So the Tased another one to death....

[SiNNeR]

I do wonder how being a manager of an ITG department for a medical software company can "skew my logic" because I have to "tow the rope". Your assumption is wrong. .

if the above is true, my appologies for the assumption,

I was not removing their liability, I was simply pointing out that no where in the two articles did it say the taser killed him. Had the guy dropped dead right away, then I could see the logic in assuming the taser did it. If the OP would have simply waited till tomorrow when the autopsy report is released, he could have made a more informed post on his opinion.

true true..

but if it is ANY thing like the RCMP bullpucks report (i suspect it will be as the have set a president with that one)

[Smokeandapancake]

20 people have died. Not that it makes it ok, but how many people have been tased in that timeframe?? I bet the 20 is way, way under 1 %. I bet there are atleast 20 people tased everyday in Canada. And how many of those 20 have died as a direct result of being tased?

A taser is not suppose to be a substitute for a gun. But i bet a taser has saved many people from getting shot.

If tasers were gone tomorrow and police went back to beatin guys down with batons, fists, feet, etc, the same group would still be whining.

A taser is another use of force option. There is definitely a spot for it on the use of force wheel.

[dropgear]

The news reports (initially) made Dziekanski sound like a enraged child rapist ... (and drunk), while in reality he had been hanging around in Immigration and baggage claim for 10 hours without any help or food or translator or official interacting with him. Most of the initial news reports heavily sourced the PR releases from the RCMP, and they read like gang movie scripts.


I just can't trust a single thing the police say about Tasers anymore. hundreds dead in the U.S. and Canada .. when is the last time someone got killed in a take-down, or with a rubber baton.

[Cas]

So show me where in the article is says the taser killed him.

Show me where in the article it says anything. That pitiful shade of reporting is something I'd expect from the Toronto Sun, not from CBC. All it says is that a 36 year old man somewhere in Norfolk was tased and died at Norfolk General. The rest is just pure speculation.

A freshman working for the local high school paper could've done a better job.

[Smokeandapancake]

The answer to that is "none".

Other than one incident I know about in St.Catherines involving a guy with a hammer, all Tazer victims are usually unarmed. Swine use Tazers for failing the attitude test, not as a substitute for lethal force. That's why they shouldn't have them.

Try murdering a "combative" stranger in your yard and see what happens to you.

The answer is "none"????? Care to point out your sources for that??

Tasers were never meant as a substitute for lethal force.

Perhaps you should learn a bit about this before posting and looking like a swinehater.

[Banger]

Being shot with a taser freaking hurt. I went through it and to be honest - it sucked.

I believe it is mandatory for all officers now to undergo taser training where they themselves are subjected to it. I could be wrong. I am not 100% with my police facts but if that's the case, I think they know what they are dishing out when they reach for that thing. They took it themselves so their assumption is that it is safe because they themselves tried it. That's a fair assumption when one is in the heat of the moment.

Maybe not the best alternative means though. Facts are out that they are not a guarantee. I stand by the police. We weren't there so we are not 100% sure of what went down.

I try not to form an opinion on subjects like this unless I was there to witness what occurred. I like to believe that they performed to their ability as service members.

Therefore I don't like to throw accusations around for all taser related incidents because we just don't know how it all played out.

[dropgear]

It's not the police i have trouble with: it's the technology itself, and more often than not, the reporting.

I don't want Tasers in my community. Much in the same way I wish that handguns didn't exist, and nuclear bombs weren't used as economic deterrent. But that's just me.

[Banger]

It's not the police i have trouble with: it's the technology itself, and more often than not, the reporting.

I don't want Tasers in my community. Much in the same way I wish that handguns didn't exist, and nuclear bombs weren't used as economic deterrent. But that's just me.

And that we all lived under a rainbow and sing ABBA songs into the night......

Sorry. I see what your saying though. Improvements and alternatives should be considered and acted upon.

[mauroACM]

Being shot with a taser freaking hurt. I went through it and to be honest - it sucked.

