Envy Rides....No thanks

[Resurrection]

dealers dont make that much more at all, granted some dealers do, but at the end of it, 800-1500 seems to be average per bike

I would believe $1000 on old stock, just to get rid of them, and make space for new.

[butters]

Dealers make way more then $1000 on a new bike

I'm curious to know what range you think dealerships are walking away with.
What is your definition of "way more"

[hondacbrf3]

Dealers don't make a lot of money on new bikes but they do make a decent profit selling gear, tires etc.....

[Duster929]

Although there are parts of bambam's comments I agree with, and others that I don't, I think it's besides the point (not trashing him, I know he said as much in the post).

The issue is not whether or not dealerships make money or whether or not customers are cheap. I mean, people want the best price in every industry. In my business we sell multi-hundred thousand dollar equipment, and customers nickel and dime over the craziest things. That's the nature of business.

The issue is, customers should be treated with respect, told the truth, and dealt with fairly, regardless of how much money is being made by the seller. I get treated with respect by the lady who pours me a coffee at Timmie's, and they're not making $700 or $1000 on my coffee.

Yes, customers sometimes have unreasonable expectations. But then we're right back to "the customer is always right". If they have an unrealistic expectation, and someone else is willing to satisfy their expectation, you lose the sale, whether or not the expectation is unrealistic. You can complain about it all you want - you either get in the game and compete on that basis, or get out of the game. Over time maybe the game changes. And I suspect it will in motorcycling, as there are fewer and fewer shops to go to.

You have to treat customers with respect and be honest with them. That's really the issue at hand in this thread.

--- D

[Resurrection]

Although there are parts of bambam's comments I agree with, and others that I don't, I think it's besides the point (not trashing him, I know he said as much in the post).

The issue is not whether or not dealerships make money or whether or not customers are cheap. I mean, people want the best price in every industry. In my business we sell multi-hundred thousand dollar equipment, and customers nickel and dime over the craziest things. That's the nature of business.

The issue is, customers should be treated with respect, told the truth, and dealt with fairly, regardless of how much money is being made by the seller. I get treated with respect by the lady who pours me a coffee at Timmie's, and they're not making $700 or $1000 on my coffee.

Yes, customers sometimes have unreasonable expectations. But then we're right back to "the customer is always right". If they have an unrealistic expectation, and someone else is willing to satisfy their expectation, you lose the sale, whether or not the expectation is unrealistic. You can complain about it all you want - you either get in the game and compete on that basis, or get out of the game. Over time maybe the game changes. And I suspect it will in motorcycling, as there are fewer and fewer shops to go to.

You have to treat customers with respect and be honest with them. That's really the issue at hand in this thread.

--- D

That has to be the best statement I have seen on this forum. Think of ho wlittle they make and how polite they are. I can say I have ever had a bad experience with a Timmies employee. The best part is, these employees really have no stake in the company, where as the owners of bike shops do, and yet still do their best to be rude, or non co-operative with customers. I heard a saying one time. I hope i get it right. "Those that have not , know, no better, and are happy not knowing, those that have, know better and want more, it's called greed".

[JohnnyP636]

I would believe $1000 on old stock, just to get rid of them, and make space for new.

Your assuming this based on what? You obviously have no real facts to back up your assumptions, because Ive recently seen what a dealer makes off a brand new 09 600cc bike.....And its not more then $1000-1500 markup from what they actually pay for it....Unless you pay full MSRP..

[caboose483]

Although there are parts of bambam's comments I agree with, and others that I don't, I think it's besides the point (not trashing him, I know he said as much in the post).

The issue is not whether or not dealerships make money or whether or not customers are cheap. I mean, people want the best price in every industry. In my business we sell multi-hundred thousand dollar equipment, and customers nickel and dime over the craziest things. That's the nature of business.

The issue is, customers should be treated with respect, told the truth, and dealt with fairly, regardless of how much money is being made by the seller. I get treated with respect by the lady who pours me a coffee at Timmie's, and they're not making $700 or $1000 on my coffee.

Yes, customers sometimes have unreasonable expectations. But then we're right back to "the customer is always right". If they have an unrealistic expectation, and someone else is willing to satisfy their expectation, you lose the sale, whether or not the expectation is unrealistic. You can complain about it all you want - you either get in the game and compete on that basis, or get out of the game. Over time maybe the game changes. And I suspect it will in motorcycling, as there are fewer and fewer shops to go to.

You have to treat customers with respect and be honest with them. That's really the issue at hand in this thread.

--- D

While i agree that 99% of customers should be dealt with fairly, there is always that 1% that is a cancer to the business. They're abusive, time consuming and will never turn offer a profit.

I don't get how people in this thread can say that an employee or owner should bend over backwards to try and appease every single customer. Thats insane. The motto of "the customer is always right" comes from a time where store loyalty actually meant something and if you treated someone well or went out of your way to help them you could count on some sort of future business relationship. Nowadays the only thing that matters is the almighty doller, sport bike people especially are unbelievably cheap for the most part. I've had customers come in and spend 20 minutes with me discussing what tires would be most ideal for them and their bike only to have them take my advice and buy the tires somewhere else because they were $20 cheaper. They only way i could keep things like this from happening is to work out a ridiculous booking order with FullBore on Pirelli tires to get better prices. When a customer tells me that he can get something in the states at a price which is below my dealer cost and wants me to price match, how am i supposed to respond to that? Money is lost on the part itself, not to mention the time that goes into making the sale, shipping, receiving, etc. How can you justify losing money on a sale? Its a business, not Unicef.

