How to properly break in a new motorcycle?

[stephanieRR]

ok... so being the owner of a brand new '07 CBR600RR, the dealer told me to ride the bike at variable speeds, at variable RPMs for the first 1000kms then bring it in for the first oil change/inspection (which they are including for me at no extra charge - bonus! )... he mentioned that there would be metal shavings in the oil for the first oil change and possibly the second... however, they didn't mention anything about doing oil changes periodically during that first 1000kms... what's the deal with that?

[Dober]

ok... so being the owner of a brand new '07 CBR600RR, the dealer told me to ride the bike at variable speeds, at variable RPMs for the first 1000kms then bring it in for the first oil change/inspection (which they are including for me at no extra charge - bonus! )... he mentioned that there would be metal shavings in the oil for the first oil change and possibly the second... however, they didn't mention anything about doing oil changes periodically during that first 1000kms... what's the deal with that?

If you follow the dealers break in method you wouldn't bother with the extra oil changes. I think maybe they change the oil a little more often when they break the engine in hard because they are worried about breaking something?

[djltoronto]

ok... so being the owner of a brand new '07 CBR600RR, the dealer told me to ride the bike at variable speeds, at variable RPMs for the first 1000kms then bring it in for the first oil change/inspection (which they are including for me at no extra charge - bonus! )... he mentioned that there would be metal shavings in the oil for the first oil change and possibly the second... however, they didn't mention anything about doing oil changes periodically during that first 1000kms... what's the deal with that?

The more oil changes the better. Obviously too many is not practical.
If there is metal filings in the oil, wouldn't you want to change the oil ASAP.

[djltoronto]

ok... so being the owner of a brand new '07 CBR600RR, the dealer told me to ride the bike at variable speeds, at variable RPMs for the first 1000kms then bring it in for the first oil change/inspection (which they are including for me at no extra charge - bonus! )... he mentioned that there would be metal shavings in the oil for the first oil change and possibly the second... however, they didn't mention anything about doing oil changes periodically during that first 1000kms... what's the deal with that?

Also, every oil filter I have ever taken off a bike after a rebuild has been noticably heavier than oil filters from regular oil changes.

(A rebuilt engine is similar to a newly manufactured engine).

Since oil filters have a bypass valve once they are full/clogged, once the oil filter is full/clogged, all the oil, with the metal filings is recirculating throughout the engine!

Unfortunately, there is no practical way to tell when the oil filter is using the bypass valve.

I'm sure breaking in the motor as per the factory specs is perfectly adequate. But there isn't any harm in being extra cautious, and doing a first oil change a little early (500kms or so).

[spankayf]

Dont forget the oil also goes through the clutch and transmission so there can be alot of junk in the first oil change.

Had this discussion at the Eng class at Centennial College with some ancedotal evidence from Scott (Snow City) suggesting the ride like you stole it method showed more horse on the dyno.

[dhtmldude]

Also, every oil filter I have ever taken off a bike after a rebuild has been noticably heavier than oil filters from regular oil changes.

(A rebuilt engine is similar to a newly manufactured engine).

Since oil filters have a bypass valve once they are full/clogged, once the oil filter is full/clogged, all the oil, with the metal filings is recirculating throughout the engine!

Unfortunately, there is no practical way to tell when the oil filter is using the bypass valve.

I'm sure breaking in the motor as per the factory specs is perfectly adequate. But there isn't any harm in being extra cautious, and doing a first oil change a little early (500kms or so).

So as per the type of oil you should use, taking into account that certain oils contain more detergents, higher ash content, different viscosities, etc, is it ok to use a car oil such as Castrol 10W40 on a bike? Or is there something SPECIFIC about bike oil like the points aforementioned that dictate the strict usage of bike oil over car oil?

I know there is a post on the usage of diesel oil, but I didnt quite grasp the bottom line.

[Dober]

So as per the type of oil you should use, taking into account that certain oils contain more detergents, higher ash content, different viscosities, etc, is it ok to use a car oil such as Castrol 10W40 on a bike? Or is there something SPECIFIC about bike oil like the points aforementioned that dictate the strict usage of bike oil over car oil?

