James Bay August 2008 - A journey to asphalt's end (and beyond) writeup

[de Jager]

Yup...I'm think two drivers and a small SUV of sorts.

[Vlad]

Yup...I'm think two drivers and a small SUV of sorts.

That may be good enough for Trans-taiga too. Need to think big, but there is enough time. BTW, just bought a small tent in CT today for only $15. Can't wait to see if it's any good...

[de Jager]

A friend of mine just bought the same one but it was on sale for $10 last weekend. Even if you only get a couple weekends out of it, it would have been worth the price. So long as you only use it for warmer weather. Otherwise you had better have a damn warm sleeping bag and be ready for leaks.

[zooropa_chris]

Small SUV? My Jeep Liberty gets less than 400 kms on a tank of gas. Would suck to have to carry a few gas cans to refuel an SUV. lol

[djez]

Too bad we can't rent them like people do elsewhere in the civilized world. Having two bikes or selling bandit to buy dual-sport is out of the question for me at the moment. Maybe there will be a chance before I become too old for it...

How about putting dual sport tires , updating the suspension and changing/modifythe front fairing of the bandit? it can be done? was it done before?

[de Jager]

Small SUV? My Jeep Liberty gets less than 400 kms on a tank of gas. Would suck to have to carry a few gas cans to refuel an SUV. lol

Dude...you sure something isn't wrong with your Liberty? I would have thought you could go further on one tank!

I was thinking something around that size or slightly bigger. Load two 25L Jerry Cans (one for the SUV and another for the bikes). That should be good for an extra +200km for the SUV and +100km for five bikes.

If we need more...pack more. A 3rd 25L can would be more then enough.

Really all we need is space for Fuel, one duffel bag per person (clothes, etc), tools, emerg equip.

Perhaps a pickup truck with a fabric bed cover to carry all the fuel and gear. It could also be handy just in case we need to haul one of the bikes home. Forget CAA! LOL

[Vlad]

How about putting dual sport tires , updating the suspension and changing/modifythe front fairing of the bandit? it can be done? was it done before?

Very interesting idea. However, none of those mods would or can make the beast any lighter and raising it would make it even more tip-over prone . It would be like putting roller blades on a bear, I'm afraid. I'll check banditalley to see if someone did it before, just in case.

[Vlad]

...Load two 25L Jerry Cans (one for the SUV and another for the bikes). That should be good for an extra +200km for the SUV and +100km for five bikes. ...

If there's one lesson I learned from this trip is that one needs to be very careful in estimating their fuel consumption. I tested my range twice before the trip, fully loaded and riding at a quite brisk pace. Got 5.5L/100Km both times. If I said 6L and 400Km (it's 381, but allow for some detours) that would mean a 5L extra can over my 20L tank will be more than enough.

Well, a 5L can would have left me out of gas 30-50Km before the gas station because my consumption went from 5.5L to 7L. Even with a 10L can I got to the gas station with only 2L left on my way back because I did a 22Km backtrack to call help for the guy that flipped his truck in a ditch.

At first I thought it's poor gas up there, but then I realized it cannot be that poor. They sell only regular up there, but that's what I run my Bandit on anyway, so it couldn't be that. Besides, I don't see how gas could make a whopping 45% difference in fuel consumption!

The key is, IMO, the speed. Our bikes are aerodynamic bricks, especially when loaded with luggage like that and the increased speed increases the drag and therefore fuel consumption exponentially. The pace and sustained speeds that we were riding at for hundreds of Km are literally impossible to emulate anywhere else I ever rode and that made all the difference. The fact that Bandit didn't really feel the drag and top speed and acceleration were not considerably affected does not mean anything. The weight is also secondary - it ads much less to the fuel consumption than I thought before (stability and handling are a different story).

Perhaps a pickup truck with a fabric bed cover to carry all the fuel and gear. It could also be handy just in case we need to haul one of the bikes home. Forget CAA! LOL

A pickup would be fantastic. I was thinking a bike trailer (might be able to acquire one), but that thing would bounce on those dips on JBR . Maybe renting a pickup is the way to go? It can't be that expensive, providing there are pickups for rent.

[de Jager]

If there's one lesson I learned from this trip is that one needs to be very careful in estimating their fuel consumption. I tested my range twice before the trip, fully loaded and riding at a quite brisk pace. Got 5.5L/100Km both times. If I said 6L and 400Km (it's 381, but allow for some detours) that would mean a 5L extra can over my 20L tank will be more than enough.

