Dissention in the USA

[Brian P]

MIC announces the USSB roadracing series:

http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/...?article=34127

So, that makes it official; although they say this is not the CART and IRL all over again ... it's the CART and IRL all over again.

There is a companion article suggesting that the MIC has been less than perfect (to say the least) in the past regarding communication with the media. The announcement is short on details, too.

What's the schedule? Recent articles about conversations with selected racetrack owners have said they had heard nothing ... although they may have been under obligation to say nothing, so that might not be true.

Who's competing? It's obvious from recent events that Honda and Suzuki will go to this series. But Yamaha have previously announced that they are on board with the DMG ... but they are the only manufacturer to have done so.

What happens if nobody other than Yamaha offers DMG a bike to homologate? DMG becomes the "Yamaha Cup". Remains to be seen which direction Kawasaki will go, and it remains to be seen if this new series has any place for privateers.

Who will broadcast it? SPEED already has contracts with AMA (now DMG). DMG is associated with NASCAR. SPEED has contracts with NASCAR. Can SPEED take on a competing series and broadcast it? (I'm inclined to think not.) Will MIC find someone else to broadcast it? Won't be any FOX affiliate, since SPEED is part of that group.

My hope at this point is actually that every manufacturer goes one way or the other - to the extent that the opposing series promptly fails. There is not room in the USA for two weak superbike series.

[nokturnal]

Bombshell: New US Superbike Series Announced</B>
by staff
Wednesday, September 10, 2008
This just in from the MIC:
Motorcycle Industry Council
To Launch The USSB Championship
Factory Riders Offered a New National Series

IRVINE, Calif., Sep. 10, 2008 - The Motorcycle Industry Council, the national trade association representing top motorcycle manufacturers and 300-plus other members, will launch a new professional road racing series next year in the United States.
The MIC has formally established USSB, Inc., and already is at work creating a national championship for 2009 that will take place at major racing facilities, feature factory superbike teams and rules similar to those now in place - rules encouraging technological development that advances motorcycle engineering.

The USSBSM Championship is being designed to carry on America's tradition, spanning more than two decades, of world-class superbike racing that showcases the nation's best riders on the best motorcycles in the country. The premier class, U.S. Super Bike, will invite teams running the highly developed, factory-backed, fan-favorite racing motorcycles (1,000cc fours and larger-displacement twins) that have long been the basis for superbike racing. The inaugural USSB series will include U.S. Sport Bike, a 600cc category similar to the World Supersport Championship and others.
"We initiated USSB because next year it will offer the only racing series in America for unrestrained factory superbikes and their teams, as well as those who aspire to join their ranks and compete with them," said MIC President Tim Buche. "We recognize the strong support for this level of racing, among enthusiasts, among manufacturers and among riders. With the other series set to abandon superbikes as we've come to know them, USSB will fill that void."
Buche said the MIC engaged in a development process for USSB that takes into consideration the various needs of industry members, manufacturers, track owners, sponsors, racing fans and riders, as well as the desire to grow the sport of road racing. In particular, there is a need to allow manufacturers to use road racing to advance research and development and improve future production motorcycles available to consumers. Buche said that the MIC possesses the resources, the capabilities, the access to talent, and the ability to contract with various groups and firms, to meet all of those needs and wishes.
"This is America, a big country with a big motorcycle market that deserves a world-class championship with full-on factory bikes raced by star riders," said Ty van Hooydonk, USSB managing director. "The USSB Championship is our answer. We want to steer away from engine restrictors, away from mandated power-to-weight ratios, spec tires and spec ECUs. We want to set the stage for racing teams to compete, on the track, in the R&D shops, in the way they develop their bikes and help develop production bikes, in how they develop their engineering staffs and crews, and their riders, too. Let them do what they do best and go racing."
Organization
The not-for-profit MIC has established USSB, Inc., a wholly owned subsidiary, to be the owner-operator of the series. As the sole shareholder for the subsidiary, the MIC board will appoint the USSB Board of Directors that will then function independently and guide the series.
To maintain the integrity of the competition, USSB, Inc. also will establish an affiliated, but independent sanctioning body, USSB Sanctioning, Inc., which will employ the series commissioner, a racing CEO who will have ultimate responsibility for all competition-related aspects of the series. USSB, Inc. will serve as the series promoter responsible for developing series sponsors, managing series communications and partnering with stakeholders and others to present the series.
Four stakeholder groups will each have a voice and participate in series governance: riders, manufacturers, sanctioning and promoters.
USSB will help establish a riders association that will then operate independently as it represents all of the on-track competitors in the series. Participating manufacturers will form their own committee through the MIC and represent factories. Sanctioning will oversee tech inspection, rules and regulations and will manage race organization and administration. Promoters will include individual promoters and a racetrack association in collaboration with USSB, Inc.
Marketing and Communication
"We're going to have a compelling story to share," van Hooydonk said. "The USSB Championship will feature the nation's top level of motorcycle racing, with phenomenal riders capable of competing in any league, and high-tech superbikes that are among the fastest on Earth. We have a great deal of experience with marketing the story of motorcycling, and we will apply all of it to road racing." USSB news and updates will be available 24/7 at USSBCHAMPIONSHIP.COM. The site will be live Friday September 12, 2008.
USSB, Inc. will establish a communications campaign to improve visibility and interest in road racing, include all types of media, and bring in new fans while maintaining its enthusiast base. For 20 years, the MIC has generated major mainstream media coverage through Discover Today's Motorcycling. DTM promotes responsible riding by generating positive print, broadcast and online coverage, and through a responsive news bureau that annually fields thousands of inquiries from journalists nationwide.
DTM staff regularly work with national media, based in New York and other key markets, on dozens of motorcycle stories every year. Recent DTM placements include coverage with "Good Morning America," the New York Times, USA Today, Popular Mechanics, Maxim, Playboy, and even La Opinion, the nation's largest Hispanic newspaper. DTM generated major media for the landmark "Art of the Motorcycle" exhibit at the Guggenheim Museum in New York City, and hosted its own "Rockefeller Center Motorcycle Shows," seen by tens of thousands of visitors in Midtown Manhattan.
ENDS

