ABUSE of Bill 203

[mat2312]

I lost a charter application in that court. I really don't want to get into the details because at this point I'm just trying to put the whole mess behind me.

In most cases, if a charter application fails, the trail proceeds right after it. I really do hope their application will be granted, but I wouldn't hold my breath for it, especially not in that court.

But it is possible your charter application is completely different than this one. For instance if yours was an 11b, there is no 'set' time limit, it could vary from justice to justice. 203 violates the charter directly and clearly.

[BlueVFR]

Send this to Mr. FUNtino and ask how he would explain this!!

I almost lost TWO bikes yesterday.

I wanted to post what happened here, I am scared now to think how easily this can happen to anyone of us.

A friend and I were riding up Hurontario where there are 2 lanes going each direction. I was riding my ducati, he was a safe distance behind me riding my suzuki. We were travelling at 50km/hr in a 50 zone.

While driving in the left lane, the car in front of me signaled to turn left and slowed down. There is no turn lane here so they stop in the lane and wait for a chance to turn. I slowed, carefully checked to my right, signaled right and changed into the right lane. The right lane was wide open, no cars coming from behind us.

About 5 or 6 seconds later, i checked over my shoulder, signaled left and was back riding in the same lane I started in. My friend did the same thing about 2-3 car lengths behind me. We never went over the speed limit.

An OPP lit us up and when my friend pulled over (he was right in front of the cop) but the car stayed on me. I pulled over as well.

The cop got out of the car showing obvious fury as he demanded our paperwork, and said right away that we would be charged with weaving in and out of traffic, which is a stunting charge. I tried to ask why a normal safe lane change is considered stunting, and he snapped back and and said he was asking the questions, not me.

He said that I was wrong to change lanes, even safely. He said I HAD to sit still and wait behind the car that was turning, and stay in my own lane.

Karma showed up for us just in time, an important call came over the radio and he yelled "You're lucky!", jumped in his car and peeled away, kicking up dirt and dust all around us.

THANK GOODNESS! imagine losing two bikes at once.

There must be some guidelines to what is considered weaving in and out. i thought it would be more than 2 lane changes, and a lot closer together than i did them.

Also I wonder, can a cop pull one bike over, and then if your friend stops to wait for you, demand his information too? That doesn't seem right to me.

I wanted to throw this story up here. I ride slowly and safely all the time (probably like a grandpa on a bike) and didn't think this could happen to me.

Do you think they target more expensive bikes as a way to grab revenue. Why did he go straight for the ducati when I was the farther of us both? and we both did the same thing.

BE CAREFUL!
Peace.

[Snobike Mike]

Send this to Mr. FUNtino and ask how he would explain this!!

He would say that the witnesses are grossly inflaming their stories, spout off some slanted statistics, and then race off to catch some street racer somewhere.

[jarekn]

Ahh not sure how many more times we gonna go over this, the law is BS and Fantion had no clue what he is talking about! This one more time shows you that anyone pulling over even if they have done nothing wrong can and in most cases will get screwed! So either sell your bike or take the risk and do what it takes to not be in that situation...

I almost lost TWO bikes yesterday.

I wanted to post what happened here, I am scared now to think how easily this can happen to anyone of us.

A friend and I were riding up Hurontario where there are 2 lanes going each direction. I was riding my ducati, he was a safe distance behind me riding my suzuki. We were travelling at 50km/hr in a 50 zone.

While driving in the left lane, the car in front of me signaled to turn left and slowed down. There is no turn lane here so they stop in the lane and wait for a chance to turn. I slowed, carefully checked to my right, signaled right and changed into the right lane. The right lane was wide open, no cars coming from behind us.

About 5 or 6 seconds later, i checked over my shoulder, signaled left and was back riding in the same lane I started in. My friend did the same thing about 2-3 car lengths behind me. We never went over the speed limit.

An OPP lit us up and when my friend pulled over (he was right in front of the cop) but the car stayed on me. I pulled over as well.

