Reply With QuoteDude if burping the filter worked its the impeller.
should be fine next oil change.
Do a couple of wheelies and an endo and u be aight.
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Sounds like one of those projects that will end in your bike being in 200 pieces.
Best of luck to you and hopefully it's some dumb thing that's easy to fix up.
The artist formely known as Frenchfry
Dude if burping the filter worked its the impeller.
should be fine next oil change.
Do a couple of wheelies and an endo and u be aight.
Learn something new everyday. Now if you could just explain to me why you need to burp the filter in the first place
Well in theory, your releasing any air pockets by "burping the filter" by loosening it slightly while the bike is running.Originally Posted by Dober
Learn something new everyday. Now if you could just explain to me why you need to burp the filter in the first place
Zin's bike has 20-25psi of oil presure at idle, at 3000 rpm it was around 60psi (cold engine)
But had a definite rod knock before oil filter was burpt.
I think burping the oil filter is a bandaid.
I would be tearing down the engine and checking all clearences.
There is a pocket that should never completly drain of oil but it does. It's design was to create a turbine effect drawing oil thru the filter.
Impeller rattle sounds different than rod knock, it only gets slightly faster when u rev it.
It's common on some of those bikes of that model.
If the person is 100% sure they heard rod knock and not impeller rattle I would do a clearance check or split the cases. To take it appart and learn what's in there have lunch and a few beers is about 5 hours if you work slow.
I recomend taking it appart if you are planning on keeping the bike.
that way you learn what is where and its purpose.
I've never owned this bike but I've fixed more than I can count.
If you need bike specific technical info please look into bike specific technical forums.
forum members are full of knowledge but they hang out on their home forums.
Maybe we need brand specific sub catagories in the technical forum.
Hrmm, knew I should have video tapped the sound before attempting to burp it. At least that way I'd be able to give you guys a reference to tare apart the sound. Even so I'm interested to follow the impeller for the source of the sound since it wasn't very loud this time and it does get only slightly faster when we revved it.
Sadly, as much as I'd like to take things apart and have an educational afternoon. I do not have the tools nor the garage space to work on such a job, I wouldn't trust doing this outside in my driveway having everything apart. Would be too easy to have something like a couple pine needles get into open parts.
I plan on keeping the bike for at least 2 more years I figure but I want to keep it in paramount shape so it won't be difficult to sell it when the time comes, even with high kms on it. Thanks for the info there mydaddy, if you wanted to take a crack at it I'd supply the beers.
Sure I just need the keys and ownership. RoflHrmm, knew I should have video tapped the sound before attempting to burp it. At least that way I'd be able to give you guys a reference to tare apart the sound. Even so I'm interested to follow the impeller for the source of the sound since it wasn't very loud this time and it does get only slightly faster when we revved it.
Sadly, as much as I'd like to take things apart and have an educational afternoon. I do not have the tools nor the garage space to work on such a job, I wouldn't trust doing this outside in my driveway having everything apart. Would be too easy to have something like a couple pine needles get into open parts.
I plan on keeping the bike for at least 2 more years I figure but I want to keep it in paramount shape so it won't be difficult to sell it when the time comes, even with high kms on it. Thanks for the info there mydaddy
, if you wanted to take a crack at it I'd supply the beers.
When you have time make a post, you need to learn foe yourself. That's what I had 2 do.
The people on here are great and a few of us will more than happy to drink beer and watch u do the work. That way u learn and we're there for backup.
Sure sounded like a rod knock to me, but at a different pitch then I have ever heard before, much more metalic sound, unlike the deeper noise that you would get with a auto engine.
I contibuted it to the thin wall aluminium engine casting.
I have never heard or heard of impeller rattle.
Maybe thats what I heard.
Last edited by RonnieRev; 08-27-2008 at 10:09 PM.
where's johnnyp636?
JohnnyP you've got more experience with these bikes, how does the impeller well end up trapping air?
Oh I'll never turn down learning how to fix something new on my bike yet as I was stating, I lack the tools and environment to do the bigger jobs. So if someone where to supply the tools, garage and know how I'd be more then willing to get my hands dirty. They could have the beer, just as long as their advice/teaching doesn't go down the crapper with every cold one they consume.
As for this impeller, I'd like to learn more about it myself. As much as the sound was similar to a rod knock, I have my doubts about it. To my understanding, rod knocks don't just go away. If the rod is out of place, loosening the oil filter isn't going to put it back in place. Then again, I'm just speculating.
Your crankshaft has a specific tolerance between the journals and the BE bearings, when the proper oil pressure is present the crank actually floats between the oil flowing through the bearings....So without proper oil pressure at the journals it will knock, and when it gets the proper pressure the crank starts to float like its supposed to and stops knocking....Oh I'll never turn down learning how to fix something new on my bike yet as I was stating, I lack the tools and environment to do the bigger jobs. So if someone where to supply the tools, garage and know how I'd be more then willing to get my hands dirty. They could have the beer, just as long as their advice/teaching doesn't go down the crapper with every cold one they consume.
