Endurance Event at TMP

[STARSHIP]

re-fuelling?

[toastman]

will be required

re-fuelling?

[toastman]

running street tires will be no problem to last this distance
passing closely/trading paint will get you a black flag penalty and you will be sitting on the sidelines while you cool down.
there is no grid start

I don't have the answer to the sanctioning body question

just a thought off the top of my head.


From websters:

"RACE"

Function: Noun

a contest or rivalry involving progress toward a goal


so,

The goal is to complete as many laps as possible in a 3 hour timeframe?

The timeframe is 5pm to 8pm.

I think the definition of a "RACE" has been met by their own description, however they also claim this is NOT a race, even though the event is described as their "very first Endurance Race Event"

I'm a bit slow on the uptake, but this sounds like a race event to me.

Any race event that I've ever been involved in, be it roadracing, motocross, supermoto, dirt track or enduro was required to have a sanctioning body involved.

It also required that you have a competion membership with said sanctioning body

Who will be the sanctioning body for this event?

CMA?
CMRC?
PMP?
RACE?

What are the license requirements for the event?


on the technical side, is a tire change during pit stops mandatory??

3 hours of riding would work out to be about 140 laps on this track, if the average lap time is 1:30, which is on the slow side for this track.

140 laps is well beyond the useful life of even a new set of race tires(Pirelli recommends changing tires after 70-80 laps).

Add to this, the fact that the event is being run after an all day lapping event, where most people will already have 50+ laps on their tires before starting the 3 hour event, and most trackday riders start the day on used tires to begin with.

so, a conservative estimate is going to see a racing event run on tires with close to 200 laps of wear on them?

[Grimmy]

Its a race, plain and simple. By making a goal or target, it instantly became one.

It would have been easier and legal to organise the evening this way:

20 bikes, 2 riders can share a bike, open track for 3 hours. Sessions will be waved every 20 minutes, but no requirement to pit is present.

No contest, no prizes.

[bitzz]

If it is a RACE then it will void any insurance policies on the bikes.

There will be alot of wrecked bikes and riders after this one. It should be entertaining at least.

[chinto]

If it is a RACE then it will void any insurance policies on the bikes.

pretty sure just taking it out for a track day will do that anyways no?

[donut]

pretty sure just taking it out for a track day will do that anyways no?

No, a trackday is not a "timed event".

This endurance ride is.. sort of.. Its timed at 3hrs. The same way the 24 hours of Le Mans is a race, this is a race. Who goes the farthest in X amount of time wins.

[chinto]

No, a trackday is not a "timed event".

This endurance ride is.. sort of.. Its timed at 3hrs. The same way the 24 hours of Le Mans is a race, this is a race. Who goes the farthest in X amount of time wins.

I realize that, but if you wreck your bike on a closed circuit track, do you honestly think that insurance will pay the claim? I don't.

[eastcoast_gsx]

I realize that, but if you wreck your bike on a closed circuit track, do you honestly think that insurance will pay the claim? I don't.

I have been told some will... no idea for sure. Would be crazy to try it IMO.

[reciprocity]

I realize that, but if you wreck your bike on a closed circuit track, do you honestly think that insurance will pay the claim? I don't.

I think Bitzz is talking about the event/facility insurance.

Does TMP have insurance that will cover motorcycle racing events?

Trackdays and race events require different types of insurance coverage for the organizers and the host facility, which is why a sanctioning body is required for a racing event.

[eastcoast_gsx]

Funny thing is... I bet there are people reading this thinking that we are a bunch of a-holes just trying to rain on the TMP idea.... when in fact, we are actually trying to protect them.

I would hate to see the lawsuit that could arise from a mis-managed event such as this. It could take the road course and the drag strip offline for a while.

[Dj Eclipse]

running street tires will be no problem to last this distance
passing closely/trading paint will get you a black flag penalty and you will be sitting on the sidelines while you cool down.
there is no grid start

I don't have the answer to the sanctioning body question

How are you going to keep track of each rider and how many laps they do? Are you using a system like they use at R.A.C.E.? If so they are pretty costly. Or are you relying on someone counting each lap and trusting that their count is right.

