What to do when you want to fight your ticket in court (new)

[zooropa_chris]

I did request it on time and never received it. Today I had three choices, plea guilty, plea not guilty, ask for adjounment to get disclosure. The cop didn't recognize me, and he said he sent disclosure to another affilate (don't remember who, not X-Copper but another one, wish I could remember who....it was a popular one though).

After I got an adjournment, the cop quietly told me he is mistaken that he sent my disclosure out.

[Grimmy]

Your disclosure gets sent from the Cop to the Crown, and then to you. It is never directly provided from the cop to you in any way.

Wait for your disclosure to show up, and see what it says. Then you can be educated and informed as to what you are facing, and then can make an informed decision.

If your disclosure again does not show up by the time you show up in court, make that known, and that you cannot prepare a defense without the contents of the disclosure.

If enough time has passed since the date of the offense, and the effective date of a trial, you can apply for an 11b charter motion for dismissal.

[FiReSTaRT]

If you sent your request for disclosure and never received it, your REAL options would have been:
a) The case gets thrown out
b) It gets adjourned

[FiReSTaRT]

Here's something already posted in one of my threads, but highly relevant here, when it comes to representing a friend/relative/neighbor:

30. (1) Subject to subsections (2) and (3), the following may, without a licence, provide
legal services in Ontario that a licensee who holds a Class P1 licence is authorized to provide:

Acting for family, friend or neighbour
5. An individual,
i. whose profession or occupation is not and does not include the provision
of legal services or the practice of law,
ii. who provides the legal services only occasionally,
iii. who provides the legal services only for and on behalf of a related person,
within the meaning of the Income Tax Act (Canada), a friend or a
neighbour, and
iv. who does not expect and does not receive any compensation, including a
fee, gain or reward, direct or indirect, for the provision of the legal
services.

This is from Law Society Act, By-law #4, Part 5, Section 30, sub 5 (pg 24). Here's a download link: http://www.lsuc.on.ca/media/bylaw4.pdf (My thanks go out to ticketcombat) His advice is to have this printed and in your file folder when you go out in court to represent someone in case one of our undertrained JP's forgets about the niceties of the law.

[Hirosue]

Thanks everyone for your time and effort to put this fourm up to help us better understand how to fight a ticket. Im new to this fourm please try not to flame me.

My situation is that i got two different ticket yesterday night (the weather was cold and moist)
a)one for disobey stop- fail to stop
b) Fail to surrender permit for motor vehicle
The ticket was issued by one officer but had another officer with him. Does this count as multi-officer speed trap?

From what the cop had told me, that i can go to the court with the motor permit to drop the charges for ticket (b). Is this true? Since this is my first time getting a ticket. I was quite panic and did not find the motor permits in time. When I go to the court do I file a trail for both the ticket or sperate?

Is there a low chance to fight a rolling stop? Can i file this to trail and say i did make a complete stop, however due to the cold and slippery road my car was still moving alittle and the cop might have seen me as not doing a complete stop?

Thanks in advance

[Brian P]

If you say your "car was still moving a little" then you are admitting guilt. Don't do that. If you actually did not stop (there is no such thing as a "rolling stop" - you either stopped, or you didn't!) then you are guilty of the offense. (Lesson: come to a COMPLETE stop in future to avoid this happening again!) In that situation, your only option is to plead not guilty, follow the procedures explained in this thread, and hope the legal system fails in some way (disclosure doesn't show up, officer doesn't show up in court, delays go beyond reasonable, etc). If you DID stop, but the cop didn't see it, then you need to shoot holes in his explanation in some way. (Visual obstructions? How far was the cop away from you? Did he have continuous visual contact from the time of the offence until you were pulled over? etc.)

[Rob MacLennan]

Additionally if you didn't stop at the thick white line, but rather pulled slightly around the corner before coming to a stop so that you could see further down the street that you wanted to turn onto, you are also guilty of failing to stop. You must stop at the indicated point and THEN move forward to a better vantage point.

[Hirosue]

If you say your "car was still moving a little" then you are admitting guilt. Don't do that. If you actually did not stop (there is no such thing as a "rolling stop" - you either stopped, or you didn't!) then you are guilty of the offense. (Lesson: come to a COMPLETE stop in future to avoid this happening again!) In that situation, your only option is to plead not guilty, follow the procedures explained in this thread, and hope the legal system fails in some way (disclosure doesn't show up, officer doesn't show up in court, delays go beyond reasonable, etc). If you DID stop, but the cop didn't see it, then you need to shoot holes in his explanation in some way. (Visual obstructions? How far was the cop away from you? Did he have continuous visual contact from the time of the offence until you were pulled over? etc.)