I had a customer call me and tell me he needed a clutch cable for a '93 FZR600 and he needed it asap as he had no other wheels. Yamaha was back ordered with no ETA on restock. The only supplier with a MotionPro cable in stock was Steen Hansen's out of Calgary. Not a supplier i order from regularly. I told the guy i could get him one but i'd have to charge him an extra $10 to cover my shipping cost on a single-item order. He also did not have a credit card number to give me over the phone for the 50% special order deposit as is customary. On very rare occasions i can exempt customers from that, he promised that he was good for it so i took a chance and ordered his clutch cable. Two days later the cable got there, i knew he was antsy for it so i called him and left a message saying it was in. 8 months later that clutch cable still sat in the parts pickup bin. I spent half an hour digging through catalogs trying to find that clutch cable, we paid the order flat fee and the shipping charge for one item. The guy never came to pick up the part. He promised me he was good for it and bailed on me. Now we have a clutch cable that we'll never sell. What good is that customer to us? Respect is a two way street. Giving your word doesnt mean anything anymore, things like honour and integrity are no longer universal.

Sorry for the rant. But it really bugs me when people suggest a shop should bend over backwards to please absolutely everyone. Also, for what its worth, i made a lot more as a Parts Jockey than an employee at Timmy Ho's because i was really freakin good at my job.

[Duster929]

While i agree that 99% of customers should be dealt with fairly, there is always that 1% that is a cancer to the business. They're abusive, time consuming and will never turn offer a profit.

I don't get how people in this thread can say that an employee or owner should bend over backwards to try and appease every single customer. Thats insane. The motto of "the customer is always right" comes from a time where store loyalty actually meant something and if you treated someone well or went out of your way to help them you could count on some sort of future business relationship. Nowadays the only thing that matters is the almighty doller, sport bike people especially are unbelievably cheap for the most part. I've had customers come in and spend 20 minutes with me discussing what tires would be most ideal for them and their bike only to have them take my advice and buy the tires somewhere else because they were $20 cheaper. They only way i could keep things like this from happening is to work out a ridiculous booking order with FullBore on Pirelli tires to get better prices. When a customer tells me that he can get something in the states at a price which is below my dealer cost and wants me to price match, how am i supposed to respond to that? Money is lost on the part itself, not to mention the time that goes into making the sale, shipping, receiving, etc. How can you justify losing money on a sale? Its a business, not Unicef.

I had a customer call me and tell me he needed a clutch cable for a '93 FZR600 and he needed it asap as he had no other wheels. Yamaha was back ordered with no ETA on restock. The only supplier with a MotionPro cable in stock was Steen Hansen's out of Calgary. Not a supplier i order from regularly. I told the guy i could get him one but i'd have to charge him an extra $10 to cover my shipping cost on a single-item order. He also did not have a credit card number to give me over the phone for the 50% special order deposit as is customary. On very rare occasions i can exempt customers from that, he promised that he was good for it so i took a chance and ordered his clutch cable. Two days later the cable got there, i knew he was antsy for it so i called him and left a message saying it was in. 8 months later that clutch cable still sat in the parts pickup bin. I spent half an hour digging through catalogs trying to find that clutch cable, we paid the order flat fee and the shipping charge for one item. The guy never came to pick up the part. He promised me he was good for it and bailed on me. Now we have a clutch cable that we'll never sell. What good is that customer to us? Respect is a two way street. Giving your word doesnt mean anything anymore, things like honour and integrity are no longer universal.

Sorry for the rant. But it really bugs me when people suggest a shop should bend over backwards to please absolutely everyone. Also, for what its worth, i made a lot more as a Parts Jockey than an employee at Timmy Ho's because i was really freakin good at my job.

It's a good rant, and it makes a lot of points. However, it still doesn't change the reality.

The fact is, in your story, you were polite, respectful, and helpful to your customer. You did a great job and provided great customer service. Yes, the guy didn't pick up his clutch cable, and you lost money on that part. But you don't know if they guy came in to buy 10 other things in that 8 month period, and you know for sure, that he didn't tell all his friends how terrible you were to him and what a bad shop you are. You could see it as a loss, or you could see it as a cost of providing good customer service. The fact is, you generally require a 50% deposit on orders, so my guess is this doesn't happen so often, it is an exception rather than the rule.

Also, I don't think I said you need to bend over backwards to please every customer. I only said that whether you do or not, the customer is still right, because they decide who to give their money to. It's your decision as a company on where you draw the line. I try to please all my customers, but sometimes I can't. I draw the line, and say no. But believe me, I'm the one who loses out, because that customer takes his money elsewhere. If I could find a way to satisfy that customer profitably, I would do it gladly, with a smile, and be happy to have them.

Last thing. Let's not confuse good customer service with an unworkable business model. If your competitors are able to offer better selection, lower cost, and quicker delivery than you are, you are going to lose. If you expect customers to spend more money on a part just because you are nicer or give them advice, you are going to lose. Unless you serve a market where that advice/information is so difficult to get, that it's worth paying for. It's a competitive world out there, and the internet has certainly changed things. If you are relying on an old business model where you think someone should pay you more out of some sense of "loyalty", you're just not going to win the competition. It's business, not a romance. I agree there should be honesty, honour, and integrity in business dealings, but like you said, it's not Unicef. No one owes anybody anything. You have to be offering your customer the most compelling overall package of "value". If you customer doesn't see your offering as valuable as you do, then you need to change what you're offering somehow.

--- D

[hammersfan]

Why would you expect a test drive? i dont know anyone who does that. Especialy in the winter.

I imagine he expected a test ride because they told him he could have one ! And it was not during winter I'm sure! , he said it was a while ago.

[Katatonic]

I imagine he expected a test ride because they told him he could have one ! And it was not during winter I'm sure! , he said it was a while ago.

"He" also said that he was a she.......


Just a thought, but if you're going to rag on someone for not reading......