I believe it is mandatory for all officers now to undergo taser training where they themselves are subjected to it. I could be wrong. I am not 100% with my police facts but if that's the case, I think they know what they are dishing out when they reach for that thing. They took it themselves so their assumption is that it is safe because they themselves tried it. That's a fair assumption when one is in the heat of the moment.

Maybe not the best alternative means though. Facts are out that they are not a guarantee. I stand by the police. We weren't there so we are not 100% sure of what went down.

I try not to form an opinion on subjects like this unless I was there to witness what occurred. I like to believe that they performed to their ability as service members.

Therefore I don't like to throw accusations around for all taser related incidents because we just don't know how it all played out.

To be fair, all NEWer police officers are in pretty decent shape...as im sure you are as well! Of course it wouldn't worry me if i were in their shoes, but how do they know if the person they are tasing has some sort of health issues? im sure a bad heart + taser jolt isn't the best thing for you!

Then again, a Bullet would suck no matter what shape your in...but i do think most officers are abusing having them...

I believe Toronto Police implied that only senior officers are allowed to carry them, along with ETF.

[Smokeandapancake]

It's not the police i have trouble with: it's the technology itself, and more often than not, the reporting.

I don't want Tasers in my community. Much in the same way I wish that handguns didn't exist, and nuclear bombs weren't used as economic deterrent. But that's just me.

Whats the problem with handguns?? Atleast legally owned ones.

[FiReSTaRT]

Just because we don't live in a fairy tale, doesn't mean we shouldn't strive to live in one. In this case, the reporting was brutal so I can't form an opinion on what transpired, but the OPP is being very closemouthed about it.
The only reason there was such an outcry about tasers is because there was independent video demonstrating its improper use by the RCMP.
Each use of tasers (or guns) should involve a public inquiry by an impartial commission, owing no alegiance to any police force. What we have right now is a joke. Public servants should be exposed to public scrutiny. Why do I know how much my former professors make in a year and I don't know anything about an incident where a person got killed?

[Smokeandapancake]

To be fair, all NEWer police officers are in pretty decent shape...as im sure you are as well! Of course it wouldn't worry me if i were in their shoes, but how do they know if the person they are tasing has some sort of health issues? im sure a bad heart + taser jolt isn't the best thing for you!

Then again, a Bullet would suck no matter what shape your in...but i do think most officers are abusing having them...

I believe Toronto Police implied that only senior officers are allowed to carry them, along with ETF.

"Most officers"...............how many times a day/month/year do you think a taser is deployed in Canada???

Thats like me saying I think most bikers are squids.

Right now in Ontario, there are only sgts and tactical members carrying tasers.

[dropgear]

Whats the problem with handguns?? Atleast legally owned ones.

Oh handguns are made to kill people, with no other purpose other than to kill people (or practice for killing people at the range) .. they're small so you can hide them, carry them around all the time, just in case you need to kill someone. Rifles are different. Handguns, boy, I just wish the factories stopped making them today and forever.

[eastcoast_gsx]

I try not to form an opinion on subjects like this unless I was there to witness what occurred.

Our entire justice system is based on people forming an opinion based on evidence that is presented.

If no-one formed an opinion unless they witnessed it first hand, things would be allot different around here.

[SiNNeR]

Being shot with a taser freaking hurt. I went through it and to be honest - it sucked.

I believe it is mandatory for all officers now to undergo taser training where they themselves are subjected to it. I could be wrong. I am not 100% with my police facts but if that's the case, I think they know what they are dishing out when they reach for that thing. They took it themselves so their assumption is that it is safe because they themselves tried it. That's a fair assumption when one is in the heat of the moment.

Maybe not the best alternative means though. Facts are out that they are not a guarantee. I stand by the police. We weren't there so we are not 100% sure of what went down.

I try not to form an opinion on subjects like this unless I was there to witness what occurred. I like to believe that they performed to their ability as service members.

Therefore I don't like to throw accusations around for all taser related incidents because we just don't know how it all played out.