Well, a 5L can would have left me out of gas 30-50Km before the gas station because my consumption went from 5.5L to 7L. Even with a 10L can I got to the gas station with only 2L left on my way back because I did a 22Km backtrack to call help for the guy that flipped his truck in a ditch.

At first I thought it's poor gas up there, but then I realized it cannot be that poor. They sell only regular up there, but that's what I run my Bandit on anyway, so it couldn't be that. Besides, I don't see how gas could make a whopping 45% difference in fuel consumption!

The key is, IMO, the speed. Our bikes are aerodynamic bricks, especially when loaded with luggage like that and the increased speed increases the drag and therefore fuel consumption exponentially. The pace and sustained speeds that we were riding at for hundreds of Km are literally impossible to emulate anywhere else I ever rode and that made all the difference. The fact that Bandit didn't really feel the drag and top speed and acceleration were not considerably affected does not mean anything. The weight is also secondary - it ads much less to the fuel consumption than I thought before (stability and handling are a different story).

A pickup would be fantastic. I was thinking a bike trailer (might be able to acquire one), but that thing would bounce on those dips on JBR . Maybe renting a pickup is the way to go? It can't be that expensive, providing there are pickups for rent.

Usually when renting a pickup, you don't get unlimited km's. I'm sure if we do enough looking around we could borrow one (or talk the owner into joining us ).

I figured that weight, speed and drag would all play a huge factor to fuel consumption. I was expecting someone to reply with realistic numbers from the trip and although I expected them to be higher then my initial figures, I'm surprized your consumption went up to 7L/100km! Do you know what your attitude was? That may have also played a factor.

It will be interesting when I do Mt.Washington, fully loaded with a Monkey and high altitudes.
I usually go through 4.1L/100km normally.

[mikem]

Chase Vehicle

http://www.aluminumtrailer.com/uploa...006-732239.jpg

[de Jager]

NICE! But that won't get too far up the JBR though.

[oomis]

Are you guys talking about a chase vehicle on the Trans-Taiga?

I had heard that the first 200 kms of the Trans Taiga is well-groomed gravel, like what Vlad, Chris and I rode on, but the remainder of the road is a different animal. It sounds like it would not be easy in a 4 wheel vehicle - lots of bumping and rattling around. It wouldn't be for the faint of heart, that's for sure.

[djez]

How about sending somebody up there to leave a cache of fuel and supply at a predetermine location, can be geocoaching activity. .

I rode the bandit offroad in pensylvania and i believe it can survive dirt road,IMO i could handle the bandit much more better than the Varadero or Vstrom as comparison.

A decent tires could make a difference.

If i will make the trip i wont evenlook for a chase vehicle only thing i need is full 2 weeks vacation.

[sadrik]

A decent tires could make a difference.

It takes more than tires to make the kind of difference you'd need.

oomis discussed this during the trip. A true dual-sport or better has spoked wheels with tubed tires. Spoked wheels can survive rough terrain better and tubed tires handle dented rims better. If you dent your tubeless-tired rim too badly, it's game over. Your tire loses its seal and you're stranded.

I fear standard aluminum motorcycle wheels would not survive going over the kind of terrain you're likely to face on the Trans-Taiga. The consequences if they do fail are harsh.

[de Jager]

It takes more than tires to make the kind of difference you'd need.

oomis discussed this during the trip. A true dual-sport or better has spoked wheels with tubed tires. Spoked wheels can survive rough terrain better and tubed tires handle dented rims better. If you dent your tubeless-tired rim too badly, it's game over. Your tire loses its seal and you're stranded.

I fear standard aluminum motorcycle wheels would not survive going over the kind of terrain you're likely to face on the Trans-Taiga. The consequences if they do fail are harsh.

I would think that responsibly, the team would turn around when the road is no longer a road. Riding a dirt road or even gravel is one thing but when it gets to the point where the surface becomes wheel mashers...it's time to turn around.

[oomis]

Well, there are ways around aluminum rims. Running tubes inside tubeless tires is standard operating procedure for the adventure-touring crowd. And with the right tires, I see no reason why a prudent and experienced rider couldn't do it. V-stroms have done the trip before (on aluminum wheels), and KLRs can handle it no problem, apparently.

Doing the Trans-Taiga presents several concerns, as I see it, and on three fronts - motorcycles, camping and people.