[minifig-phil]

Interesting
we'll see how it unfolds.

[franz131]

Who's competing? It's obvious from recent events that Honda and Suzuki will go to this series. But Yamaha have previously announced that they are on board with the DMG ... but they are the only manufacturer to have done so.

What happens if nobody other than Yamaha offers DMG a bike to homologate? DMG becomes the "Yamaha Cup". Remains to be seen which direction Kawasaki will go, and it remains to be seen if this new series has any place for privateers.

Fortunately there are other manufacturers that would get involved like Ducati, MV Agusta, Buell and Triumph. Manufacturer participation is moot if the rules allow bikes to be built with readily available parts and the prize money is fat.

Who will broadcast it? SPEED already has contracts with AMA (now DMG). DMG is associated with NASCAR. SPEED has contracts with NASCAR. Can SPEED take on a competing series and broadcast it? (I'm inclined to think not.) Will MIC find someone else to broadcast it? Won't be any FOX affiliate, since SPEED is part of that group.

Nevermind TV, they don't even have enough tracks to race on yet. *edit* Or rules (beyond "yes, Suzuki") or staff or a schedule.

I agree that this is a stupid power-play and needs to be squashed quickly.

[kneedragger88]

I think the MIC is bluffing. Yamaha has already said they are running AMA. Ducati has no official program. That leaves three factory teams what are they planning a SBK race with 8-10 bikes?
DMG has put up significant purse money and built a platform that a privateer team can actually get a piece of the pie. If I had a privateer team I can tell you where I am racing.
MIC has to get dates,tracks,promotors,TV deals etc in the very near future. Good luck with that.
Last week it was made official that NASCAR bought Grand AM which is the official parent of DMG all of what was/is owned by France. Now there is a direct link with NASCAR.
What track/promotor/network will risk a relationship fracture with NASCAR to allow MIC to throw a temper tantrum.The factory teams keep going on about the best riders and the best bikes. You have riders like Mladin crying like the whinner he has always been. Mark my words, if the France's can organize a series where there is some money parity the riders will come running when the $$$$ start getting trickled down. There are not many racers that will stand out on principal when seven figured salaries are being handed out. The AMA has been so disfunctional for so long having another season of same is to me as appealing as watching paint dry.
The France family and NASCAR have very deep pockets as we know. So do the factory teams. The big difference is that NASCAR will spend it.
I say gooooooooo AMA! When the factory teams have 8 bikes on the grid racing on some third rate track with TV coverage by the local cable company. They will soon come around.
But maybe I am wrong

[franz131]

I'm pretty sure the 'USSB' won't be racing at Infineon.

http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/...?article=34138

Called like it is.

[kneedragger88]

Like rats from a sinking ship it has already begun.
Yamaha -DMG
Infinion- DMG
Kawasaki- Not committed, the fact that they havent jumped in with MIC speaks volumes

http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/...?article=34143

[invictus43]

Nevermind TV, they don't even have enough tracks to race on yet. *edit* Or rules (beyond "yes, Suzuki") or staff or a schedule.

I agree that this is a stupid power-play and needs to be squashed quickly.