Smoking blintz & Banger

Here is the true Crux of the issue,

With a bullet you KNOW that if it hits its intended target, that target will more than likely die, Regardless of age / strength / sex / health.

But with voltage weapons there are SO many factors in regards to the individual that the officer in his 20 second interaction with the target cannot possibly know.

Sure they may be less than lethal IF that target is healthy,
But let’s say he has a serious heart condition, more than likely that taeseing event will not have a mutually beneficial outcome.

There are better less than lethal tools available that does not need on a “healthy” target.

Keeping this type of scenario in mind it is very easy to understand why the public do not like these tools.

So now once you take into account that the officer does NOT know how that target will be effected personally (due to what ever reason, old age, asthma, bad heart valve)
That less than lethal weapon is actually VERY risky, as you do not know what the outcome will be, you are merely hoping that person is in the shape you where in during your training.

If you do not know for certain the actions a tool of force will inflict…..
You should NOT be using that tool.

[Smokeandapancake]

Just because we don't live in a fairy tale, doesn't mean we shouldn't strive to live in one. In this case, the reporting was brutal so I can't form an opinion on what transpired, but the OPP is being very closemouthed about it.
The only reason there was such an outcry about tasers is because there was independent video demonstrating its improper use by the RCMP.
Each use of tasers (or guns) should involve a public inquiry by an impartial commission, owing no alegiance to any police force. What we have right now is a joke. Public servants should be exposed to public scrutiny. Why do I know how much my former professors make in a year and I don't know anything about an incident where a person got killed?

Check the SIU website.

[Banger]

Our entire justice system is based on people forming an opinion based on evidence that is presented.

If no-one formed an opinion unless they witnessed it first hand, things would be allot different around here.

I am not in the justice system. I am just reading about something that happened where one person is informing me how it all went down. In matters like that - I don't like to form an opinion.

[Smokeandapancake]

Oh handguns are made to kill people, with no other purpose other than to kill people (or practice for killing people at the range) .. they're small so you can hide them, carry them around all the time, just in case you need to kill someone. Rifles are different. Handguns, boy, I just wish the factories stopped making them today and forever.

So the bottom line is because they kill people??

Well way more people are killed on motorbikes every year, so how bout we outlaw them too?????? What about baseball bats??

A handgun can't kill anyone by itself. It needs a human being on the end of it. How bout we just outlaw killing people and then we wouldn't have to worry about outlawing handguns.

[Banger]

Smoking blintz & Banger

Here is the true Crux of the issue,

With a bullet you KNOW that if it hits its intended target, that target will more than likely die, Regardless of age / strength / sex / health.

But with voltage weapons there are SO many factors in regards to the individual that the officer in his 20 second interaction with the target cannot possibly know.

Sure they may be less than lethal IF that target is healthy,
But let’s say he has a serious heart condition, more than likely that taeseing event will not have a mutually beneficial outcome.

There are better less than lethal tools available that does not need on a “healthy” target.

Keeping this type of scenario in mind it is very easy to understand why the public do not like these tools.

So now once you take into account that the officer does NOT know how that target will be effected personally (due to what ever reason, old age, asthma, bad heart valve)
That less than lethal weapon is actually VERY risky, as you do not know what the outcome will be, you are merely hoping that person is in the shape you where in during your training.

If you do not know for certain the actions a tool of force will inflict…..
You should NOT be using that tool.

Why was that directed at me?

I am agreeing for the most part here. I don't think tasers are ready for widespread use. I think they should be reconfigured and alternatives enforced (not the gun lol).

I'm just speaking about this once incident though when "was it the right measure" is asked.

[Banger]

So the bottom line is because they kill people??

Well way more people are killed on motorbikes every year, so how bout we outlaw them too?????? What about baseball bats??

A handgun can't kill anyone by itself. It needs a human being on the end of it. How bout we just outlaw killing people and then we wouldn't have to worry about outlawing handguns.

Let's not bring all this up again.......