Motorcycles:
This is not a road to be taken lightly, based on what I've read and learned about it. It's not for newbies or for the ill-prepared. Nor is this a ride for those that don't like scratches on their bikes. One would pretty much have to assume that you will go down at some point. If you care about how pretty your bike is, stay home. If you have no experience / confidence riding off-road, stay home. If you can't do your own maintenance on the road, stay home. If you don't like riding in the rain, stay home.

Camping:
This would be a camping trip, and not car camping in a provincial park. This is entirely self-sufficient camping, which means bringing and cooking food in bear country. This is an area where I've heard a lot of advice, but have no real experience. I've camped on my bike before, but never in bear country and never for this long. It means having a real tent, having a real stove, having a real sleeping bag, bear-proofing the campsite etc. etc.

People:
This would be a fun, but high-stress trip, and would have to be done by people who are like-minded and who have a high tolerance for each other.

*shrug* we should probably find another thread for this discussion, it's a bit of a highjack.

[zooropa_chris]

I have had motocross bikes, dual purpose bikes, and street bikes. I wouldn't even think of taking a street bike down that road regardless of tires, rims, etc. A dual purpose with tires that are more for dirt/gravel would be minimum. Anything less than that, and you WILL have problems. Chase car might be difficult to do. Good riders (with lots of off-road/gravel road experience) and the bikes all loaded up to handle fuel, camping, etc would be best.I would rather tow a bike that isn't so good for the road up to Radisson, then take it off the trailer and go from there. I used to have a TW200 that was great on gas, and was like an overgrown mini-bike. Fun to ride. Below is the same bike with mods for touring.

http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgur...%3Den%26sa%3DN

[de Jager]

Well this fellow did it in a Jetta wagon: http://www.jamesbayroad.com/travelog...sep/index.html

It's just a matter of knowing when to stop which would be well before the "road" actually ends near Labrador. The last 100km or so should be excluded from the trip. The responsible turn around point should be Brisay at the 582km point of the Trans-Taiga. If that is the turn around point, then we don't really need to be as concerned about serious mechanical failures or being experts in off-road riding. Going beyond Brisay would be perhaps on the foolish side. Most don't have proper dual-sport bikes to handle the conditions and nailing one of the large rocks and boulders that litter the road could easily result in not only a mash wheel but also serious suspension damage. Where is that support vehicle with the trailer again?

For me, I'm already used to carrying everything I need on my bike and can pack enough gear, equip and food for a good 5 days.

Camping in bear country is certainly a serious issue. Food and cooking gear, as well as the clothes that you cook in, need to be hoisted into tree and suspended from a sturdy branch well away from the tree trunk since bears can climb too, and certainly not near the actual campsite. I first learned all this when I was 13 camping in Algonquin Park where the bears have learned that where there are humans...there is food. Always travel in pairs with bear spray & bells. Hell...even a can of WD40 and a lighter! That will make Booboo think twice.
It would also be a good idea to setup a perimeter of bear alarms and sleep in shifts.

As for the people factor...that's just as much a concern as the bears are. Personality clashes can be more stressful then scaring off a bear! Perhaps a couple team camping trips would be in order for that one.

[Vlad]

I figured that weight, speed and drag would all play a huge factor to fuel consumption. I was expecting someone to reply with realistic numbers from the trip and although I expected them to be higher then my initial figures, I'm surprized your consumption went up to 7L/100km! Do you know what your attitude was? That may have also played a factor.

I was riding as fast as my experience allowed and accelerated hard as always. I"m now positive that it's the sustained high speed that killed my fuel economy, but don't consider 7L/100Km excessive for my bike with that kind of riding. I'm also sure that I wouldn't need that jerry can at all if I was doing the speed limit.

It will be interesting when I do Mt.Washington, fully loaded with a Monkey and high altitudes.
I usually go through 4.1L/100km normally.

Mount Washington is just too short a ride to really feel the increased fuel consumption (11 miles one way if I remember well) and has too many stops. It's also partly gravel, so your odometer reading may be way off.

[Vlad]

Doing the Trans-Taiga presents several concerns, as I see it, and on three fronts - motorcycles, camping and people.

Well said Omar. Definitely not a trip to be taken lightly.

*shrug* we should probably find another thread for this discussion, it's a bit of a highjack.

I agree. It's a brand new and very serious topic that should have it's own thread, even if we are just brainstorming about it.