The tire thing will be an issue as not everyone will go out and buy street tires for this event, since the prise is only a few track days most will probably run the set they have on the bike already.

It seems like a decent idea, just wasn't really though out very well.

[Dj Eclipse]

I have been told some will... no idea for sure. Would be crazy to try it IMO.

And if you did claim it your insurance would go up anyway so what's the point.

[BBC]

A couple of years ago some friends and I did a VRRA/RACE Endurance event at Shannonville. It was tons of fun. What made it a ton of fun was the organizers were very good/experienced at running the event. They had about 20 volunteers working the event including experienced corner workers and marshals at the hot pit entrance, exit and wandering the pit. So the machines were being constantly re-teched and safety was the enforced priority. The VRRA also had very specific refueling procedures set up to avoid accidents. They also provided fire extinguishers for all teams. Trying to get fuel into a hot bike ASAP can be a dangerous procedure if not done carefully.

I'm not saying that Cayuga run sloppy track-days, but an endurance event takes a lot of organizing to pull it off. I would continue to do track days at Cayuga where I can monitor my own pace and what others are doing around me, but I wouldn't even think about participating in an event where I would be running hard with people that don't have a racing license. The difference between "hot-shoe" and race pace at a short track like Cayuga is -2 second for everybody (adrenaline). What keeps it safe is people observing good racing etiquette and riding within their limits. Hopefully everyone involved in this have fun but I won't even go to watch this.

[TBK]

Yeah, I like the idea of an edurance event at cayuga, and would like to see some more. But I have to agree with a few of the comments posted.

1) Will your tires last? Very valid point, I highly doubt any tire will last 3 hours of non stop track riding. The is a major safety issue.

2) How do you keep track of the competitors distances? For that matter how many people are allowed to run? If 20 is the max for a trackday that should be the max for this "non-race"

3) Like it or not this is a race. I think cayuga should look into the legal aspects of this prior to allowing people to do this.


If this is a first shot, why not make the "non-race" a half hour or an hour. That should limit tire issues, and rider fatigue the least. This will give the competitors a chance to gauge tire wear for future events.

[toastman]

odometers will be used
before the event there will be a three lap run that you will go around the track and then come back into the pits and take another reading for odometer calibration.

many man hours have been spent planning this event DJ

[toastman]

20 bikes is the limit

Yeah, I like the idea of an edurance event at cayuga, and would like to see some more. But I have to agree with a few of the comments posted.

1) Will your tires last? Very valid point, I highly doubt any tire will last 3 hours of non stop track riding. The is a major safety issue.

2) How do you keep track of the competitors distances? For that matter how many people are allowed to run? If 20 is the max for a trackday that should be the max for this "non-race"

3) Like it or not this is a race. I think cayuga should look into the legal aspects of this prior to allowing people to do this.


If this is a first shot, why not make the "non-race" a half hour or an hour. That should limit tire issues, and rider fatigue the least. This will give the competitors a chance to gauge tire wear for future events.

[Dj Eclipse]

odometers will be used
before the event there will be a three lap run that you will go around the track and then come back into the pits and take another reading for odometer calibration.

many man hours have been spent planning this event DJ

My bike doesn't have a speedometer or an odometer, just a tach (as do a lot of other track only bikes). What happens in this case?

[CBRJOHN]

Call me Crazy but this event is likely going to have all 3 groups on the track at the same time in a unsanctioned ""non race" Race.

Regardless of if you call it "Lapping Event" or not it will become a race.

Combining professional license holding racers with unlicensed riders new to the track when a lot of riders are tired from being on the track all day and will likely be out there on worn out tires if they're running slicks sounds like a recipe for disaster to me. I think there will be a huge speed difference among the bikes leading to risky passing.

Riders refueling hot bikes in the pits in a pressure situation from gas cans without drybreaks also sounds like a problem area.

[CBRJOHN]

My bike doesn't have a speedometer or an odometer, just a tach.

odometers will be used
before the event there will be a three lap run that you will go around the track and then come back into the pits and take another reading for odometer calibration.

many man hours have been spent planning this event

It looks like a lot of possible situations that weren't considered.