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Thats a load of spyew.... They are loosing money because they are paying WAAY to much for the drivers, maintenance turds and the unions are bleeding the entire system DRY!!!!! Toronto should get a back-bone and declare the TTC bankrupt and close the waste of tax payers dollars down for an ENTIRE DAY. The following day Toronto shoudl start a privately run system with no-union loosers
Wtf? Why should the province and federal government have to fund your craptastic city's transit system? You guys really are morons. I bet your mayor has a really nice office though, spending all that money on renos and furniture.Originally Posted by dan_reinfoma
All unions should be banned. Get paid a fair wage, and do your job properly. If you don't like it, get a new job.
First off, I am not a moron. Lets not make this topic a personal attack anyone. I knew someone would bring up the operators pay. Let me say that yes there are some operators in the 100k club. However they are the exception rather than the rule. Do you have any idea how many hours we have to work to make the kind of money many of you think we get paid? I for one have never come close the the 100k mark.
The provincial and federal goverments need to fund the system they need to invest in its infrastructure, not doing so has resulted in a crumbling system and poor service all around. No public sector will ever take over the TTC. There are only 2 or 3 routes that generate profit. The rest are there for the public.
As for closing the TTC down for the day...it happened and the city was in chaos. Also as far the unions been banned, I would like to see the day your company says that since they didnt make as much money as they had hoped for, they have decided to lower every employees pay effective immediatley.
Then I would like you to tell me how bad unions are.
While unions are not perfect, they are needed.
True. Except in cities where legislation (200% tax on cars) or extremely high population per capita (Hong KOng) supports transit, there is no way the TTC or any public transit system in North American that can be COMPLETELY privatized. The ideal is to have the government fund about 30% of the TTC's needs until it becomes self sustainable. It will become self sustainable when the TTC builds enough capacity to funnel more people more efficiently into those 2~3 money making routes. Hong Kong works like this and 20 years after they opened the first subway, the transit authority became a public company. Dan, you are right.
While the above argument is out of the scope of a TTC operational staff, public opinion tends to side against the TTC because unions seem to be making demands that are making matters worse.
I think what people have beef with is that people think TTC staff unions have too much power. You can argue whether an operator deserves the $55,000 or not. But just because the TTC paid a high wage in the past when times were good, they cannot lower it when times are tough.
A good example of this is the United States where someone without post secondary education can get $85,000 working on the assembly line. Even when GM, Ford and Chrysler were bleeding $1 billion cash a month from losses, the unions are COMPLETELY unwilling to lower wages/benefits. This will only end when GM and Ford declare bankruptcy and the Unions will think "damn...why did we take such a hard line? now we don't even have jobs."
*CONCLUSION*
Though the TTC won't come to that, the idea is the same. Just because some TTC staff became comfortable with a wage that is $30,000 above the average Canadian yearly income ($25,000), that doesn't mean they deserve that pay till the day they die. If the TTC or the economy is hurting, management should have the option of cutting costs. This is just basic market/economic conditions.
Unions are fighting these conditions. They say that no matter how poorly the economy is doing, no matter how few people take the transit, the TTC must continue paying everyone $55,000 or whatever wages. And THAT is wrong.
This reasoning is pretty unbiased.
That JUST happened to my wife!!! They trimmed everyones salary by 5K.. And you know what??? Because she has an education, insight and some guts, She quit the next day and got a higher paying job.. Educated people can do that... Union emplyees can't..
In such a situation, the union would continue to drive every last drop of blood out of that company and have its doors closed in no time (bankruptcy).. Unions should be shut down and ELIMINATED all together. They are for the weak, un-motivated and only hold the economy back.. If you cant take care of yourself,,, go live in a communist state
Blackenese makes some good points and I agree with him on some of his points, he is also able to make his points in a non attacking manner.
The same cannot be said about speedways points or the manner in which he brings them across.
Speedway, you are way off base in thinking that union employees are not educated. Furthermore, that comment shows just how out of touch with reality you are. As far as the rest of your comments they are so ridiculous, they do not warrant any replies. It seems obvious that you harbour some deep resentment towards unions and whatever the reason is, I dont really care. I would however ask that you do not attack me personally, as I have not done so to you. I am not uneducated, weak or unmotivated and I have no interest is living elsewhere.
I get the feeling there is alot of issues being hidden between all sides (public, city, ttc workers). My personal experience with unions is not great, but not to horrible. And there certianly is alot that goes on behind the scene.
The bus drivers in hamilton seem to be alright, I've yet to see one do anything stupid.
Good for your Wife.. however, over-generalize much?
I've got a number of years of post-secondary education at both the college and university level. Hardly an unedumucated dipstick slacker pulling close to 6 figures on an assembly line - i'm a professional. I'm also unionized. Should i mention that my field hasn't seen more than a 2% annum raise in 20 years, and most years, nothing? I don't pull 6 figures. After taxes, some weeks i'm lucky to see enough net left over after bills to be able to eat. Some lot of benefit that OPSEU, that uber-strong Union, is doing for me eh? Oh, and due to the specialized nature of my position, i can hardly move on.. i'm locked in without further education. That is just the way it is in my particular field. Without the union, working conditions would be much, much worse, with everyone being 'casual', with no benefits, and categorized as 'part time', working for a much lower sub-standard and unsustainable living wage, yet working 32 to 36 hrs? Employees become 'throw-away'. Does that sound fair to you?
