11B Question

**stevex** · 02-26-2008, 08:22 AM

Ok here is the situation, just looking for a bit of clarification from the experts here who have been through it all.

Speeding ticket in 2006, requested court date, disclosure. Never received disclosure, filed 11B a month before trial. This particular case took place in Newmarket. I sent out 3 copies of the Notice of Consitutional Question (Form 4F). One to the prosecutor, one to attorney general of Ontario, one to attorney general of Canada.

When I arrived at court, the only person with a copy was the prosecutor. They said that I had to send a copy to the COURT as well (its the same address though, which is why I only sent one copy). As well, in my stupidity I did not bring the proof of mailing to the Attorney Generals, so my 11B was summarily rejected. However, because I never received disclosure, this allowed me a 2nd chance at trial which was rescheduled to a later date.

So, new date was set, and I was advised that it is within my right to re-file 11b. I was instructed to order 3 transcripts of the trial's proceedings, and include them with my new 11B application so that new Justice of the Peace will have the case law handy to know what happened during the first trial.

I have the 3 transcripts, however, this is where I'm confused. Who receives the transcripts that I'm to send? The way I'm understanding it, is that I have to mail out 4 copies of my 4F form. I only have 3 transcripts. Help?

**Splash** · 02-26-2008, 06:20 PM

Good question... my guess (and it's only a guess) would be to send out the copies of the transcripts to the prosecutor, one to attorney general of Ontario, one to attorney general of Canada. I would think the court would have their own copy or easy access to the trascripts... But to be safe maybe you should order another transcript.

good luck

**croco** · 02-27-2008, 12:10 PM

You can make a motion to correct the errors in the 11B. And you could have filed the 11B application with the court on the same day as the trial. They have no business seeing it before then anyway.

**Rob MacLennan** · 02-27-2008, 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by croco

You can make a motion to correct the errors in the 11B. And you could have filed the 11B application with the court on the same day as the trial. They have no business seeing it before then anyway.

You can certainly make your motion then, if you do't mind having it denied out of hand.

Stevex, check the information in the stickied thread at the top of the forum and the information at this website: http://www.magma.ca/~fyst

**stevex** · 02-27-2008, 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by Rob MacLennan

You can certainly make your motion then, if you do't mind having it denied out of hand.

Stevex, check the information in the stickied thread at the top of the forum and the information at this website: http://www.magma.ca/~fyst

Rob,

That is where I got most of my information to file the 11B myself in the first place. Problem is, it states that you only need to send a copy of the 4F4 to the Court AND the Crown if the addresses are different. That apparently, is incorrect, since the Crown had a copy, the court did not. (they're the same address). As well, I can't find anything in regards to transcripts on that site.

In regards to the transcript issue, I'm going to attempt to call the crown and ask them, but I really doubt they will offer me any help at all (or even answer the phone, in my experience.). If I had to guess, I would say the safest bet is to mail the transcripts (in addition to 4F4) that I have to

-the court
-the crown
-the attorney general of ontario

The reason I left out the Attorney General of Canada (in regards to the transcript) is because the HTA falls under Provincial legislation...So ultimately I would assume they only need the Notice of Constitutional Question, the case law/history is unimportant.

Either way, from what I understood, there is no correspondence between the crown/court and the AG in these matters. All they want is proof that you mailed/faxed the 4F4 to AG. The crown delighted in ridiculing me for suggesting that the AG was in contact with the crown/court in regards to 11B. Said they receive millions upon millions of these applications and it would be physically impossible etc etc etc.

Anyhow, I'll post any findings, on the off chance that someone here experiences the same situation as myself.

**stevex** · 02-27-2008, 02:23 PM

Wow, that was my first positive experience dealing with the prosecution office.

Turns out 1 copy goes to the court, 1 copy goes to the crown, and 1 copy is mine (this didn't even occur to me). The crown represents the AG so they do not need any copies. Which leads me to ask the question : Why did I even need to order an original for my own records when I could have just photocopied one of the transcripts that I'd be giving to the court or the crown? Cash grab?

SteveT · 02-27-2008, 03:08 PM

Originally Posted by stevex

Wow, that was my first positive experience dealing with the prosecution office.

Turns out 1 copy goes to the court, 1 copy goes to the crown, and 1 copy is mine (this didn't even occur to me). The crown represents the AG so they do not need any copies. Which leads me to ask the question : Why did I even need to order an original for my own records when I could have just photocopied one of the transcripts that I'd be giving to the court or the crown? Cash grab?

You would put the UNION employee that creates the 3 copies out of a job.

**Rob MacLennan** · 02-27-2008, 06:22 PM

Originally Posted by stevex

Wow, that was my first positive experience dealing with the prosecution office.

Turns out 1 copy goes to the court, 1 copy goes to the crown, and 1 copy is mine (this didn't even occur to me). The crown represents the AG so they do not need any copies. Which leads me to ask the question : Why did I even need to order an original for my own records when I could have just photocopied one of the transcripts that I'd be giving to the court or the crown? Cash grab?

Because you need a "certified accurate" copy