question for the law experts in regards to cameras

[murf]

Since this bill 203 bit is getting people nervous about getting screwed for impound fees etc without being proven guilty, dirty cops etc. Say you have an onboard camera that shows you did not exceed 50, or pull a wheelie and the cop pulls you over and says that you did but notices the camera. Could he demand to see the footage on the spot? What would likely happen?
Thanks

[rukus]

he would require a warrant no?

[vkhamphi]

I'm no lawyer or law expert but I don't see why the cop would have a right to view or confiscate the camera during a traffic stop. There might be a law against viewing the LCD screen while moving (like the on-board DVD players in cars).

[Brian P]

I have the same question for the same reason. I'm no lawyer either, but I don't think it would require a warrant for the police officer to seize either the camera or the tape / memory card. (If they pulled you over, they already have "probable cause", or something like that.) What if I want to record the traffic stop? Can't play back and record at the same time.

One interesting possibility is if they do seize the bike and your license and the camera, and the footage shows you did nothing wrong. The way the legislation is written, the only way the vehicle can be released before the 7 day period is up is if the vehicle was stolen. There's NO provision in there for the police to say "Oops ... you're right. Here's your vehicle back. Have a nice day. So sorry about what it cost you."

In MY opinion ... that situation would make for an interesting lawsuit. And I WOULD file that lawsuit. Have camera ... have resources.

[vkhamphi]

I have the same question for the same reason. I'm no lawyer either, but I don't think it would require a warrant for the police officer to seize either the camera or the tape / memory card. (If they pulled you over, they already have "probable cause", or something like that.) What if I want to record the traffic stop? Can't play back and record at the same time.

Probable cause for what? Having a camera on your bike? Just because you got pulled over for a moving violation does not mean the police have probable cause for anything. Its not like a traffic stop where the police detect the smell of marijuana and have probably cause to search the car. If contraband such as drugs or drug paraphernalia is in plain sight, thats probable cause for a search, otherwise they need permission. I don't see what reason they would have to take your camera.

[johnp]

he would require a warrant no?

So far as I know. It's true for searching your car, unless there's 'probable cause' of criminal activity.

The only thing I wonder about is if it's OK to take pictures of peace officers e.g. for security/safety reasons, without their permission. There may be an explicit law against that but you could get around it by just not shooting their face. They wouldn't be endangered by that.

I'm not a lawyer.

[Smokeandapancake]

All I can say is I really wouldn't take any advice on any legal aspects from posts here.

[Gaoler]

The only thing I wonder about is if it's OK to take pictures of peace officers e.g. for security/safety reasons, without their permission. There may be an explicit law against that

It's rude to film without permission, but not illegal.

[Rob MacLennan]

I recommend that anyone who wants this question answered read sections 494 through 502 of The Criminal Code of Canada in re: arrest without warrant and preservation of evidence.

[vkhamphi]

All I can say is I really wouldn't take any advice on any legal aspects from posts here.

I totally agree but we can still enter into a discussion.

[murf]

I recommend that anyone who wants this question answered read sections 494 through 502 of The Criminal Code of Canada in re: arrest without warrant and preservation of evidence.

well I don't read legalise .....so my question is basically this, I have the camera rolling (when I'm doing nothing wrong) and its in a fixed position showing the speedo and windscreen, so if I were to get pulled over and I know I have done nothing wrong I would leave the camera rolling in hopes to record the conversation with the police. Now could he request that it be turned off? I would also think they would love to see what else is on their to in hopes of finding something really illegal, could they look at it right there? If they do impound the bike can I take the memory card at least?
Ok, so I have more than one question

[vkhamphi]

well I don't read legalise .....so my question is basically this, I have the camera rolling (when I'm doing nothing wrong) and its in a fixed position showing the speedo and windscreen, so if I were to get pulled over and I know I have done nothing wrong I would leave the camera rolling in hopes to record the conversation with the police. Now could he request that it be turned off? I would also think they would love to see what else is on their to in hopes of finding something really illegal, could they look at it right there? If they do impound the bike can I take the memory card at least?
Ok, so I have more than one question

I'm pretty sure they have no basis to take your camera. They may ask you to stop recording but if your bike is impounded you should be able to unmount the camera (hopefully its got a quick release) before its towed away. If not somebody is going to steal it.