Or perhaps you'd like to slur my 'un-educated', and now retired mother, who worked 35 years in the Health Sciences sector with a Masters of Science... she never pulled down more than $40k a year - as a CUPE member.
Get a grip, dude. I hate union slackers just as much as the next man, but there are plenty of hard working people out there who work damn hard for their money, and just happen to fall under the umbrella of a union for their own collective protection.
Last edited by Bandit Bill; 03-28-2008 at 11:54 PM.
ttc has its issues, a lot of them, the union is part of the issue, and management has its own fair share of problems too. We are still recovering from a lot a bad decisions made years ago and will continue to do so until management and the union grow some balls and try to solve the issues and stop being so adversarial to each other, but that would make too much sense! Unions serve a role but sometimes they just go too far a line worker making 85000 at a gm assembly plant is a perfect example, so is 55000 for a person sitting in a booth to collect tickets\ tokens and fares. Yet without unions there would be no such thing as a minimum wage, or it would be much much lower and we would all be working in sweatshops for barely enough to put food on our tables, dont beleive me, go see what happened to every country thats gone to a true free market economy with no wage or price controls.
The change in transfer payments from federal and provincial governments has screwed municipalities everywhere and until that problem is solved , ttc will always have money issues.. this is just a fact of life. the fact they made a big deal about getting new buses a few years back is a good example of this if you have any doubts. the last wildcat strike had little to do with money and a lot to do with safety If there were more accountability for the piss poor decisions made in the past and making sure they don't make similar mistakes and make poor political and service decisions who knows ttc could be profitable one day but i'm not holding my breath! I think that the province should deem ttc an essential service and put a freeze on wage increases until it is a little more in line with what is reasonable, at that point we should also have a transit system that works and has stable funding that is the real problem, every company is going to have its a- holes but when we get poor service its all we see.
Ok , Maybe i got carried away..... I hate unions .....but thats only because they waste all of our money and drive out north american jobs.. They do have some hot chicks working for them.. There was this one friggin H_O_T brunette that worked at chrysler but i digress.....
This whole "Throw-away" thing is a persons own-becoming.. Kinda like in the middle ages where a 70 year old couldnt even bring up a couldren of water... Yes, you become disposable.... Learn another task or make yourself usefulll,, OR SAVE and pay for your own problems...
When i get to be a dinosour, I will have a house, a few cars, a number of bikes and mabye even some bitches (that a certainty).... But i will have earned it my self and not relied on anyone else..
Unions only benefit unions.. they are just lucky to have people paying INTO the unions that dont know better!!!!!
I wish i was "a union"
Send me your money..
I guess you guys think 55000 a year is good money. Well have some kids and get a mortgage and see where how far that takes you. I work for the government; i hear all my buddies talking like you guys are here. "you have a easy job" "24 sick days a year and 5 weeks vacation" Well; sounds to me like some people are envious. Guys' TTC is always hiring. If you want in just apply. Dan; trust me; we know what unions mean to us. I wouldn't go into great detail here because we are labeled "lazy govt workers". And for the people who actually work and i stress work for these companies know the good old days are gone. Unfortunately we have our fair share of clowns working for us; but because they work for the govt' we are all labeled and are under the scope!! But i am still upset with the hotdogging ttc drivers; that was the real topic here; wasn't it??
I am glad you understand. I also wonder how this thread became anti union. I also agree with your point about the hotdogging bus drivers. I have seen some of the aggressive driving myself.
it sounds like you need more driver training, you said the lane was
blocked stalled car. you should have made your lane change sooner,
and why would you cut in front of a bus? size matters on the street.
bud in front of a car next time, and keep a safe disdance from buses.
You said you had your bliker on and was in both lanes. when the car
ahead of you moved did you move or sit there for a second?
I would of pushed you to ... brush up on your driving skills and
don't put your self in that position next time.
The exact same thing happened to my brother! He was at a red light in the middle lane and decided to make a left hand turn at the next lights. He had plenty of room to change lanes because the bus was stopped a few feet back. So he turned on his signal and started to change lanes. Just as he was changing lanes the bus driver stepped on the gas and smashed in his door with the bus! When the cops arrived they determined that because of where my brother’s car was at the time of the collision he was at fault. Apparently this sort of thing is happening often! Beware of bus drivers... they think they own the road!
YZFoxxy
keep your heels, head, and standards high
If i would work 24/h a day 365 days a year then i would still not make 100,000$. Why? Because i am not unionized and am based on a salary without overtime. So.... that being said i dont even make 54,000$ altough i wish i would sit on my rear all day reading a book and being grumpy to all the ttc riders. I cant believe it! Those ticket booth guys should be getting 8,75$ an hour, minimum wage for minimum work.
A TEACHER does not make 54,000 even though they actually had to go to school for it!
Some fare collectors make more than $100k with overtime so I'm guessing the $50k is around the starting point. It's good money either way just want to know how these guys become fare collectors?
They were great collectors but upon review were downgraded!
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