You know, back when the IRL and CART split, I read a column by Brock Yates, sort of a Don Cherry of the car world in the States. He wrote that the IRL would triumph because...drum roll..the track owners were behind it. I remembered that column to see if it would play out that way. 8 years later he was bang on the money. CART basically folded and the IRL gobbled them up. The whole thing was a disaster for open wheel racing in the States, a boon to NASCAR and the funny thing is, IRL became exactly what CART was, except perhaps for the costs. IRL said there were too many foreign drivers in CART, too many foreign manufacturers, too much money to race, road courses. IRL is now at least 50% foreign drivers, Honda engines only, English chassis, road and ovals. It's not much cheese to race, but nobody watches and the TV audience is horrific. CART folded..so you know how that went. So now they're back where they started but with little money and little audience. I dunno how much of this is relevant to DMG/MIC, but when you're already scraping for viewers and ticket buyers, it's not the time to start messing with the product unless you're REALLY convinced you can save the world.

[franz131]

Like rats from a sinking ship it has already begun.
Yamaha -DMG
KTM - DMG
Infinion- DMG
Kawasaki- Not committed, the fact that they havent jumped in with MIC speaks volumes

http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/...?article=34143

Fixed

[minifig-phil]

Since Ulrich has already stated he is going to do DMG next year anything on his web site is biased towards the DMG and has to be taken with a grain of salt.

I bet Infinion changes there minds if the USSB series becomes successful.

I do have my doubts as to if the USSB series will ever happen since the DMG's pocket are REAL deep and they have a lot of weight to throw around.

It's a real shame it has come to this. I really wonder first of all why the AMA sold Pro racing and then why to DMG there were much better interests in the AMA Pro racing.
Didn't the AMA remember what happened with CCS racing and Edmonston?

I hate to see Motorcycle racing get NASCRAPIZED its bad enough we have NASCRAP.

[kneedragger88]

Since Ulrich has already stated he is going to do DMG next year anything on his web site is biased towards the DMG and has to be taken with a grain of salt.

I bet Infinion changes there minds if the USSB series becomes successful.

I do have my doubts as to if the USSB series will ever happen since the DMG's pocket are REAL deep and they have a lot of weight to throw around.

It's a real shame it has come to this. I really wonder first of all why the AMA sold Pro racing and then why to DMG there were much better interests in the AMA Pro racing.
Didn't the AMA remember what happened with CCS racing and Edmonston?

I hate to see Motorcycle racing get NASCRAPIZED its bad enough we have NASCRAP.

John has no problem bitcch slapping anyone. I have seen him go toe to toe with both Colin and Roger at the riders meetings at Daytona. You obviously dont read his news posts much he has been publishing loads of negative articles,quotes and interviews since this all started. I may even suggest that his team (Hammer) will race AMA cause thats where the purse is and his team is well enough organized and funded to actually get some. Besides at the momment there is no MIC series.

Lets for a minute say that MIC can pull this off (which I seriously doubt). They want status quo? Is racing good in the AMA right now? Has it been good for the last 10 yrs? Just what the heell are we all ****** about? The racing sucks *****, what are we trying to save? Is DMGs answer the begin/end all I doubt it but someting has to change and this is a start. So Suzuki and Honda (so far thats all thats on board) are going to fix everything by branching out on their own under the MIC banner and keeping the racing EXACTLY like it is now. Woooooooo freakin Hoooooooo.
Infineon will give a rats behind what the MIC wants. The track like all tracks want to put bums in the seats and see their facility showcased on TV and print media both of which DMG will do.
I have just a little experience with Grand AM and Edmonston and France. I can say right here right now, both are class acts. I have nothing but praise for them both as a racer that has raced their series and a fan
As for AMA and CCS (Edmonston) that was AMAs board of directors that basically stole his series. They took it operated it under his copyrighted name and told him to piss off when he complained that the AMA broke the contract. The AMAs lawyers told them to make it right at the very begining but the AMA board at the time used AMA money to settle a personal issue with Edmonston. He took them to court and the AMA lost (rightfully).Roger ended up with a settlement in the millions and deserved every penny. The AMA directors were donkeys.
People by human nature dont like change. All I can say is the now sucks so lets hope and we will see if the tommorrow will be better.

[franz131]

AMA sold Pro Racing because they suck at it and it was taking resources away from their advocacy work, which they're actually very good at.

They sold to DMG because DMG has money, and lots of it, has an emerging brand in MotoST
and has the guy who built the Canadian series DMG wants to model (Colin Fraser).