Thanx for your advice and you did remind me that there was an obstacle (a house) blocking the view of the car just before the white line. Can i argue that i did make a complete stop but the house blocked the complete view of my car when i make a early complete stop?

[Rob MacLennan]

You don't have to argue that you made the stop. You simply have to call the officer's testimony into question. Remember that.

[Brian P]

Was the officer's line of sight to the officially-recognized stop location (the thick stop line) blocked by the house or other obstructions? If this is the case, you may wish to go to the location and take some pictures showing how this could have happened. If you haven't gone to traffic court before, you should also go to the court on a random day just to watch the proceedings - and watch how people either incriminate themselves, or ask the wrong questions, or don't ask the right questions, and plan your line of questioning from there. You should also take whatever evidence you have and show it to the prosecutor before the trial date ... sometimes they'll drop the charges right then and there if they see that they don't have a case.

And, if they DO have a case ... it means you did a "rolling stop" in a location where there was a blind spot (the house) obstructing your view of oncoming cross traffic ... which is not a good thing to be doing.

[toysareforboys]

Sweet. Great thread. I just sent the disclosure request by fax (with confirmation).

My main line of defense will be that:

a) My plate WAS plainly visible at all times as indicated by THESE photographs taken at the scene, as well as THESE taken under better lighting as soon as possible after the offence.
b) The officer made an error in the charge because the speed at which I was traveling and the lean angle of the motorcycle made it difficult for him to read my plate as I passed his parked, unmarked car, not through any failure of equipment as the charge indicates.

-Jamie M.

[tanbusa]

Has anyone had dealings with the courts in Parry Sound pertaining to speeding tickets ?Are they open to negotiations as far as making a donation ,say larger than the fine to a court approved or appointed charity within the minicipality for a reduction in points.
Some places will make this arrangement and I was curious if Parry Sound was one.
Thanks all.

[FiReSTaRT]

Has anyone had dealings with the courts in Parry Sound pertaining to speeding tickets ?Are they open to negotiations as far as making a donation ,say larger than the fine to a court approved or appointed charity within the minicipality for a reduction in points.
Some places will make this arrangement and I was curious if Parry Sound was one.
Thanks all.

AFIK, no place in Ontario would be willing to do that. You from the US?

[robertojiang]

Hi All,

I got into an accident on my car back in June where I ran an all way stop sign and hit another car. The cops were called to scene at a later point. My current situation is... I got a ticket for "Fail to Stop, Disobey Stop Sign" under HTA 136(1)(a). I have taken a picture at the scene of the accident as soon as I was able to under the same gloomy conditions on the day of the accident and I have noticed that the all way stop sign on the left side is completely covered by a tree, the right side is visible. The line on the ground is barely visible until you are about 5 metres away.

Please let me know how I can go abouts in fighting the ticket. I have currently submitted a request for disclosure since July and have not yet received a reply. I will be calling the Burnhamthorpe office on Monday to ask if they have received the disclosure. If not, I will send another one in.


Thanks!

[robertojiang]

Any help with this one?

Hi All,

I got into an accident on my car back in June where I ran an all way stop sign and hit another car. The cops were called to scene at a later point. My current situation is... I got a ticket for "Fail to Stop, Disobey Stop Sign" under HTA 136(1)(a). I have taken a picture at the scene of the accident as soon as I was able to under the same gloomy conditions on the day of the accident and I have noticed that the all way stop sign on the left side is completely covered by a tree, the right side is visible. The line on the ground is barely visible until you are about 5 metres away.

Please let me know how I can go abouts in fighting the ticket. I have currently submitted a request for disclosure since July and have not yet received a reply. I will be calling the Burnhamthorpe office on Monday to ask if they have received the disclosure. If not, I will send another one in.


Thanks!

[cbranje]

What do you mean, "with confirmation"?

Carmen

Sweet. Great thread. I just sent the disclosure request by fax (with confirmation).

My main line of defense will be that:

a) My plate WAS plainly visible at all times as indicated by THESE photographs taken at the scene, as well as THESE taken under better lighting as soon as possible after the offence.
b) The officer made an error in the charge because the speed at which I was traveling and the lean angle of the motorcycle made it difficult for him to read my plate as I passed his parked, unmarked car, not through any failure of equipment as the charge indicates.

-Jamie M.

[Rob MacLennan]

What do you mean, "with confirmation"?

Carmen

Presumably the confirmation slip, from the fax machine.

[toysareforboys]

Presumably the confirmation slip, from the fax machine.

That is correct

-Jamie M.