[eastcoast_gsx]

Lets not forget the tasering in Vancouver Airport. They took the kids cell phone camera. Now maybe he didn't resist very much.

[82Seca750]

well I don't read legalise .....so my question is basically this, I have the camera rolling (when I'm doing nothing wrong) and its in a fixed position showing the speedo and windscreen, so if I were to get pulled over and I know I have done nothing wrong I would leave the camera rolling in hopes to record the conversation with the police. Now could he request that it be turned off? I would also think they would love to see what else is on their to in hopes of finding something really illegal, could they look at it right there? If they do impound the bike can I take the memory card at least?
Ok, so I have more than one question

I'm planning the same.

But I'm going with some stealth spyware stuff that's actually on me...not mounted in/on the vehicle....so if some cowboy wants to steal my car for a week....the footage is staying with me....(and up on Youtube within hours).....plus I can use it with all my toys with no mounting issues

My understanding is an officer has to know you're recording the interaction with him/her.....so you would have to notify them early in the conversation. And that's exactly why I'm planning to carry the equipment.....if I'm being accused of doing something I haven't done....(all because the car I'm driving is modified and has boatloads of power)....the officer will be informed asap that I'm hooked up with a survellience system that's monitored my driving behavior since I rolled outta the garage......IMO, that in itself would influence any cowboy of pushing the envelope on a whim.

Hey look.....if I'm smokin my meats in 3rd gear doing 100kph down a 40km residential street.....then bust my ***..........but If I'm driving along doing SFA and for whatever reason the copper doesn't seem to like me or my ride and wants me to be his pet project for the morning....then we have a problem......and I'll be recording all of it

[AdRath]

Just put a sticker in your car like they have at stores or under the CCTV cams downtown saying "this area is under video surveilance".

[strictlye]

he would require a warrant no?

I'm pretty sure he would require a warrant, he could feed you the "he could use probable cause line" to scare you but. He can ask but you don't have to give it to him without a warrant. Cops are very good BSing the law and make you think your breaking it.

[Snobike Mike]

Cops are very good BSing the law and make you think your breaking it.

Very true. They use the general publics ignorance of the law against us all.

Once, a person I know who is a Private Investigator was on a job. A cop pulled up and told that person to identify themselves and move their car. Under the PI legislation, when working, you do not have to identify yourself other than you are a PI, and you do not need to move (unless you're illegally parked). The copper started freaking out, so this person just told the cop to call their supervisor, call the PI supervisor, and if necessary, could call a JP and educate the cop. Boy was the cop ******! But it was very nice to hear a story where the copper got owned while trying to intimidate this person.

[Smokeandapancake]

Very true. They use the general publics ignorance of the law against us all.

Once, a person I know who is a Private Investigator was on a job. A cop pulled up and told that person to identify themselves and move their car. Under the PI legislation, when working, you do not have to identify yourself other than you are a PI, and you do not need to move (unless you're illegally parked). The copper started freaking out, so this person just told the cop to call their supervisor, call the PI supervisor, and if necessary, could call a JP and educate the cop. Boy was the cop ******! But it was very nice to hear a story where the copper got owned while trying to intimidate this person.

Can you point out such PI legislation?????

[Smokeandapancake]

I totally agree but we can still enter into a discussion.

Conversations are fine. Informed conversations are even better, which are few and far between here.

As for seizing the camera, a warrant would likely be needed. If seized, it may not be allowed as evidence on the crowns part.

If used as evidence by the defendent, it may not be accepted as it would be hard to prove when the video was actually taken, as well, that it had not been tampered with.

And there is no such thing as "probable cause" in Canada.

And a police officer can search a motor vehicle with out a warrant in certain instances.

[Rob MacLennan]

Conversations are fine. Informed conversations are even better, which are few and far between here.

As for seizing the camera, a warrant would likely be needed. If seized, it may not be allowed as evidence on the crowns part.

If used as evidence by the defendent, it may not be accepted as it would be hard to prove when the video was actually taken, as well, that it had not been tampered with.

And there is no such thing as "probable cause" in Canada.

And a police officer can search a motor vehicle with out a warrant in certain instances.

I should think that the camera could be seized under CC.495 as evidence, especially in the case of an impaired operation, dangerous operation, or similar charge...? The Code specifies both Indictable and Summary offences.