Personally, I would have maintained the rules until 2009 while a new set was being built. They could have easily added their Daytona Superbike formula to FX and changed the name for 2010. They could also have killed off Superstock or Supersport and made the manufacturers participate in all the other classes, including MotoST.

If I was Yamaha, I'd put up some massive contingency and take the grassroots from Suzuki. Suzuki should be punished for their self-serving tantrum.

This, of course, is all hindsight and personal opinion.

[kneedragger88]

AMA sold Pro Racing because they suck at it and it was taking resources away from their advocacy work, which they're actually very good at.

They sold to DMG because DMG has money, and lots of it, has an emerging brand in MotoST
and has the guy who built the Canadian series DMG wants to model (Colin Fraser).

Personally, I would have maintained the rules until 2009 while a new set was being built. They could have easily added their Daytona Superbike formula to FX and changed the name for 2010. They could also have killed off Superstock or Supersport and made the manufacturers participate in all the other classes, including MotoST.

If I was Yamaha, I'd put up some massive contingency and take the grassroots from Suzuki. Suzuki should be punished for their self-serving tantrum.

This, of course, is all hindsight and personal opinion.

Well said Franz. Maybe us old farts should apply to DMG and sort this mess out Motorcycle racing will be fine and balance to the universe restored sooner or later. The factorys include Suzuki will come play because they have to. The US market is to big and too important to ignore and while Yamaha and ...........BMW start getting press in the AMA Daytona Superbike Series they will have no choice or start losing market share. You know DMG will be buying ads everywhere.

[franz131]

Looks like another nail in the coffin of the still-born USSB.

I took the liberty of skipping some of the boring stuff for your benefit.

INDIANAPOLIS, IN, SEPT. 14 – Those hopeful for a peaceful resolution of the current stand-off in AMA road racing will find solace in the fact that Daytona Motorsports Group CEO Roger Edmondson and American Honda vice president Ray Blank met today at Indianapolis Motor Speedway and they did so with civility and, ultimately, productivity, according to both parties. And the result may be a resolution to the current uncertainty that surrounds the series – uncertainty that was given new life by last week’s announcement by the Motorcycle Industry Council (MIC) that they were standing by in case an alternate series was deemed necessary by its shareholders.

“I would characterize the meeting as very productive and very constructive, I believe, for both of us,” Edmondson said in a phone conversation this afternoon after attending the Red Bull Indianapolis Grand Prix. “Blah blah blah blah. I felt it was absolutely worthwhile."

“Blah blah blah blah. Hopefully, we will be in a position to announce things at Laguna Seca.”

One of the things that Edmondson has realized is that a horsepower-restricted 600cc Supersport class (or what DMG calls Daytona Superbikes) won’t be supported by at least two of the manufacturers, Honda and Suzuki, and Kawasaki doesn’t like it either. And he’s adjusted his stance on that.

“I would say that there is truth to that [DMG dropping the horsepower limits on the class] because I’ve been willing to put things on the table to determine what is important to him and what is really important to me and we discussed a lot of details,” Edmondson said. “Blah blah blah blah.”

Edmondson expects that all we be resolved by the final round of the AMA Superbike Championship at Laguna Seca, September 27-28.

“In 13 days from now, I’ll fly out to Laguna and I’d like to think we’d be in position to a do a dog and pony show in the press room that Saturday, but blah blah blah blah.”

Blank responded in an e-mail, stating that he also came away from the meeting with optimism.

"In the spirit of cooperation, Roger Edmondson of DMG and I met today to discuss Honda's position regarding the proposed AMA Pro Racing road race series,” Blank wrote. “A constructive dialogue was struck, and while there is much to do in a short time to prepare ourselves for the impending 2009 season, we believe we can strike an accord that will prove satisfactory to our most important partners, from our race fans to our facility owners and operators as well as our sponsors. We are encouraged at the opportunity ahead."

[minifig-phil]

Sounds promising

[franz131]

How would you regulate the 600 class, Phil?

No one wants $50k 600s, so what is the alternative?

Factory 'supersport' bikes make over 120hp, no privateer can hope to get near that without direct factory support.

Do we expect the 70+ supersport bikes that arrive at Daytona to be directly supported by a factory? If not, then who is?

If we simply decide that some will be uncompetitive for no reason beyond lacking the connections to get parts, we've just recreated the old AMA.

The dyno allows for any team, with sufficient knowledge and funds, to build a competitive bike, which is what DMG and privateers want.

[Brian P]

And therein lies the dilemma. Perhaps Roadracing World was right about this (I think they are)
The real issue may not be rules, but rather any attempt to force factory teams to actually follow the rules...

