118km/h in an 80km/h

[RetroGrouch]

OPP never give breaks. I've been to the Lindsay courthouse, first to get a date for first appearance, then for the actual first attendance. First attendance is when you negotiate with the prosecutor if there's anything that can be done to reduce the offence on your ticket. If they give you a decent offer, say 15 over instead of your 38 over and you agree, you plead guilty to the lesser charge and pay the reduced fine. That's what I did and without a paralegal.

[MadMax3D]

I'd get Redline to fight it for you, so you don't have to waste a day going to Lindsay.

Is Redline the way to go if you're gonna be represented by an agent? Is there a better company? Cause, if all they inevitably do is plead guilty to a lesser charge, then...I can do that without having to go to court....and for free.

[spankayf]

People use Redline to go to trial and fight the ticket not plead to a lesser charge. If I recall they arent cheap so you need to do the cost benefit analysis depending on your individual circumstance.

[jay-d]

I went and booked a court date.. what a nice ride!! I wonder how long before I get the court date in the mail but I was thinking.. I haven't had a ticket in like 4+ years, my record is squeaky clean so maybe pleading to a lesser charge or explaining my situation as I did in the first post would be the best route.

Since I already booked a court date and checked the "YES" box to challenge the officers evidence.. can I still get a first attendance?? Maybe the prosecutor will be in a friendly move and I'd be happy with a 15 over rather than a 38 over.

I spoke to my insurance as well and they said that one minor ticket won't effect my record so I'm not too concerned about it anymore.

More importantly, if someone could answer my question that would be great!

[Fingolfin]

I went and booked a court date.. what a nice ride!! I wonder how long before I get the court date in the mail but I was thinking.. I haven't had a ticket in like 4+ years, my record is squeaky clean so maybe pleading to a lesser charge or explaining my situation as I did in the first post would be the best route.

Since I already booked a court date and checked the "YES" box to challenge the officers evidence.. can I still get a first attendance?? Maybe the prosecutor will be in a friendly move and I'd be happy with a 15 over rather than a 38 over.

I spoke to my insurance as well and they said that one minor ticket won't effect my record so I'm not too concerned about it anymore.

More importantly, if someone could answer my question that would be great!

Yes, go back to the court and tell them you want to change your plea to a first attendance...

do u really trust them when they say they won't increase ur rates?

[jay-d]

Yes, go back to the court and tell them you want to change your plea to a first attendance...

do u really trust them when they say they won't increase ur rates?

Yep! It's State Farm and I sat down with her and the reason why my rates aren't changing are because I'm still a new customer with them. Had I been a long time customer and had their preferred rate; then it would have affected me.

She even plugged it into her computer and the rate came out the same so yea, I trust them that they aren't trying to screw me.

Do I have to go back to the court? That would suck.. can't do it over the phone?? Don't really feel like driving all the way out there again.. haha

[Fingolfin]

lol... crazy insurnace industry... cause you're new they reward you..
well if thats the case, great


im not sure about the phone... give them a call and try.
I'm going to hazard a guess of no, only because you're changing a plea. Sounds like something they would want you to fill out a form or something like that.

[jay-d]

lol... crazy insurnace industry... cause you're new they reward you..
well if thats the case, great

Sorry, I should clarify... because I'm a new customer, my rates are say are in the "regular customer" rate. If I had been with them for like 5 years and had their "preferred customer" rate (which is better than regular customer) then the ticket would have bumped me down to the regular customer rate because I no longer have that squeaky clean record.

Since I was always a regular customer and now have a ticket, I'm still a regular customer. If I get another ticket then I might get bumped down to say "dangerous, lets rip him off customer" rate.

[theshnizzle]

I have recieved 3 tickets in the last 3 years all on the bike,And my rates actually went down( not counting the times I have been stopped but NOT ticketed) and yes, the agent knows. But,NEVER, call an agent just to "ask",geez!

[jay-d]

So I finally had my court date yesterday! What a freaking experience. I decided to represent my self, I talked to my criminal lawyer friend and he gave me a pretty solid defence and walked me through the whole trial procedure.

I actually went there in December and the prosecutor was pushing for me to take 15km/h over but I kept saying no, I want to go to trial. The cop showed up as well and said hi to me. So when I got called, they decided to adjourn the ticket because it was that time with the crazy storm and everyone wanted to go home.

Yesterday, no one in the court room but me and three other officers so I'm shitting bricks.. no lie. I get up to table and the JP asks if I'm representing myself and that I understand the trial procedure, I said yes.

Cop goes on stand, Prosecutor asks normal questions, then it's my turn to cross examine! These were some of the questions I asked

1. It's fair to say that you've written a lot of traffic tickets, and that a large part of your duty is to enforce the highway traffic act? Is that right?

