New Defense for Tickets: "No hablo Ingles, Senor"

[Rob MacLennan]

I don't think asking people to learn the language of a country they suposedly love is a big stretch. If you don't bother to learn the language of a country you obviously don't care about becoming part of that country. How can you claim to love and be proud to be a citizen of a county and not bother to learn language, customs and laws. Those should be the basic requirements for citizenship.

We're getting further and further away from the original subject with every post. No, I don't agree with the original finding of the court. It is unreasonable to expect that police will have interpreters for every possible language available at their beck and call, all hours of the day, in all areas.

You need to have a high-level knowledge of English in order to function in court. A Russian nuclear technician who makes a concerted effort to learn English over three years in the country may still have an insufficient functioning knowledge of the language, to be able to contribute to his own defence.

Remember, not everyone who is legally in this country is a citizen. Make all the citizenship requirements that you want to; you'll still be dealing with people who don't know the language.

[GSPLover]

I have no issues with people speaking whatever language at home, celebrating festivus or whatever holidays they want. I do however take exception when the Canadianism gets pushed aside. I just don't get it, if people like their homeland and culture so much, why do they leave?

Exactly, this is just one reason that Canada has very few if any traditions and the ones we do have are being taken away.
Anyone remember the story a few years back when a new RCMP officer fought (and I believe won) to be able to wear a turban instead of the TRADITIONAL RCMP hat?



I ask again, if you went to a country such as Saudi Arabia do you think they would change their traditions to suit you?

[AdRath]

We're getting further and further away from the original subject with every post. No, I don't agree with the original finding of the court. It is unreasonable to expect that police will have interpreters for every possible language available at their beck and call, all hours of the day, in all areas.

We both agree 100% on that part.

You need to have a high-level knowledge of English in order to function in court. A Russian nuclear technician who makes a concerted effort to learn English over three years in the country may still have an insufficient functioning knowledge of the language, to be able to contribute to his own defence.

Then hire a lawyer... I don't see any difference between that and someone not being very well educated or intelligent. There are many people that have English as their first language that can't understand legal terms or contribute to their defence. It should never be a reason that a case gets tossed. If you can't defend yourself then hire a lawyer and if you can't speak english enough to help a lawyer defend you then hire a lawyer that speaks your native language. its really simple.

[GSPLover]

Make all the citizenship requirements that you want to; you'll still be dealing with people who don't know the language.

Then boot um out.

[GSPLover]

I don't, though the word "pride" seems to have taken on a different meaning these days. Someone who is proud of who and what he is has no need to beat down others, for who and what THEY are.

No one is being beat down, its just that in the last number of years a large number of immigrants seem to like to have things (laws, customs etc etc) to suit them erasing our Canadian heritage. I was born here I am Canadian. I would not go to another country and expect them to change their laws, customs, ways, language etc to suit me. I would be moving there to BECOME one of them. This means speak the language and live by their laws and not use any language barrier as an excuse, and in this and other cases thats all it is, an excuse. "Ahh no faira...me no speaka da engrish"

[GSPLover]

A friend of mine has been in Canada for 5 years! yet can speak English relatively well (he's Persian and never took an english class in his life) but he tries hard because guess what?? He likes being a Canadian!

This is good to hear!!

[GSPLover]

People will label me anti-immigrant or racist for these views because we've all been programed to not 'rock the boat' or say anything which may not be politically correct.

Not at all, I agree with you 110%. Cant stand this 'politically correct' crap. Dont like my opinion? Shove it you know where. Its my opinion and Im not going to sugar coat it for all the bleeding hearts out there.

[Avi Singh]

You know what I find to be the funniest thing about this thread? In this situation we have an individual who was charged with an offence. That individual used every avenue available to him (language just happened to be one of them) in order to get off on the charge.

Take a look at the laws/regulations/hta section of this forum... How many threads were started by English speaking citizens on how to get off on some charge or another.... i.e. excuses for running a yellow?

Seems to me that people will do anything to not face the consequenses of their actions. You can't hate on someone because they chose language as their way out instead of, "well you see officer the bike that you saw blasting by a moment ago was someone else, with the same bike, and the same license plate, and you've been chasing the wrong guy at 190km/hr for the last 45 minutes!"

I'm not defending they guy, but look in the mirror first before you start trashing on him.

[Rob MacLennan]

No one is being beat down, its just that in the last number of years a large number of immigrants seem to like to have things (laws, customs etc etc) to suit them erasing our Canadian heritage. I was born here I am Canadian. I would not go to another country and expect them to change their laws, customs, ways, language etc to suit me. I would be moving there to BECOME one of them. This means speak the language and live by their laws and not use any language barrier as an excuse, and in this and other cases thats all it is, an excuse. "Ahh no faira...me no speaka da engrish"

Name a few groups that want to live by their own laws and have been accommodated by the government. Cite how our heritage is being eroded.