I know there is a post on the usage of diesel oil, but I didnt quite grasp the bottom line.

If you plan to use car oil you have to stay away from the ones that have the energy conservation rating. I think thats what its called anyways... Those oils have friction modifiers in them that aren't good for bikes that have wet clutches which use the engine oil for lubrication.

[chiller]

If you plan to use car oil you have to stay away from the ones that have the energy conservation rating. I think thats what its called anyways... Those oils have friction modifiers in them that aren't good for bikes that have wet clutches which use the engine oil for lubrication.

i hear corn oil works great...

[djltoronto]

So as per the type of oil you should use, taking into account that certain oils contain more detergents, higher ash content, different viscosities, etc, is it ok to use a car oil such as Castrol 10W40 on a bike? Or is there something SPECIFIC about bike oil like the points aforementioned that dictate the strict usage of bike oil over car oil?

I know there is a post on the usage of diesel oil, but I didnt quite grasp the bottom line.

This has pretty much been discussed to death.
Peoples favourite oil is like asking what their favourite tire is, what their favourite colour is.

The Bottom line:
NO, car oils are for cars. They have friction modifiers, and blah blah blah that are not freindly to wet motorcycle clutches, nor are they ideal for the gears in the transmission.

Use an oil that at least meets the minimum specs for your machine.
Most likely JASO MA

Costrol does make a 10w40 oil for motorcycles! It says MA right on it. (I use Motul 5100 exclusively)



Generic image from the net

[dhtmldude]

This has pretty much been discussed to death.
Peoples favourite oil is like asking what their favourite tire is, what their favourite colour is.

The Bottom line:
NO, car oils are for cars. They have friction modifiers, and blah blah blah that are not freindly to wet motorcycle clutches, nor are they ideal for the gears in the transmission.

Use an oil that at least meets the minimum specs for your machine.
Most likely JASO MA

Costrol does make a 10w40 oil for motorcycles! It says MA right on it. (I use Motul 5100 exclusively)



Generic image from the net

welp, looks like i gotta drain the fresh 10w40 i put in and do another oil change

[invictus43]

Also, every oil filter I have ever taken off a bike after a rebuild has been noticably heavier than oil filters from regular oil changes.

Are you kidding me? "Noticably heavier"? Come on! Try weighing them with a gram scale, after draining all the oil and maybe I'll buy this story!

You know, this topic comes up every year, and every year someone has second-hand stories and first-hand "expertise". Who are you going to trust? Mototune? Because he's rebuilt some engines? I've rebuilt engines too and I have no problem accepting that automotive engineers know a helluva lot more about engines than I do. I assure you, Honda has been building engines for years, from scratch. They know what they're talking about! Read the fscking manual! Brand new engines come stock with synthetic oil from the factory..and you're telling me you can't break them in with synthetic oil??
And oil changes at 100, 200, 500, 1000kms? Sigh...

[FearNoSpeed]

...

[invictus43]

...

Post of the year..thanks for coming out..

[djltoronto]

Are you kidding me? "Noticably heavier"? Come on! Try weighing them with a gram scale, after draining all the oil and maybe I'll buy this story!

Sorry I've go no evidence whatsoever... Just my word.

Why is this even hard to beleive? Do you doubt that a freshly rebuilt motor will shed some metal fillings?, and those filling would get trapped by the filter? (and yes, I did puncture the anit-drainback valve so the oil filter wasn't full of oil)

I usually use decent oil filters too (10 micron where avaialble). Maybe that enhanced the effect, by trapping more crap.

I did say the OEM recomended procedure would be fine as well, but how can you deny that more frequent changes would be nothing but benificial!

[djltoronto]

Read the fscking manual! Brand new engines come stock with synthetic oil from the factory..and you're telling me you can't break them in with synthetic oil??

I've never heard of this? What new engines come swith Synthetic oil?

[invictus43]

Sorry I've go no evidence whatsoever... Just my word.

Why is this even hard to beleive? Do you doubt that a freshly rebuilt motor will shed some metal fillings?, and those filling would get trapped by the filter? (and yes, I did puncture the anit-drainback valve so the oil filter wasn't full of oil)

I usually use decent oil filters too (10 micron where avaialble). Maybe that enhanced the effect, by trapping more crap.

