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Dude.....you're awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!Originally Posted by Thriller
Just because it's a business decision doesn't make it a right decision. In this case that business decision puts them in a negative light for me because they are not supporting those that think this is a constitutional infringement.
There is of course a possiblity that Sandy does not fully understand the consequences of this law to their business just like so many other Ontarians.
Moderator
He may well understand the consequences of the law, but also knows that the average customer he deals with doesn't. Or he may actually support the law. I don't think that anyone should be penalized for such a decision; it's his right.
If we start taking about causing people issues over such things, then how are we any better?
Morally Ambiguous (submissions welcome)
"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth." - Oscar Wilde
^^^^.....yes please don't hold anyone (business or individual) in a negative light if they don't want to sign or help the cause
they're entitled to their opinion.....and with regard to businesses....I am actually surprised so many have agreed to post the flyer.....usually businesses don't want to piss off anyone, so having "no opinion" is usually the least offensive way to go
That's a bit hypocritical.He may well understand the consequences of the law, but also knows that the average customer he deals with doesn't. Or he may actually support the law. I don't think that anyone should be penalized for such a decision; it's his right.
If we start taking about causing people issues over such things, then how are we any better
I'm not suggesting that you should protest the shop. While, It's his right not to support the petition. It's your right not to shop there, if you don't like that fact. He made a "business" decision, you can make a consumer decision. That's your right....
However, there is no point on dragging out this issue any longer.
Just keep handing out the flyers and get more people involved!
Moderator
Hypocritical? How so?
I haven't bought anything from Sandy in maybe 5-6 years, so have no vested interest in supporting his business. The basic premise is to fight this law with education, not heavy handed lobbying methods.
Morally Ambiguous (submissions welcome)
"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth." - Oscar Wilde
I think Pro6 caters to allot of LEO's for track days and services. I remember seeing quite a few at their events. Which are run very well I might add.
Maybe this is a factor? No big deal.
R e a d S l o w l y ! - Children at Play.
First off, I agree with your comment in another post that we need to do this through education. However, the problem with not "penalizing" them is that through their actions/inactions harm is being done to "me" or "us".
Everything in life is about choices, either good or bad, and those choices ALL have consequences. "Causing people issues over such things" is exactly what we're talking about here. We need to rally with "like minded" people.
To a certain extent, there is no neutral ground here, you are either for the cause, or you might as well be against. Pro6 might not want to make a political statement. The only logical reason would be that they think it will hurt their business because of the type of their patrons, or that they support it. Unfortunately their "lack" of a political statement is passive acceptance of the current state which is effectively at political statement. Sorry, can't support that although I'll chose to do it passively.
Making a simple choice between Riders Choice (who took the petition) and Pro6 (who didn't) to purchase the same/similar products and services, with the knowledge I have now, I'd take Riders Choice. I'd like to support them for supporting "us" in our quest to get this law revised.
Anyways, bigger fish to fry, let's continue to fight the good fight.
I was referring to this statement:
"I don't think that anyone should be penalized for such a decision; it's his right.
If we start taking about causing people issues over such things, then how are we any better "
It his "right" as a business owner not to openly support this legislation. However, if you don't agree with his decision. You can penalize him, by not shopping there. That's your "right", as a customer. That's far from, "heavy handed lobbying methods".
You can't expect demographic to financially support a business, that does not openly support them. Especially, when other businesses, are openly supporting the petition.
It's a two way street... As a business owner, I'm sure he understands that.
However, its not that big of an issue and we should just move on.
Last edited by camber; 06-17-2008 at 01:30 PM.
"Your either with us... or your with the terrorists." G.W.B. Nuff said.
I will not be supporting Pro6 cycle because of it's decision not to support anti-bill 203 measures.
He has the right to make a decision in his best interests and so do I.
www.durhaminline.com Inline Hockey in Durham Region
OFAH member
My civil libertarianism grows daily when confronted with the obvious injustices I witness.
Moderator
It was a pant-load when he said it too.
Morally Ambiguous (submissions welcome)
"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth." - Oscar Wilde
Moderator
I think that your read on the situation is completely wrong. It's not a "us vs. them" situation where the public is concerned. We're all potential victims; some just don't know it yet. Using buying power like a blunt instrument does nothing to support the cause and potentially hurts it, by alienating the people who we want to convert.
Morally Ambiguous (submissions welcome)
"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth." - Oscar Wilde
I hope any of you who want to punish people for their apathy, voted in the provincial election, if you're of age.
Please save some of your contempt for the politicians, who slept while the bill was passed and their constituent’s rights were surrendered.
If I had a hate on for everyone who disagreed with me I'd be very lonely, never mind those who didn't agree with me.
Can't we pull together and educate people with a reasoned argument, and accept it gracefully if they disagree; rather than try to punish them into submission.
Let's leave the bullying to the other side.
The politicians are by far the number 1 group to blame here but I cannot support a business which doesn't feel the same way I do about my rights. Especially in the motorcycle industry where riders ARE targetted and a distinct focus of this bill. You'd figure Pro6 would at least clarify their position.
Should a Vegan shop at a store that sells meat simply because boycotting a business for personal reasons is 'wrong' I'm sorry but we're free to shop where we like and I think it's very GOOD that people give business to those who's positions they agree with.
www.durhaminline.com Inline Hockey in Durham Region
OFAH member
My civil libertarianism grows daily when confronted with the obvious injustices I witness.
Using your buying power isn't a "blunt instrument" or "bullying". At worst it is capitalism.... Freemarket has been a wonderful tool for educating business to public concerns. It's a bit worrying, that you would suggest, that consumers not exercise their rights. The quickest way for a business owner to learn something, is for them to lose business/money.
It's not a "us vs. them" situation. Someone made a "business" decision and its your right as a customer, to choose, if you will continue doing business with that company or individual. No one has suggested to start up a boycott of this company or is saying anything malicious.
It's not a personal issue, it's just business.
Although, I find it a bit odd that a performance shop, would not be aware of these issues. Their decision is curious.
I think the next post, should be a dead horse getting beat.
Last edited by camber; 06-18-2008 at 02:09 AM.
Moderator
Thank you.
Morally Ambiguous (submissions welcome)
"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth." - Oscar Wilde
Possibly. But I'll support those that support us. That means spending dollars with Riders Choice (or any of the other shops that took the petition) rather than spending them with Pro6. It's a passive vote, not a blunt object. It's simply about choices, Pro6 made choices and now I'll make choices.
The only other alternative is to ignore the petition issue altogther and shop blindly. I'm not sure that accomplishes anything.
Moderator
Perhaps I'm jumping the gun on my "blunt object" statement, but I don't think so. This sort of action quickly becomes a "me too" political movement in most cases, which will do no good whatsoever. We can already see the beginnings of that, so I see the need to urge people not to do the Disney lemmings thing.
Morally Ambiguous (submissions welcome)
"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth." - Oscar Wilde
Yeah, the whole idea of your actions towards someone being altered toward someone based on a unrelated opinion leads to scary places.
If you really wanted to express your concern over pro6's opinion, or seemingly lack of interest in showing its opinion, might I suggest an e-mail, phone call, or even show up in person and ask?
Just saying, well, I'm not gonna shop there, will really not do much to "enlighten them" if they don't see or hear from you at all.
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