In this day of electronically-controlled engines, even dyno testing is not sufficient to prove that a bike meets a horsepower limit. All it takes is for an otherwise-OEM ECU to have a line of code that detects a certain prescribed but rather out-of-the-ordinary sequence of inputs to happen, to switch to an alternate set of engine mapping ...

DMG should not have tried to ram rule changes down the manufacturer's throats. They should have continued with the previously-agreed-upon 2009 rules package, and then harmonized with World Supersport for 2010 and beyond.

[minifig-phil]

How would you regulate the 600 class, Phil?

No one wants $50k 600s, so what is the alternative?

Factory 'supersport' bikes make over 120hp, no privateer can hope to get near that without direct factory support.

Do we expect the 70+ supersport bikes that arrive at Daytona to be directly supported by a factory? If not, then who is?

If we simply decide that some will be uncompetitive for no reason beyond lacking the connections to get parts, we've just recreated the old AMA.

The dyno allows for any team, with sufficient knowledge and funds, to build a competitive bike, which is what DMG and privateers want.

First of all the 600 supersport class just the way it is now is got to be one of the best and most competitive classes out there. I can’t believe the DMG is getting rid of it!
For 600 WSS they have to use homologated parts. Back in '93 when I almost did the British and German rounds of the 600 WSS they only allowed parts from the manufacturer i.e. HRC parts. The complete engine kit in '93 for the CBR600 was only 10k.
I can't see it being a whole lot more today other than the electronics.

With the prize money the DMG is offering paying for those parts shouldn’t be a problem at all!!!

As far as using the dyno after races, that’s got to be one of the stupidest rules CF ever came up with!
I think the only reason he did it was because he didn’t have the staff to police the rules back then. If you remember Everybody was cheating so bad back then.
I remember the Honda’s were so fast back then and heard it from quite a few riders that they were using many kitted parts in their bikes.
I was riding for Yamaha at the time and Yamaha didn’t want to supply me with any YEC parts for my 600 so they were stock and you could see it.
With the new electronics on bikes today it is so easy to cheat on the dyno rule it's not funny. Plus talking to top engine tuners they will tell you it costs more with this rule than with out the dyno.

When I did AMA 600 supersport races in the mid 90's my bikes were very competitive down the straights. Owen use to say that I was cheating all the time and I swear the motors were so stock that I never even took the valve covers off (didn't even check valve clearance). The speed the factory guys had was in suspension set-up and being able to go out on new tires every time they went out on the track when I only had 3 sets to get me through 2 classes the whole weekend. It wasn't because they had tons of HP The AMA was checking and they didn't risk cheating like they did in Canada.

[franz131]

First of all the 600 supersport class just the way it is now is got to be one of the best and most competitive classes out there. I can’t believe the DMG is getting rid of it!
For 600 WSS they have to use homologated parts. Back in '93 when I almost did the British and German rounds of the 600 WSS they only allowed parts from the manufacturer i.e. HRC parts. The complete engine kit in '93 for the CBR600 was only 10k.
I can't see it being a whole lot more today other than the electronics.

With the prize money the DMG is offering paying for those parts shouldn’t be a problem at all!!!

I agree that it can be done for a reasonable cost, IF the manufacturers agree to supply anyone who wants a kit. The key is that the good parts are available, not just on the factory bikes.

As far as using the dyno after races, that’s got to be one of the stupidest rules CF ever came up with!
I think the only reason he did it was because he didn’t have the staff to police the rules back then. If you remember Everybody was cheating so bad back then.
I remember the Honda’s were so fast back then and heard it from quite a few riders that they were using many kitted parts in their bikes.
I was riding for Yamaha at the time and Yamaha didn’t want to supply me with any YEC parts for my 600 so they were stock and you could see it.
With the new electronics on bikes today it is so easy to cheat on the dyno rule it's not funny. Plus talking to top engine tuners they will tell you it costs more with this rule than with out the dyno.

I agree again (F***), a motor build is a motor build, 185 or 200 hp. But at the same time you mention that Yamaha didn't want to sell you parts, so you were slow. Readily available parts and strict enforcement is a way better system.

[minifig-phil]

Did you read this on RRW

The AMA, AMA Pro Racing/DMG and the FIM are committed to strengthening ties in the future, including an effort to develop standardized FIM rules for National Superbike Series held around the globe.

That's the message that came out of a meeting involving AMA President Rob Dingman, AMA Pro Racing/DMG President Roger Edmondson and FIM President Vito Ippolito at Indianapolis Motor Speedway on Saturday.

More details will be posted as they become available.




WHAT!!!! Isn't this what everyone BUT the DMG want???
I think DMG stands for DUMB MORONIC GOONS.
I wonder what color the sky is in Roger's world! Or if he even knows that??