[Rob MacLennan]

We both agree 100% on that part.

Then hire a lawyer... I don't see any difference between that and someone not being very well educated or intelligent. There are many people that have English as their first language that can't understand legal terms or contribute to their defence. It should never be a reason that a case gets tossed. If you can't defend yourself then hire a lawyer and if you can't speak english enough to help a lawyer defend you then hire a lawyer that speaks your native language. its really simple.

You don't need to understand legal terms in order to assist in your defence. After all, who here DOES understand legalese? What you need to be able to do, is communicate in a clear and concise manner, that conveys all that you wish to, and nothing more. The concept of providing interpreters predates The Charter by many decades, as the concept of Justice can't exist where the ability to mount a reasonable defence, by yourself, is absent.

Avi Singh made an interesting point about the content here, compared to what the person in question did. It's something to consider.

[AdRath]

Name a few groups that want to live by their own laws and have been accommodated by the government. Cite how our heritage is being eroded.

The fact that Sharia (sp?) law was even considered and talked about is a perfect example of that. In related news an Afghan kid was sentenced to death for printing off a paper that disagreed with Islam. (Didn't mean to turn this into an Islam thread but I just read that in the news) I don't consider killing or beating someone because they disagree with a religion or aren't subservient to their husbands part of the values of this country.

I think I also remember a few years ago (probably longer than that) in Quebec a few Hatian men were aquited of rape charges because that is the way they were brought up in Haiti or something like that. I doubt there is an article out there on it still so I will admit I don't have the facts just memory.

[GSPLover]

Name a few groups that want to live by their own laws and have been accommodated by the government. Cite how our heritage is being eroded.

Turbans on the RCMP. Being allowed (or fighting to be allowed) to carry 'ceremonial' daggers in SCHOOLS. Killing your daughter because she disagrees with you and your Islamic beliefs and wants to move out. Three examples that quickly come to mind.
Etc etc etc.
Maybe I should fight to carry my shotgun at work claiming its a 'ceremonial' shotgun?
Carrying a concealed weapon is illegal whether or not you claim it to be 'ceremonial' or not.

[GSPLover]

You know what I find to be the funniest thing about this thread? In this situation we have an individual who was charged with an offence. That individual used every avenue available to him (language just happened to be one of them) in order to get off on the charge.

Take a look at the laws/regulations/hta section of this forum... How many threads were started by English speaking citizens on how to get off on some charge or another.... i.e. excuses for running a yellow?

Seems to me that people will do anything to not face the consequenses of their actions. You can't hate on someone because they chose language as their way out instead of, "well you see officer the bike that you saw blasting by a moment ago was someone else, with the same bike, and the same license plate, and you've been chasing the wrong guy at 190km/hr for the last 45 minutes!"

I'm not defending they guy, but look in the mirror first before you start trashing on him.

If Im charged with something I suck it up. Ive done it many times. Its cost me A LOT of money over a number of years because I did something stupid. I didnt try to make an excuse or get off the charge. I took responsibility for my actions because I knew I had done something very wrong and I was lucky no one was hurt seriously. It seems that more and more people (immigrants and non immigrants) are not willing to do this.

Also, I dont hate someone because they dont speak English as well as I or others here do. I DO have a problem when they move to my country, benefit from living here then try to get out of drunk driving where they could have killed me or you simply because they suddenly claim not to be able to speak English. This guy knew damn well that he was drinking (and probably drunk) shouldn't have been driving and then lied to the officer about having been drinking.
If he knew enough to lie and say he hadn't been drinking he knew what was being said to him.

[Team Lazy]

You know what I find to be the funniest thing about this thread? In this situation we have an individual who was charged with an offence. That individual used every avenue available to him (language just happened to be one of them) in order to get off on the charge.

Take a look at the laws/regulations/hta section of this forum... How many threads were started by English speaking citizens on how to get off on some charge or another.... i.e. excuses for running a yellow?

Seems to me that people will do anything to not face the consequenses of their actions. You can't hate on someone because they chose language as their way out instead of, "well you see officer the bike that you saw blasting by a moment ago was someone else, with the same bike, and the same license plate, and you've been chasing the wrong guy at 190km/hr for the last 45 minutes!"

I'm not defending they guy, but look in the mirror first before you start trashing on him.

Aside from my daily laugh at what some guys figure their 6 year old SS bikes are worth, that right there is my favourite post here in a long time. Of course there must be a reason why it's different than the guys posting on here trying to beat THEIR charges, right?