As for this impeller, I'd like to learn more about it myself. As much as the sound was similar to a rod knock, I have my doubts about it. To my understanding, rod knocks don't just go away. If the rod is out of place, loosening the oil filter isn't going to put it back in place. Then again, I'm just speculating.
That is why you hear that knock and it went away as the oil made its way to where it needs to be.....I doubt youve got a spun bearing, I know what it takes to do that and I just dont see it happening with your riding style....But if you really want too, 1 hr and we can split your cases and have a look at the crank journals and BE bearings....
What are you going to do if there is a spun bearing anyways? I dont rebuild there motors I replace them....A crank is $600 and bearings, gaskets, etc etc to rebuild it are going to cost $200 or so...For $600 you can get a low KM replacement motor....I blew my 04 636 motor not too long ago doing a rev limmiter coaster, the oil light came on and 5 seconds later she was knocking like crazy....I drained the oil found heavy bearing particles, and swaped it out for a spare motor and am leaving the blown motor for parts...Its not worth fixing IMO! Your better off replaceing it for $600-800....
I would take johnnyp up on his offer. Its more benificial in the future. I'd be intrested in being there.
Don't be shy ask what everthing is and what it does when we're in there.
Thanks JP for the rundown. As for the knock, yeah I am pretty sure you are right. I doubt it's a spun bearing as well. Cause as you say, you know my riding style and I'm no where near aggressive enough with the bike to do that. I really have no interest at this moment to split the cases open unless I really need to. As educational as it would be, I don't want to piss away the oil I just put in there and not fiddle with something that doesn't need fixing. (assuming it's something as simple as pressure flow)
As for what would I do if there was a spun bearing, nothing. Do exactly what you would do, get a new motor if I could but as we are both confident that it's not a spun bearing I don't believe I have to worry about that.
Now on the other hand, my valves are in serious need of an inspection. Are you versed in knowing how to do that and make adjustments? Would you be interested in showing me the ropes on how to do that?
Eric it's a Kawasaki...they all rattle a little.
Glad you didnt take my "riding style" comment to heart, cause I dont mean you ride like a sissy...Its just that to spin a bearing your really need to be pounding on the revs, and they can take alot before they actually let go...And I just dont see you blowing up these 636 motors...
If you really want too see what it looks like, I have my blown motor sitting on the floor here. If you want to you can split it open and have a look, but its not going to be very exiting...Youll just see a gouged crank journal and a bearing thats burnt up and gouged aswell...
I havent done valves on any of my 636 motors, last bike I did check them on was my 03 R6 and even with 50,000+ KM on it they were still within the spec....I can do it but its one of those jobs that for $200 Id rather just drop it off somewhere and have it done... Again I dont really do them thou, cause Id rather just replace motors then dump money into fixing up high milage motors... Its all math to me, $200 to do valves on a motor that has 50,000KM or $600 for a new replacement motor with 10,000KM.....
And BTW if its valve train noise that makes you want to check your valves, think about installing a manual cam chain tensioner first....Every 636 Ive worked on befitted from a manual CCT, some were so loud people thought they were blown motors before the manual CCT's...In fact I just sold a 04 636 not too long ago, and when the buyer (also a freind) heard it run he wasnt going to byt it...I told him to wait 20min while I installed a manual CCT that I said I would include in the deal, after the install it sounded mint and he bought the bike...
Last edited by JohnnyP636; 08-29-2008 at 03:46 PM.
Correct!Eric it's a Kawasaki...they all rattle a little.
Why would I take that to heart? I know for one, I don't stunt so I'm not exactly putting stress on the motor there. I also don't take my bike to the track (yet) and ride out the gear box like you would there. So really, what damage could I do to it on the street? It's all good man, I gotcha. Kawasaki motors can take a real beating and keep on ticking.
As for opening up the motor, it's not needed but it would be more for my benefit to better understand how it works. It's easier to understand something when it's in pieces I find then attempting to visualize something you've never seen in your mind.
Well I know the valves could most likely use an adjustment, the power isn't consistent and it's not the kind of lack in power consistent of say... oh it's just a bit too hot out today and it's starving the bike of cool air kind of thing. I've been on this bike long enough to tell when something is off and there really isn't anything else I've overlooked other then the valves.
Hah, What chu talkin bout Jay?! We all know they shake, rattle and knock but more often than not it's that pesky CCT!
i have the same problem with my Z1000 and yeah every oil change i have to burp her, other wise there will be knocking. It gets messy sometime, some people suggest revving the **** out of it when you start it but NEVER do that. Loosening the filter and tightening back up when oil starts to drip does the trick pretty good.
it is a Kawi thing
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