Drinking Charge

[videosilva]

Breath testing, general
48. (1) A police officer, readily identifiable as such, may require the driver of a motor vehicle or operator of a vessel to stop for the purpose of determining whether or not there is evidence to justify making a demand under section 254 of the Criminal Code (Canada). R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 48 (1); 2006, c. 20, s. 3 (1).

Smelling alcohol is enough to justify a demand for breath sample, upon stopping a motorist.

You ever notice when the RIDE program is going on the officer will ALWAYS stick their head in the vehicle ? There is a reason for that.

[Smokeandapancake]

You're right; you have to insist on it. A roadside test is quick, cheap and easy; a full blood test means that the cop has to drive you to the hospital and wait with you for the test and the results. That's a lot of hassle they don't want to bother with, so they don't mention it (understandably so). Even if you only used mouthwash, insist on a blood test!!

Cobalt, as to your issue, you're right: you may as well spin the wheel. When I went to trial, I had a POS counselor who (I'm sure) was ready to roll over. But by sheer chance, the trial was stalled long enough that the issuing officer had been transferred to another jurisdiction and was unable to attend. The comedy of it is that I discovered that he had booked off my original trial date just to ensure that work-related matters would not interfere with him being at my trial.

Point being, roll the dice. At best, something happens, the cop doesn't show and you get a walk. At worst, you get a bit of time to get the fine money together. But it's worth the chance.

And for heaven's sake, stop saying things like...

"So I was at the Brooklin Spring Fair the lastnight..."

"I had a couple beers at the fair on my M2 and I though [sic] I would have been alright to drive home and I though [sic] I left enough time to have the beer clear out of my system before I went home"!

"...I was on a bike since 2 other cars were infront [sic] of the cop and he decided to pull off the side of the road until I pasted him.."

Statements like that can get you convicted even if the cop's 5,000 miles away from the courthouse! You confirmed when the offense occurred. You admitted that you drank. You admitted that you were on the bike, which invokes the M2 restrictions. You admitted that you passed the cop, which means you drove. With a statement like that, even a first year law student could get you convicted without breaking a sweat.



P.S. Hey Van Marum, how's Bracebridge?

You can request/demand/insist on a blood test all you want, but there is no right to it. If given a breath demand, the best thing you can do is provide the necessary breath samples. And any lawyer will tell you exactly that.

There is nothing in the Criminal Code or HTA that allows a person to have a blood test.

As far as convicting yourself by posting on here or any other website, that's a joke. You would never see anything like it in a court.

[Golluk]

Yeah, the prosecutor would really want to have to nail you, and subpoena the information to get IP's and logs linking you to the post, and even then, could be someone else on the comp.

Unfortunately you can't really tell when your at 0 BAC, I believe .10 is when you can't overcome the affects with increased concentration, I'd assume 0.03 or 4 would be hard to know without the test.

I've had the same situation, with a G2, I was the DD, and after making sure we'd be around for a while, I had one beer. 2 hours later for a 5 min ride back, RIDE program. Everyone else in the car was toasted, and so he gave me the test. I was rather nervous, I knew I was not endangering anyone, but I was concerned I might still have trace amounts. Thankfully I blew 0.000, and the officer told me clearly afterwards that if I had blown over, it was an offense. I believe I did tell him I had one drink a few hours ago.

So yeah, get a lawyer, give yourself 2 hours per drink, or better yet, don't risk it. Found guilty or not, I'd hope you'll learn from it.

[Smokeandapancake]

Yeah, the prosecutor would really want to have to nail you, and subpoena the information to get IP's and logs linking you to the post, and even then, could be someone else on the comp.

Unfortunately you can't really tell when your at 0 BAC, I believe .10 is when you can't overcome the affects with increased concentration, I'd assume 0.03 or 4 would be hard to know without the test.

I've had the same situation, with a G2, I was the DD, and after making sure we'd be around for a while, I had one beer. 2 hours later for a 5 min ride back, RIDE program. Everyone else in the car was toasted, and so he gave me the test. I was rather nervous, I knew I was not endangering anyone, but I was concerned I might still have trace amounts. Thankfully I blew 0.000, and the officer told me clearly afterwards that if I had blown over, it was an offense. I believe I did tell him I had one drink a few hours ago.

So yeah, get a lawyer, give yourself 2 hours per drink, or better yet, don't risk it. Found guilty or not, I'd hope you'll learn from it.

As you have touched on, identity is a huge issue as far as who wrote what on the internet.

Relating BAC to impairment is near impossible, because there are too many variables that affect impairment.

[TBSS_guy]

why folks even bother having a "few" and then driving in this day and age escapes me

it's the easiest thing not to do

if you must....make it a 2 beer limit....that's it that's all

but under the M2 rules, you have no case....you're busted

sorry

The two beer limit was a good rule back when .08 was the magic number, now that it's a 3 day suspension (and subsequent raping by your insurer) for .05, that rule doesn't leave much of a buffer for breathalyzers that round up, lightweights, etc.

