, and the international acknowledgment of those rights. However, this conflict, as all others in history, are grounded on arbitrary elements that cannot be rationalized.

There is no rationale for who was there first (and therefore, who it belongs to). There is no rationale for who God gave that land to. And there is no rationale for who has moral grounds for owning that land.

No one people has more of a right to live there than any other. There is no entitlement to be had.


Therefore, the land should go to the people who are willing to fight for it. Just like the Romans and the Judeans, the Jews, Persians and Arabs, the Arabs and the Ottomans, the Ottomans and the British, the British and the Palestinians, and now the Palestinians and the Zionists.

[YZFMax]

From what I read those "concessions" for ceasefire were made only on paper and Israel continued to choke and starve the people of Gaza. Hamas is painted with a very wide terrorist brush that seems to justify whatever Israel does. They have violated so many UN resolutions over the years that it's simply embarrassing. Other countries have been invaded and/or bombed into middle ages for much less. Although I hope the new US administration will change that somewhat, I'm not holding my breath.

I have to agree, the treatment of the Palestinians is totally unjust, you get better treatment in our prisons than they do in their own city. I also hope that the new administration listens to the rest of the world and helps negotiate peace in the area. There will never be peace in this world until this issue is resolved. Mt heart goes out to the innocent people in the area (both sides) that want to live a normal life.

[dan_reinfoma]

Where would Israel be if it didnt have the US watching its back? Fact is that Israel does what it wants because the US protects them. If left on its own, Israel would be forced to give back the land they stole. They would be forced to do stop doing many of the iilegal things they are doing now.

[Blackenese]

Where would Israel be if it didnt have the US watching its back? Fact is that Israel does what it wants because the US protects them. If left on its own, Israel would be forced to give back the land they stole. They would be forced to do stop doing many of the iilegal things they are doing now.

This is a moot point.

Geopolitics will always be played by rich/powerful countries using smaller conflicts as pawns. This is the way of the world. There is no changing it.

[Vlad]

Some news not seen or heard in mainstream media tell different stories:

Iran Proposal to U.S. Offered Peace with Israel

People need to drop the remote "control" and search for the information instead of having it shoved down their lazy throats. Not pointing fingers at anyone here, just venting.

[dan_reinfoma]

This is a moot point.

Geopolitics will always be played by rich/powerful countries using smaller conflicts as pawns. This is the way of the world. There is no changing it.

Well said, and I agree with you.

[twinn]

Here are some good links for alternative news:

http://abumuqawama.blogspot.com/ its a counter insurgency blog started by a guy with connections to the US state department. Don't be fooled by the name, its just a alias used by the blogs writer.

http://www.generationaldynamics.com/ click on web log, great blog discussing generational theory and its impact on wars worldwide.

[Angus Argyle]

Oh please! Quit blaming the blockades for their actions. These people have been fighting since the beginning of time.
Their general belief is that Israel doesn't even deserve to exist.

http://www.truthout.org/010609A

"It is important to note that in mid-December, during a visit to Israel, UN Human Rights Investigator Richard Falk called the Israeli blockade of Gaza "a crime against humanity" and a "flagrant and massive violation of international law.""

[Angus Argyle]

"Inside Gaza City, windows are blown out, electricity is cut and drinking water scarce. While phones rang with the recorded threats against Hamas, leaflets dropped from airplanes littered the streets, saying: “Hamas is getting a taste of the power of the Israeli military after more than a week and we have other methods that are still harsher to deal with Hamas. They will prove very painful. For your safety, please evacuate your neighborhood.” "

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/07/wo...t.html?_r=2&hp

[squid pro quo]

RPGs FTW!

i luv pita and huammas.

[RW24L]

Alright, here goes Angus Argyle again with his ridiculous links.
I'll just stand by and wait for you to start telling me that Israel just wants all the Oil in Gaza... and this is one great big conspiracy.

[Blackenese]

I have very little sympathy for Palestine.
The "innocent" people you refer to are the same people that were chanting in the streets after 9/11. The same people that elected Hamas. The same people that had opportunity to leave before the blockade. The same people that deny Israel's right to live. The same people that stand by and watch as Hamas fires rockets into Israel........

Sean Hannity?? is that you??

[Angus Argyle]

Alright, here goes Angus Argyle again with his ridiculous links.
I'll just stand by and wait for you to start telling me that Israel just wants all the Oil in Gaza... and this is one great big conspiracy.

Yup, the NY times is a ridiculous link. Truthout is just a collection of articles from other news sources. I don't even know what you are trying to say here. It is a poor tactic to attack the individual and not the information. It is the first sign you have nothing left to say.

We are all just putting our 2cents in here. You just go ahead and disapprove of one of my posts again. It may take me off the distinguished road...

[Angus Argyle]

Sean Hannity?? is that you??

Funny....