Reply With QuotePm sent with suggestion, feel free to post up here if you would like other's input.Originally Posted by kneedragger88
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I sure hope so, if you guys want to set something up let me know.
say beside tire services would be great for everyone to be able to get their (oil, filters, brake fluid, suspension fluid, ex..)
Pm sent with suggestion, feel free to post up here if you would like other's input.
Dealer/Vendor
Email SOARacing@gmail.com we have a deal that you cant refuse
Hey you - get back to working on bikesEmail SOARacing@gmail.com we have a deal that you cant refuse
Better to regret something you have done than something you haven't.
Dealer/Vendor
Will have a look at your behemouth in the morningHey you - get back to working on bikes
we're really looking forward to it but how about some better viewing areas, like some kind of stadium seating?
and I thought he was calling men monkeys because he said women and monkeys.
It really would have gone a long way in good intentions if they had made a women's group from the beginning and not said something lame like "adding it later for women and monkeys"
Sounds like a possible addition to my race schedule on top of the RACE series...
I would say the following are suggestions, but they aren't, more like REQUIREMENTS prior to a sprint type race. The trackday/endurance "race" held prior is a different animal over a sprint.
1) ALL run off cleared, leveled and graded properly. Turns 1 and 2exit and 3 are HORRIBLE and are in need of attention. I think there is concrete somewhere out in the exit field of turn 2.
2) Airfence or similar on the wall at the start of the front straight. Haybails will do it for a trackday - what is planned is not a trackday.
3) Proper medical staff. St Johns or similar is first aid, not a paramedic. 2 of them is a good idea for a competition event.
4) CRCA or trained marshalls and more than 3 obviously.
5) A control tower of some degree would be a good idea with PA system.
Otherwise, if off schedule to RACE, and the tire and other suppliers are on board, it could be a real treat.
Off the wall, and obviously one of the things still to be decided, is Which timing system to be used? the AMB while expensive is a system that a number of racers already have transponders for so the track wouldnt have to provide or rent a massive number of them.
Maybe he was refering to the sidecar monkeys...
Dealer/Vendor
I would say the following are suggestions, but they aren't, more like REQUIREMENTS prior to a sprint type race. The trackday/endurance "race" held prior is a different animal over a sprint.
1) ALL run off cleared, leveled and graded properly. Turns 1 and 2exit and 3 are HORRIBLE and are in need of attention. I think there is concrete somewhere out in the exit field of turn 2.
You mean kinda like Shanny T2,T3,T5,T12 ? Mosport T10,T1,T5 ? How about Bogie........? There are issues at every track. It will be looked at but is it really that bad?
2) Airfence or similar on the wall at the start of the front straight. Haybails will do it for a trackday - what is planned is not a trackday.
Spoke to Bic about this a couple weeks ago as well as Alpina both are under the same conclusion that airfence in this application would be all but useless because of the angle and the chances of bike first impact. A soft perm barrier would be best however still being looked into. There is another option but I wont get into it yet. Its very much like the last turn at Shanny only its only at the very exit instead of all the way through the turn. Shanny ran for twenty years before the last turn was ever addressed, Even now its still an issue. In a perfect world it wouldnt be there but it is so we have to make the best of it.
3) Proper medical staff. St Johns or similar is first aid, not a paramedic. 2 of them is a good idea for a competition event.
Actually I was there this past Monday and all EMS ambulance staff are trained and licensed Paramedics and the track ambulance is 100% fitted the same as a road ambulance. The ONLY thing that cant be done is transport. Thats not saying that there is not a plan for road ambulance but thought you would like to know.
4) CRCA or trained marshalls and more than 3 obviously.
Addressed above. You volunteering? How about getting in CRCA ears to get them on board. They and MMS have already been contacted and refuse to come outside Shanny.Progess can't be stopped because of speedbumps. Our plan is to recruit train and base a compliment of marshalls. Keep in mind I am a racer of over twenty years myself I do understand the need for these things.
5) A control tower of some degree would be a good idea with PA system.
Likely in time. Keep in mind that this track has been raped by local council for years with little to no revenue.Did you see the 40 foot mountain of dirt on three sides? That was necver there in the begining I have every confidence and the owners assurance that improvements will come as income allows. This track hosted and ran races here in the 2000-02 and although not as comfy as some of the other circuits it is well doabale as already proven. This is intended as a grass roots club series keep that in mind.
Off the wall, and obviously one of the things still to be decided, is Which timing system to be used? the AMB while expensive is a system that a number of racers already have transponders for so the track wouldnt have to provide or rent a massive number of them
There is new technology we are also looking at RFI timers. They are small adhesive stickons worth 40cents each and pick up off a radio signal. The system is more money but the riders would not need anything. The stick-on would become your tech sticker. Check it out at http://zoomius.com/ti/zoomius/index.html They have been successful at other tracks and have applied for CRTC aproval. This should be easy as they already have stricter FCC aproval.