Not sure how accurate this is ...but it's definitely interesting to plug in some variables and see how easy it is to hit .05. www.rupissed.com

[05CobaltSS]

Well like I said.. I am going to be calling the Points or whatevet tomorrow to find out exactly what the deal is with my ticket..

BUT..

As far as I see it.. Alot of you people think my licence can be taken away for a bit or whatever the case is.... Be charged for more or whatever.. BUT.... like said before.. 12 hour suspension is not report to the ministry and therefore my licence wouldn't be taken away from me further.. PLUS I wasn't only fined not charged.. I am already quilty of doing this as the breathalyzer already did the job of proving it.. I already for the ticket I got.. I was being charged for drinking and driving I would have had a summons to court and my bike impounded... I wouldn't have gotten a ticket.. They can't charge you for more after the fact.. The cop didn't charge me with more (nor could he anywaz he told me he cant charge me for drinking and driving) since I didn't blow over the legal limit allowed (doesn't matter about the M2 or M).. The fact that I didnt blow over .08, is the reason I can't be charged for impariment.. I can only be charged for driving a vehicle while drinking when I can't on that licence.. That's it..

[Smokeandapancake]

The two beer limit was a good rule back when .08 was the magic number, now that it's a 3 day suspension (and subsequent raping by your insurer) for .05, that rule doesn't leave much of a buffer for breathalyzers that round up, lightweights, etc.

Not sure how accurate this is ...but it's definitely interesting to plug in some variables and see how easy it is to hit .05. www.rupissed.com

What is the 3 day suspension you are talking about??? For drinking and driving issues, there is a 12 hour suspension and a 90 day suspension.

[Smokeandapancake]

Well like I said.. I am going to be calling the Points or whatevet tomorrow to find out exactly what the deal is with my ticket..

BUT..

As far as I see it.. Alot of you people think my licence can be taken away for a bit or whatever the case is.... Be charged for more or whatever.. BUT.... like said before.. 12 hour suspension is not report to the ministry and therefore my licence wouldn't be taken away from me further.. PLUS I wasn't only fined not charged.. I am already quilty of doing this as the breathalyzer already did the job of proving it.. I already for the ticket I got.. I was being charged for drinking and driving I would have had a summons to court and my bike impounded... I wouldn't have gotten a ticket.. They can't charge you for more after the fact.. The cop didn't charge me with more (nor could he anywaz he told me he cant charge me for drinking and driving) since I didn't blow over the legal limit allowed (doesn't matter about the M2 or M).. The fact that I didnt blow over .08, is the reason I can't be charged for impariment.. I can only be charged for driving a vehicle while drinking when I can't on that licence.. That's it..

You are correct, however if you are convicted of the M2 over .00 charge, a few weeks later, you will likely receive something in the mail from the MTO advising your licence, or atleast the M part of it, is suspended.

The only suspension with regards to drinking and driving that the police deal with are 12 hours and 90 days.

[Rob MacLennan]

What is the 3 day suspension you are talking about??? For drinking and driving issues, there is a 12 hour suspension and a 90 day suspension.

Things have changed recently.

48. (1) A police officer, readily identifiable as such, may require the driver of a motor vehicle to stop for the purpose of determining whether or not there is evidence to justify making a demand under section 254 of the Criminal Code (Canada). 2007, c. 13, s. 10. Screening device breath test
(2) Where, upon demand of a police officer made under section 254 of the Criminal Code (Canada), the driver of a motor vehicle or the operator of a vessel provides a sample of breath which, on analysis by an approved screening device as defined in that section, registers "Warn" or "Alert" or otherwise indicates that the concentration of alcohol in the person's blood is 50 milligrams or more of alcohol in 100 millilitres of blood, the police officer may request that the person surrender his or her driver's licence. 2007, c. 13, s. 10.
Approved instrument test
(3) Where, upon demand of a police officer made under section 254 of the Criminal Code (Canada), the driver of a motor vehicle or the operator of a vessel provides a sample of breath which, on analysis by an instrument approved as suitable for the purpose of section 254 of the Criminal Code (Canada), indicates that the concentration of alcohol in his or her blood is 50 milligrams or more of alcohol in 100 millilitres of blood, a police officer may request that the person surrender his or her driver's licence. 2007, c. 13, s. 10.
Licence suspension
(4) Upon a request being made under subsection (2) or (3), the person to whom the request is made shall forthwith surrender his or her driver's licence to the police officer and, whether or not the person is unable or fails to surrender the licence to the police officer, his or her driver's licence is suspended from the time the request is made for the period of time determined under subsection (14). 2007, c. 13, s. 10.

(14) A driver's licence suspended under subsection (4) shall be suspended for,
(a) three days, in the case of a first suspension under this section;
(b) seven days, in the case of a second suspension under this section;
(c) 30 days, in the case of a third or subsequent suspension under this section. 2007, c. 13, s. 10.