I did say the OEM recomended procedure would be fine as well, but how can you deny that more frequent changes would be nothing but benificial!

First, sorry if I sound like an a55. It's just that this comes up every so often and it amazes me how these old myths get perpetuated.

Ok..take two oil filters, tape a quarter to one of them, then try to see which one is heavier. I guarantee you can't tell. And if you have more than a quarter's worth of metal in your filter, you're rebuilding your engine again.

Second, there's nothing wrong with more oil changes than stated in the manual, other than wasting money and needlessly using up a resource. Change it every day! You'd say, that's ridiculous..every day! It's just wasted oil. If the guys who designed your engine say that doing the first change at 8k is ok, why would you doubt that? So your engine will expire sooner and they can make more money off of you?? Please don't use that argument, it's the most desperate one imaginable.

Many Acuras now come stock with synthetic oil from the factory. All I'm saying is, why take the word of someone who may or may not have any education in how an engine works? People have just purchased a very expensive, complex machine and it bothers me that they ignore the manual delivered with it to take the word of someone who has very little, if any, education in metallurgy and tribology. Not you specifically..just in general.

[djltoronto]

First, sorry if I sound like an a55. It's just that this comes up every so often and it amazes me how these old myths get perpetuated.

Ok..take two oil filters, tape a quarter to one of them, then try to see which one is heavier. I guarantee you can't tell. And if you have more than a quarter's worth of metal in your filter, you're rebuilding your engine again.

Second, there's nothing wrong with more oil changes than stated in the manual, other than wasting money and needlessly using up a resource. Change it every day! You'd say, that's ridiculous..every day! It's just wasted oil. If the guys who designed your engine say that doing the first change at 8k is ok, why would you doubt that? So your engine will expire sooner and they can make more money off of you?? Please don't use that argument, it's the most desperate one imaginable.

Many Acuras now come stock with synthetic oil from the factory. All I'm saying is, why take the word of someone who may or may not have any education in how an engine works? People have just purchased a very expensive, complex machine and it bothers me that they ignore the manual delivered with it to take the word of someone who has very little, if any, education in metallurgy and tribology. Not you specifically..just in general.

Fair enough, you can't go too far off track by following the manual.
I try to never recommend anything contrary to the manual.

As for the difference in weight of oil filters, of course, I wouldn't be able to tell the difference if one of them had a quarter attached to it and one didn't.

But, again, not to be argumentative, just sharing my experience cause this DID happen.
A few years back, I bought a 1988 civic that had spun a crank bearing. Crank mains were machined, cylinder bores were not touched.
After about 900 or so km's of taking it slightly easy on it (not hitting redline), I was driving home on the 401, for about 1 hour. When I got off the 401, at the first red light, I actually had the oil pressure light flickering! (only at idle). So I practically walked the car home (slow), and did an oil change immediately, the oil filter was heavy (not by the weight of a quarter), quite noticeable.
My first thoughts were, this sucks, and I assumed something had gone terribly wrong.

I drained the filter itself overnight, and the next day, the filter was still heavy, I poked some holes in it to see if it was just full of oil, and it was not! (of course it was wet with oil though)
100,000 kms later, I sold the car! Engine was still fine after that!

Was it a defective filter with a defective bypass valve - maybe?
Was all the added weight attributed to metal fillings - probably not?
Perhaps there was a small amount of metal filings caught in the filter material that helped oil stick to it like a sponge, which is why it felt heavier. I'm just guessing as to the cause, but it was certainly heavier than the next filter than came off that car.

I did not cut it in half, to analyze, I was just happy the engine was running strong, and still had proper compression.

Since then, I have done the first oil change after a rebuild within the first 500 kms. I could just be wasting oil and time, but it does make me feel better.

I suppose it's probably noteworthy to say, an engine that rebuild in my garage is most defiantly not directly comparable with a new engine assembled by Honda/Suzuki/Kawasaki/Yamaha etc... But I do think that break in principles are the same for both!