Lets look at some positives.
NO TRACK CURFEW. Meaning no shortened races.
WE HAVE TRACK FRI-SUN. No night rentals to car clubs. Remember the track walk?
CLOSE TO GTA and NY. Many could sleep at home if they like.
DRAG EVENTS TO SPECTATE OR PARTICIPATE IN AS WELL.
COMMITTED TRACK MANAGEMENT
TRACK SURFACE IN GREAT SHAPE LESS A COUPLE SMALL SPOTS.
LOADS OF RUNOFF EVERWHERE BUT ABOVE MENTIONED CORNER.
A CHALLENGING TRACK THAT ADDS COMPLEXITY TO HORSE POWER.
AN ORGANIZATION THAT IS DEDICATED TO RIDERS FIRST.
GREAT SCHEDULE ONE WEEKEND A MONTH INSTEAD OF BACK TO BACKS AND THEN SEVEN WEEKS OFF.
All I can say is give us a chance to earn your confidence. it may not all be rosey right away but we will listen and impliment things asap.
did I miss the part where he addressed the lack of viewing area for spectators?
great idea!
i allmost qualify for your olds boys club.so for sure franz is well beon your limitHey Franz you might qualify for the Old Boys Club
Settle down - you're taking it far too literally. The extra person on a sidecar rig is the 'monkey' - nothing more was intended.
Better to regret something you have done than something you haven't.
Well, thanks anyways 'dragger. Yay for poor run off and unsafe racing!
However. In retort my responses are below.
YES. I have throughly tested many of the run offs at Shanny and TMP. Turn 1 at TMP is a giant jump, the entry lane to which is beyond bumpy and uncontrollable. Turn 3 LITTERALLY has concrete waiting for a speeding rider in the middle of the field. Turn 9 or 10 has DRAG CARS driving nearby with draggers staring on not minding where they are going. So yes, it REALLY is THAT bad.I would say the following are suggestions, but they aren't, more like REQUIREMENTS prior to a sprint type race. The trackday/endurance "race" held prior is a different animal over a sprint.
You mean kinda like Shanny T2,T3,T5,T12 ? Mosport T10,T1,T5 ? How about Bogie........? There are issues at every track. It will be looked at but is it really that bad?
The final turn at TMP is a completely different animal than Nelsons at Shanny. The different is proximity of less than 20 feet to the wall from the apex. Every single crash I have witnessed at TMP into that wall has resulted in BOTH a destroyed bike and broken bones for the rider. Granted, there may have been crashes I have not witnessed, but I have seen several over the last couple of years. EVERY TIME.Spoke to Bic about this a couple weeks ago as well as Alpina both are under the same conclusion that airfence in this application would be all but useless because of the angle and the chances of bike first impact. A soft perm barrier would be best however still being looked into. There is another option but I wont get into it yet. Its very much like the last turn at Shanny only its only at the very exit instead of all the way through the turn. Shanny ran for twenty years before the last turn was ever addressed, Even now its still an issue. In a perfect world it wouldnt be there but it is so we have to make the best of it.
I would encourage review of their abilities and services. Could these people properly handle a fractured spine? As a racer, I am not looking for "first aid", I'm looking for someone to save my bacon if I am badly hurt or near death.Actually I was there this past Monday and all EMS ambulance staff are trained and licensed Paramedics and the track ambulance is 100% fitted the same as a road ambulance. The ONLY thing that cant be done is transport. Thats not saying that there is not a plan for road ambulance but thought you would like to know.
Better than nothing. I only ask that the flag standards are the same as CRCA and the repsonse and reliability is the same. The marshal flag standards are different currently and I have to think to understand what exactly is going on at some of these trackdays rather than instinct to a certain type of flag and if it is stationary or waved.Addressed above. You volunteering? How about getting in CRCA ears to get them on board. They and MMS have already been contacted and refuse to come outside Shanny.Progess can't be stopped because of speedbumps. Our plan is to recruit train and base a compliment of marshalls. Keep in mind I am a racer of over twenty years myself I do understand the need for these things.
A business usually gets beat up if they open a road course in an area without the various permissions and approvals. Hence the eventual final reason they got shut down. TMP's reputation then suffered grossly as they kept funds deposted by organisers that were renting the track. TMP record is poor at best, but business has been BOOMING there for them since the road course re-opened. Concidering that they own the antiquidated ex-airport surface for a course, they have a near 100% gross margin on the trackdays. A large number of the staff being volunteers further enhances the lack of costs incurred by TMP. The dragway continues to pay for itself and the facilities. There is no lack of money at TMP. Spend some back to those that spent it and upgrade the damn track. The whole "we got pillaged by the county" bit is OLD news.Likely in time. Keep in mind that this track has been raped by local council for years with little to no revenue.Did you see the 40 foot mountain of dirt on three sides? That was necver there in the begining I have every confidence and the owners assurance that improvements will come as income allows. This track hosted and ran races here in the 2000-02 and although not as comfy as some of the other circuits it is well doabale as already proven. This is intended as a grass roots club series keep that in mind.