The cop got out of the car showing obvious fury as he demanded our paperwork, and said right away that we would be charged with weaving in and out of traffic, which is a stunting charge. I tried to ask why a normal safe lane change is considered stunting, and he snapped back and and said he was asking the questions, not me.

He said that I was wrong to change lanes, even safely. He said I HAD to sit still and wait behind the car that was turning, and stay in my own lane.

Karma showed up for us just in time, an important call came over the radio and he yelled "You're lucky!", jumped in his car and peeled away, kicking up dirt and dust all around us.

THANK GOODNESS! imagine losing two bikes at once.

There must be some guidelines to what is considered weaving in and out. i thought it would be more than 2 lane changes, and a lot closer together than i did them.

Also I wonder, can a cop pull one bike over, and then if your friend stops to wait for you, demand his information too? That doesn't seem right to me.

I wanted to throw this story up here. I ride slowly and safely all the time (probably like a grandpa on a bike) and didn't think this could happen to me.

Do you think they target more expensive bikes as a way to grab revenue. Why did he go straight for the ducati when I was the farther of us both? and we both did the same thing.

BE CAREFUL!
Peace.

[jarekn]

Have you missed something??? The bikes would still have been towed and he'd still have to pay no matter what! THAT IS COMPLETE BS!

There is no way that if charges had been laid you would have been found guilty. As you indicated you and your friend made a safe lane change but encountered a cop who either hates motorcyclists or had a bad case of hemmaroids or both.

Always get the cop's badge number or licence plate of the car and have ur cell phone on record. Or get a micro cassette recorder. You will be amazed how a Judge or Crown will react when all the facts come out especially verbal abuse by a police officer.

Ride safe.

[jarekn]

I am 100% with you my friend If more bikers were to follow the lead they'd have no ****ing choice but to change the stupid rules!

I stopped pulling over for cops three years ago! I don't care what I've done, or even when I know I haven't done anything, I do not stop for police...
...And your story is a good example of the reason why I made that decision three years ago.

[jarekn]

I don't think you should answer that question... it could be self incriminating and we all know that the BIG BROTHER is watching...

I can tell you that I know many people who this worked great for... Just forgot their names... I will also tell you that I know one who it didn't work out for and he was being locked up for the weekends for 3 months... The chopper got him... he thought he lost them.... ended up going home... a bit later knock... knock... I still think he could have fought it better but w/e...

How many many times have you "not stopped" though?

[Smokeandapancake]

Not necessarily the OPP, but absolutely the OP should go in and speak with a supervisor at whatever detachment or service polices that area, about how this was handled.

[Smokeandapancake]

I am 100% with you my friend If more bikers were to follow the lead they'd have no ****ing choice but to change the stupid rules!

Yes, they are watching...in fact they are surrounding your studio right now!!!!

[Pegassus]

-
When you have a fascist, shameless government like the one we have now all bets are off and I will defend myself from their oppression. I also do not stop for cops, I have gotten away twice and yes on a 350cc dual-sport and as long as I know they had not read my plates I will take off. I can go on top of sidewalks and across streams, that's the advantage of the dual-sport.

[TBSS_guy]

Really? When I just got caught 103 in a 60 zone last week (http://www.gtamotorcycle.com/vbforum...ad.php?t=60768) the cop had been explaining to me that I was only 7kph away from the dreaded 203 etc, and told me that the impound charge was $300/day for autos, and $250/day for bikes (+towing of course).

So which is it? $500 flat rate? or $250/300/day?

My entire 7 days only cost $300 (in GTA).
...but apparently I got off easy compared to many others.

You're right about the seven day impoundment plus licence suspension. But there is the civil recourse which would is an action in Superior Court of Justice for damages as well as an Order that the licence suspension be removed from your driving record.

I asked about that, I was told that chances are the suspension would be off my record (3yrs) before the case would be won/settled and the court order could be carried out.