This change to the HTA occurred at the same time as the racing and stunting laws came into effect.

[flyingdgn]

Try Redline. They did a good job on a few tickets for me as well as the people I recommended to them. It will cost less than the insurance increase you are going to get hit with.

As for the drinking, don't do it if you are going to ride. I had a friend that never gets drunk no matter how much alcohol he drinks that had 1 beer before he got on his bike and rode home. He said that for only a split second he was thinking of something else when the next thing he knew his bike was going on it's side. Lots of damage.

I'm not lecturing so don't get me wrong, you do what you feel is right when it comes to riding. Ride what you want, wear what you like and go where youre going. That is what riding is all about.

But I think all the guys here just don't want to see anyone get hurt on a bike. Alcohol and two wheels will eventually result in an accident.

So I hope you win this ticket.

[Smokeandapancake]

Things have changed recently.

48. (1) A police officer, readily identifiable as such, may require the driver of a motor vehicle to stop for the purpose of determining whether or not there is evidence to justify making a demand under section 254 of the Criminal Code (Canada). 2007, c. 13, s. 10. Screening device breath test
(2) Where, upon demand of a police officer made under section 254 of the Criminal Code (Canada), the driver of a motor vehicle or the operator of a vessel provides a sample of breath which, on analysis by an approved screening device as defined in that section, registers "Warn" or "Alert" or otherwise indicates that the concentration of alcohol in the person's blood is 50 milligrams or more of alcohol in 100 millilitres of blood, the police officer may request that the person surrender his or her driver's licence. 2007, c. 13, s. 10.
Approved instrument test
(3) Where, upon demand of a police officer made under section 254 of the Criminal Code (Canada), the driver of a motor vehicle or the operator of a vessel provides a sample of breath which, on analysis by an instrument approved as suitable for the purpose of section 254 of the Criminal Code (Canada), indicates that the concentration of alcohol in his or her blood is 50 milligrams or more of alcohol in 100 millilitres of blood, a police officer may request that the person surrender his or her driver's licence. 2007, c. 13, s. 10.
Licence suspension
(4) Upon a request being made under subsection (2) or (3), the person to whom the request is made shall forthwith surrender his or her driver's licence to the police officer and, whether or not the person is unable or fails to surrender the licence to the police officer, his or her driver's licence is suspended from the time the request is made for the period of time determined under subsection (14). 2007, c. 13, s. 10.

(14) A driver's licence suspended under subsection (4) shall be suspended for,
(a) three days, in the case of a first suspension under this section;
(b) seven days, in the case of a second suspension under this section;
(c) 30 days, in the case of a third or subsequent suspension under this section. 2007, c. 13, s. 10.

This change to the HTA occurred at the same time as the racing and stunting laws came into effect.

This has not come into effect yet, as far as I understand.

[Rob MacLennan]

This has not come into effect yet, as far as I understand.

You may be correct. My understanding was that this was to come into force at the same time the racing and stunting laws did, but I can find no confirmation as to the date that it comes into force.

[Smokeandapancake]

You may be correct. My understanding was that this was to come into force at the same time the racing and stunting laws did, but I can find no confirmation as to the date that it comes into force.

Latest I have heard is Oct/Nov this year.

Criminal code 253 offences change around 02July this year.

[verno317]

I heard Nov as well

[eastcoast_gsx]

What happened to the physical sobriety test that used to be performed at roadside?

IMO, you should have to fail one of these before they can demmand a breathtest.

[Smokeandapancake]

What happened to the physical sobriety test that used to be performed at roadside?

IMO, you should have to fail one of these before they can demmand a breathtest.

There is nothing that compels a person (at this point in time) to submit to road side physical tests.

Remember, there are 2 different charges. Over the legal limit, and impaired driving.

[eastcoast_gsx]

There is nothing that compels a person (at this point in time) to submit to road side physical tests.

Remember, there are 2 different charges. Over the legal limit, and impaired driving.

What do you mean? You have to submit to test if one is requested, or face fine and punishment that is just as bad as failing a test, no?

I simply hate it when things like machines can simply spit out a ****ing number that then determines your fate...

I hardly even drink anymore, but I still feel the laws are getting out to lunch with this topic.

[mat2312]

http://www.rupissed.com/


wow I used this and i'm really surprised how little alcohol it takes to be impaired.


For my height/weight, I would blow the legal limit .08 for having 5 cans of beer in 4 hours....

[nfq]

5 beers in 2 hours and i'd be at 0.075 according to that site.

you're right, surprisingly little amount of alcohol to get you there....

[mat2312]

I don't know how accurate that site is, but that's kinda scary. I've always thought if you had a beer an hour you'd be alright. It kinda bothers me that I could have been driving home legally intoxicated (I know I wasn't a danger on the road) but that's besides the point.