[Avi Singh]

Also, I dont hate someone because they dont speak English as well as I or others here do. I DO have a problem when they move to my country, benefit from living here then try to get out of drunk driving where they could have killed me or you simply because they suddenly claim not to be able to speak English. This guy knew damn well that he was drinking (and probably drunk) shouldn't have been driving and then lied to the officer about having been drinking.

If he knew enough to lie and say he hadn't been drinking he knew what was being said to him.

1. I was not referring to you personally, but I was simply noting that much of this section has been devoted to people trying to "get off" of some type of charge or another.

2. Impaired offences are not something I take lightly. I have personally lost members of my family because of it. I don't want anyone drinking and driving. I don't want anyone getting off on the charge.

I also recognize however, that we live in a society with due process. Some people will be charged unjustly, others will get off on a technicality. This is the price we pay to live here. Surely you don't want the police to have the authority to simply charge, try, and convict the man on the roadside?

[AdRath]

I also recognize however, that we live in a society with due process. Some people will be charged unjustly, others will get off on a technicality. This is the price we pay to live here. Surely you don't want the police to have the authority to simply charge, try, and convict the man on the roadside?

I agree that this is the price we pay for the freedoms we enjoy but seeing as they have changed the 11b requirements because it was a large loop hole I wish they would take a look at this non-English loop hole. At least the other loop holes and aspects of due process are available to everyone where this loop hole is just for those who do not respect Canada enough to learn one of the two national languages.

No I don't want or think police should have pothe authority to try, convict roadside but with bill 203 that is practically the case anyway. Nothing like giving up rights for the illusion of safety.

[Rob MacLennan]

The fact that Sharia (sp?) law was even considered and talked about is a perfect example of that. In related news an Afghan kid was sentenced to death for printing off a paper that disagreed with Islam. (Didn't mean to turn this into an Islam thread but I just read that in the news) I don't consider killing or beating someone because they disagree with a religion or aren't subservient to their husbands part of the values of this country.

I think I also remember a few years ago (probably longer than that) in Quebec a few Hatian men were aquited of rape charges because that is the way they were brought up in Haiti or something like that. I doubt there is an article out there on it still so I will admit I don't have the facts just memory.

Sharia Law was considered for less time than it takes a good fart to blow away, in a windstorm. Its use was raised by a small group. Even when adjudication is permitted under cultural 'law', our law trumps it. If something is agreed upon that is unenforceable under our statutes, the presiding court of the land is under no requirement to ratify said agreement.

I'd be interested in hearing about that case, if you can find any info. If it's as you say, then I think there's a judge who should lose his bench.

Turbans on the RCMP. Being allowed (or fighting to be allowed) to carry 'ceremonial' daggers in SCHOOLS. Killing your daughter because she disagrees with you and your Islamic beliefs and wants to move out. Three examples that quickly come to mind.
Etc etc etc.
Maybe I should fight to carry my shotgun at work claiming its a 'ceremonial' shotgun?
Carrying a concealed weapon is illegal whether or not you claim it to be 'ceremonial' or not.

I'm not a fan of the turban as part of the RCMP uniform, but tradition remains. We need people in enforcement who understand how the newest members of our society think.

The Kirpan can be as little as a pin, shaped like the actual dagger. It need not be an actual knife and I've known people who wore the pin, or a symbol on a chain.

Killing your daughter for transgressions is illegal both here and in Pakistan. He's been charged. This doesn't impact our society as a whole in any real fashion. It's not like we gave him the right to do so.

[AdRath]

I'd be interested in hearing about that case, if you can find any info. If it's as you say, then I think there's a judge who should lose his bench.
.

Ya I wish I could find the article. I hate when I remember reading something but can't find the source or exact contexts. The only lasting feeling was the outrage at the verdict and I only hope that time hasn't skewed the facts in my own head. I've searched but its a big web out there and it was a around the time I was in the later part of highschool.

[Rob MacLennan]

Ya I wish I could find the article. I hate when I remember reading something but can't find the source or exact contexts. The only lasting feeling was the outrage at the verdict and I only hope that time hasn't skewed the facts in my own head. I've searched but its a big web out there and it was a around the time I was in the later part of highschool.

There's also the issue that media outlets tend to skew the facts these days, in order to create a more interesting story. Yes, I chose those words carefully Consider the McDonald's coffee scalding case, in the US.

[AdRath]

There's also the issue that media outlets tend to skew the facts these days, in order to create a more interesting story. Yes, I chose those words carefully Consider the McDonald's coffee scalding case, in the US.

oh I know... my entire job is to make TV shows by taking celebrity interview bites out of context. lol it really makes you cinical (sp?) of anything you watch.