Cool.]
There is new technology we are also looking at RFI timers. They are small adhesive stickons worth 40cents each and pick up off a radio signal. The system is more money but the riders would not need anything. The stick-on would become your tech sticker. Check it out at http://zoomius.com/ti/zoomius/index.html They have been successful at other tracks and have applied for CRTC aproval. This should be easy as they already have stricter FCC aproval.
Lets see..
Good. Good. Good, home sleeping is nice. Not a fan of drags, but OK.
Management may be committed, but Owner is not and nor does he care.
Track surface is decent at best and has some paving line issues (turn 1, 2) but is otherwise smooth. Surface is old and lacks grip as tramac seems pollished from age. Track does not flow well, but is interesting enough in some sections. Line variety is good. The organization is still proving itself. Its track record is poor. Schedule looks decent.
Regardless the real only perk of the track being its location, safety items cannot be overlooked. Please do not, or its TMP's arse financially. Enough people have brought up the issues, so TMP cannot plead lack of knowledge if a safety issue flares back and hurts someone. Negligence would play.
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Who is us? SOAR? Is SOAR just TMP under a new name or another group like Guys with bikes that are employees but not employees yet are? Example: RACE events inc is a corporation owned by either the same owner as Shanny, or by Shanny as a corporation. Is this similar to SOAR?
One other question - what licensing standard or criteria requirements for racers?
Grimmy....you can't enter! You're not fast!
And I'm sure that knee dragger will get a womens class going, 2 if he was really good novice and expert. I'm 100% in and know of lots of other ladies that have said yes
Bjturner: You in?
*~Maggie~*
Air fence is not an ideal solution, the initial capital is pretty high and if someone were to tangle with it, it needs to be replaced.
To me, this is the perfect, most permanent, safest and likely the cheapest solution available. Turn the last double apex corner into a single apex hairpin that exits into a new section of track. This new straight section ties into the existing front straight at about the end of the pit wall. I think it would also be a good idea to move the pit-out to before the last left hand corner. It would slow down traffic in the area in question making the pit-out, pit-in safer and completely removes the wall from the equation. Run off goes from 3 1/2 inches to about 40 feet or so and being that the corner would be slower i feel that would be sufficient.
I also know for a fact that this idea has been suggested to TMP at a bargain price and they did not bite.
Thoughts? Sorry, its MS Paint, i just threw it together.
Last edited by donut; 10-18-2008 at 09:21 AM.
Dealer/Vendor
I dont want to keep harping on these details. I will assure you that I will personally walk each corner and see what runoff issues are there. If there is debris that needs to moved it will be. As for "grooming" the runoff thats not likely. I stand by what I wrote before every track has good and bad issues. Try T2 at shanny. Tuck the front going in and you get a nice three foot drop onto shale rock. T12 run a little wide and you have a 1 foot gully begind the curbing (seen many bikes broken in half). I am not picking on Shanny I love the track and have many miles on it.
Roadracing is dangerous I will try to remove as much as possible. But in the end every rider has to ask themselves if they feel ok to participate.
I spoke to the EMS guy personally he is a Haldimon County paramedic that makes extra money on his days off doing this. He is the one who told me that they are all EMTs and that the ambulance was rigged the same as a MOT ambulance. If you would like I have his card and you can ask him yourself. Once again I am not saying that a MOT ambulance will not be there. My intention is to have both.
SOAR is a private ontario numbered company that is in noway connected to TMP or anyone on their board. We are working closely with TMP as we both have the same goal. We want TMP to have a good reputation and we want motorcycle racing to have another option.
Dealer/Vendor
WOW! My original comment was a exagaration for the purposes of making the point. I have no problem with a womans class if there is enough of them. If enough monkeys escape from the zoo and have little bikes and want to race they can too. Geesh. I am not calling anyone a monkey.
Dealer/Vendor
This looks good. It was also suggested to me that the track can run backwards. All the barriers in the new corner one aretemp jersey bariers that can be moved back to facilitate runoff. It would be similar to Roebling with a left instead of right. The front straight is very wide and a chicane could be used to slow the bikes down before the turn as well. That leaves a nice pit in off th let as well.
Just a thought. It can be done I was therelast weekend looking at it and taking some pics. Then the whole wall becomes moot.
It sure can be run backwards, but there are some issues when you do that as well...we did it last year.
Corner 1:
And the double apex 11a/b:
*~Maggie~*
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