As for Acura's coming stock with Synth oil, I've never heard of that till now, and thanks for sharing, cause it seems to be true! Good to know.
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...1_Brochure.pdf



My Suzuki manual tells me to change my oil filter every 3rd oil cahnge!
I think this is silly, so I change it ever oil change, just playin it safe.

[Draiter]

Many Acuras now come stock with synthetic oil from the factory. All I'm saying is, why take the word of someone who may or may not have any education in how an engine works? People have just purchased a very expensive, complex machine and it bothers me that they ignore the manual delivered with it to take the word of someone who has very little, if any, education in metallurgy and tribology. Not you specifically..just in general.

Corvettes have been coming with synthetic oil in them for a LONG time now. Unfortunately, you cannot compare car engines which redline at 6000 RPMS to motorcycle engines such as those in a inline 4 which cruise at 6 -7000RPMS and redline at amost 14000 RPMs... you are comparing apples to oranges. Your arguement might be valid had you said that several motorcycles had been coming from the factory with synthetic in them... too this date none of them have.
Also, what makes you so sure that the people who are giving the advice regarding engine break-in are not well educated in the fields of which you speak? You are making a HUGE assumption.... which may, or may not be correct. Irregardless your opinion is no more or less valid than any other opinion on here, your arguement regarding synthetic is a different story.

So how you want to break in your engine is entirely up to you... researching all facets of the topic, or listening to all arguements will certainly not hurt.... but to suggest that the only people who know how to break-in engines properly are the major manufacturers is ridiculous. Most race engines for autos are broken in in three or so hours on a dyno....and the oil is first changed right after the initial warm up, and I gurantee that these guys know JUST as much as the engineers from Honda.

Anyhow, break it in how you want to... It's under warranty....

[djltoronto]

break it in how you want to... It's under warranty....

So true!

[invictus43]

Corvettes have been coming with synthetic oil in them for a LONG time now. Unfortunately, you cannot compare car engines which redline at 6000 RPMS to motorcycle engines such as those in a inline 4 which cruise at 6 -7000RPMS and redline at amost 14000 RPMs... you are comparing apples to oranges.

Not so fast. What makes you think they're all that different? The redline is lower, but the components are also much larger. And the stroke is longer. Piston speed is probably pretty close. Oil does three things: creates a "cushion" for bearings, lubricates metal on metal components and dissipates heat. Given the scale of the engine, it could be argued that a large v8 is a more difficult job for an oil than a bike engine. I don't believe that it's apples and oranges. And anyway, what does that have to do with engine break-in?

Also, what makes you so sure that the people who are giving the advice regarding engine break-in are not well educated in the fields of which you speak? You are making a HUGE assumption.... which may, or may not be correct.

I know that the person who designed the engine in your bike is much more educated about metallurgy, wear patterns, tribology, thermodynamics, the relevant things when it comes to engine behaviour, than Mr. Mototune (who, by the way, has steadily been downgrading the radical treatment he suggests over the last 5 years..he's practically suggesting the same procedure as the manual now, quite different than what he was suggesting in the past..), anybody on here who has rebuilt a motor and 99% of anyone who suggests what the proper break-in procedure is.

So how you want to break in your engine is entirely up to you... researching all facets of the topic, or listening to all arguements will certainly not hurt.... but to suggest that the only people who know how to break-in engines properly are the major manufacturers is ridiculous. Most race engines for autos are broken in in three or so hours on a dyno....and the oil is first changed right after the initial warm up, and I gurantee that these guys know JUST as much as the engineers from Honda.

Anyhow, break it in how you want to... It's under warranty....

Listening to people put forth nonsense and pretend it's an argument certainly can hurt. And I'm not suggesting that only the manufacturers know how to break-in engines. I'm saying, they know better than anyone how to break them in. Sure, listen to whomever you want. Go see your mechanic and let him diagnose your heart condition..I'm sure his common sense will work for you.

As far as breaking in an engine on a dyno and race teams, I am well aware that they know what they're doing. They get direct factory support and education. Not only that, their break-in procedure is very controlled, heat-cycling (which is more important that anything else by the way), rpm, load, throttle.