[jarekn]

I am far away from the studio And any time I go there I take my car as taking the bike on that beautiful stretch of 400 is way too hard on me... God I remember and miss the good old days when we used to 'FLY' around there Not to mention the 404 and 407 which was so perfect for late night runs... But hay just like everything else our government managed to screw that one up for us too

I wonder if they could charge me with violation of 203 for spinning on my chair too fast... you know cause that too is dangerous... I could hit myself or someone else...

Yes, they are watching...in fact they are surrounding your studio right now!!!!

[Gnu]

Not necessarily the OPP, but absolutely the OP should go in and speak with a supervisor at whatever detachment or service polices that area, about how this was handled.

I find it hard to believe that would accomplish anything. Do you think the supervisor is going to go after this officer and punish him? LOL... highly doubtful ...

[Rob MacLennan]

I find it hard to believe that would accomplish anything. Do you think the supervisor is going to go after this officer and punish him? LOL... highly doubtful ...

It's better than doing nothing at all. There are no tickets or impound to show the actions of the officer, so I doubt that a formal complaint submission would go anywhere.

Passing a vehicle to the right is not a charge under Section 172. Weaving might be construed as such, but under some very specific conditions. Passing unnecessarily closely is also a 172 violation.

[DaFrEnCh-TiCkLeR]

I find it hard to believe that would accomplish anything. Do you think the supervisor is going to go after this officer and punish him? LOL... highly doubtful ...

What if that guy's banging the supervisors wife and he just cant wait for that one crack to blow his ***** out ?

They're human dude. If the op and is friend are polite and well put together the guy's going to listen. They dont need more bad publicity.

That taking into consideration that they where in fact going 50 and the hole bit.

[bear22099]

I find it hard to believe that would accomplish anything. Do you think the supervisor is going to go after this officer and punish him? LOL... highly doubtful ...

But posting here will fix it right up. I have only heard one side of the story. Everyone knows there are three sides to it. And the OP was not charged, did not have his bikes impounded, and did not get left on the side of the road. What exactly is the problem here? That he MAY have been? He MAY very well have been shot by the police as well, or he MAY have been run down by a drunk bus driver, but he wasn't. Just because the possibility exists does not mean it will happen. But then again, you must all buy lottery tickets, since you MAY win the big one.

[Smokeandapancake]

I find it hard to believe that would accomplish anything. Do you think the supervisor is going to go after this officer and punish him? LOL... highly doubtful ...

Ok well don't do anything at all about it. But quit bitching and whining about it then.

If your not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.

Same idea as if you don't vote, then keep your mouth shut as far as the government goes.

Complaints HAVE to be investigated and if you are not happy with the outcome, you can take it further.

[AdRath]

Complaints HAVE to be investigated and if you are not happy with the outcome, you can take it further.

I agree
Even though nothing will be done at least file a complaint for the next poor sucker that gets officer Richard Cranium. At least if a complaint gets filed it goes to show a pattern if enough people speak up then action will be taken.

[vntg_ducati]

Well because of the way he sped off, we didn't get his name, badge number or even his plates.

Do I really want to go into the police station, tell them I almost got a ticket for stunting, but got off lucky? Chances are they would say "Thanks for coming in, this makes it a lot easier for us!" , laugh at me and charge me.

You can be charged with 203 after the fact, so I'm pretty sure they could still charge me and impound the bike.

At that point I could very well end up back where I started when i got pulled over. His word against mine.

[Rob MacLennan]

Well because of the way he sped off, we didn't get his name, badge number or even his plates.

Do I really want to go into the police station, tell them I almost got a ticket for stunting, but got off lucky? Chances are they would say "Thanks for coming in, this makes it a lot easier for us!" , laugh at me and charge me.

You can be charged with 203 after the fact, so I'm pretty sure they could still charge me and impound the bike.

At that point I could very well end up back where I started when i got pulled over. His word against mine.

If you got the cruiser number, then that plus time and date would be enough to tell which officer was involved.

OPP have shown precedent for NOT seizing vehicles or suspending licenses on at least two previous occasions. To do so with a civilian, after not doing so with officers, would show an unequal application of law. I'd love to see what a civil attorney would do with that.