His response was "Yes."

2. It's also fair to say that your memory gets worse over time; your memory would have been better at the time of the allegation than it is now. Would you agree?

His response was messeded up because it was a simple, "Yes" but he tried to explain how he can remember specifics and what not, yet the whole world knows your memory gets worse as time goes by. Even the JP was like to the cop "I don't think you understood the question, please as the question again." So I did and he mumbles and slurs and I simply ask again, "Yes or no?" And he slurs out a "Sure."

3. On average, how many traffic enforcement tickets would you say you issue on a monthly basis?

His response: About 25

4. So it's important to keep accurate and detailed notes as part of your duty, is that true?

Again, he started going on about specifics and I added, "Well, earlier you just agreed that your memory gets worse so how can you be 100% certain if you they aren't in your notes?"

I really don't remember what his response was cause I was shitting bricks and nervous as well.

5. You do a lot of these cases, so it's difficult to recall specifics without notes, is that fair to say?

He repeated the same answer with how he can recall specifics and what not and then I went on to talk about what I observed in his lack of notes and the JP caught me off guard and she's like "Are you asking a question?" and I was like "uh.. no.. I was just stating what I've observed upon reviewing his notes"
That's when I started to **** bricks even more, my mouth got all dried up and I was like "Can I get a glass of water" and tried to pour from the little jug they have but nothing would come out and the JP goes, "Did you loosen the cap?" and I respond with, "Oh, that would make sense." and everyone started laughing.

So then, I said I have no further questions but do I have a statement to make. JP says that well, this is time to ask questions and or call any other witness' I have or evidence to bring fourth to the court and that if I give evidence under oath, the courts will view that more strongly than any statement that I make. I said no, cause I didn't want to go up on the stand.

Then I said in my statement/submission that the cop doesn't have any notes regarding colour or model of either motorcycle. He does say that he lost sight of both vehicles while turning around, there's no notation of how close the two motorcycles were apart, no estimation on the 2nd motorcycle's speed so it's possible that they could have been 10, or even 5 metres apart and that while the officer was turning around the vehicle that the motorcycle that was in the rear passed the motorcycle in the lead and because there's no notation of colour of either bike, the officer isn't 100% certain that the motorcycle he targeted and radared was in face the motorcycle he pulled over.

After that, the JP started saying a whole bunch of stuff that didn't make sense to me, I really thought I was screwed and I thought I was getting convicted and then the Prosecutor interrupts her and is about to say something and JP goes, "Excuse me, it's my turn to speak." and then she kept going and after she was done, I didn't understand any of it and I said "Miss, that doesn't make sense to me?" and then she went to elaborate and then at the end she goes "This case hasn't been proved beyond reasonable doubt that the officer targeted and pulled over the correct motrocycle, you're free to go."

That caught me by surprise and I'm like "What?" And she's like, "That's all sir, you may go now." So I said, "So I won?" and she smiles and goes, "Yes." and then I was like "Thank you!" and packed my **** up, smiled at the cops and went on my merry way!

Then I waited outside cause I still had no idea what the hell just happened and the cop comes outside and I asked him what just happened in there and he explained to me that she thought the cop targeted the first motorcycle and pulled over the 2nd one, which is fine but you won. Then I said thank you and shook the cops hand and said that this is my first time and I was nervous and he's like "Good for you, you did a good job." and said thanks again and now I have the biggest ****ing grin on my face ever!!!

[FiReSTaRT]

Great news. This is actually some pretty good ammo for group ride robbery situations. Thanks for posting it up.

[spankayf]

Nicely done... its always a good sign when the crown and the JP get huffy with each other

[Metastable]

Nice work man!!!

So it's better than pleading guilty with an explanation now isn't it?

[savvy]

congrats. great story and pretty decent of the officer to explain things after.
well done.

[gAbRoO]

Great Job!!!
Now i dont feel as bad for not getting pulled over at the same time :P

ps when you getting your new bike??

[Rossi86]

Good Job! You made it sound too easy, even though it's psycologically hard to be in the courtroom. Last time I went to court, I was so nervous I just blurted out my name before I was even asked to state it . The cop wasn't in the courtroom yet; so I guess, subconsiously I was just trying to speed up the process and get the hell outta there before the cop showed up. Aside from getting rid of the ticket, I'm sure you feel like you've accomplished something.

[-=phelan=-]

damn man great job.

[jay-d]

It was pretty awesome!! I never want to do that ever again though cause man, it was so scary.. but if I ever have to defend myself in court again, I will go to court and watch a whole bunch of trials before mine actually takes places so that way I can be 100% certain what the procedure is like.

It saved me $283 ticket and no hit on insurance!!

[Rob MacLennan]

Thanks for reporting back with the results.