South of the border banter.

[Wingboy]

Ahh wintertime.Tis the season to get on a discussion board and get out the popcorn.And i thought that we here in Canada got into some heated debates about helmets,law enforcement and politics. The folks on this Goldwing board are hot and heavy into a great discussion over helmet laws in Kentucky in this thread http://www.gl1800riders.com/forums/v...c.php?t=102074 and about guns in this one http://www.gl1800riders.com/forums/v...c.php?t=102179 great reading.Esp the guns thread.As a Canadian,it really leaves you scratching your head.

[kramer]

The only worrysome replies about guns are from the few cops who have the "only I should have a weapon, he doesn't need one" attitude. The first reply even goes to state that the first thing he'd do is draw his revolver.

Talk about mixed up priorities... that's the kinda trigger happy nut that should never be allowed on the force. Scary.

[Dilligaf0220]

The only worrysome replies about guns are from the few cops who have the "only I should have a weapon, he doesn't need one" attitude. The first reply even goes to state that the first thing he'd do is draw his revolver.

Talk about mixed up priorities... that's the kinda trigger happy nut that should never be allowed on the force. Scary.

If you noticed the poster claimed to be a swine from Vancouver (I say "claimed" because it has been a long long time since a BC LEO carried a revolver). I've talked with several US LEO's and all are fine with concealed carry in a traffic stop if it is announced straight away and the driver has a permit. If one has a CCW permit that tells the LEO right away he's not dealing with a bad guy, most US states don't even allow a legally carried weapon to be secured by an officer during a traffic stop. If it's an illegal weapon that's a whole different story.

Canadians (and especially Canuckistan swine) are far too uptight with guns.

[TLDeano]

"scratching my head" Tell me about it. Last time I was at Deals Gap I was sitting around the fire talkin with Americans about differences in U.S. to Canada and one guy says to me, "So ya'll dont carrys no guns ? How ya'll gonna pertect yerself when yer at Wendys and some loose nut starts shootin up the place?!?!" And they laugh at my so called "TV accent" ,
Please.
After a Cherehola ride I asked a guy at the gas station how to get back to Maryville to complete the loop, and he says to me " Ya'll want to get back thur do ya? Well, I'll tell yooo wut, if ya'll just did the churahola, then ya'll can go to Maryville down that thur road, and take the Dragon road, but be careful, its WORSER."
I was speechless , I had never heard the word WORSER before, let alone used in sentence. Good hearted people though, dont get me wrong.I love it there, but after a week there, ya'll start talkin like them.

[kramer]

"scratching my head" Tell me about it. Last time I was at Deals Gap I was sitting around the fire talkin with Americans about differences in U.S. to Canada and one guy says to me, "So ya'll dont carrys no guns ? How ya'll gonna pertect yerself when yer at Wendys and some loose nut starts shootin up the place?!?!" And they laugh at my so called "TV accent" ,
Please.
After a Cherehola ride I asked a guy at the gas station how to get back to Maryville to complete the loop, and he says to me " Ya'll want to get back thur do ya? Well, I'll tell yooo wut, if ya'll just did the churahola, then ya'll can go to Maryville down that thur road, and take the Dragon road, but be careful, its WORSER."
I was speechless , I had never heard the word WORSER before, let alone used in sentence. Good hearted people though, dont get me wrong.I love it there, but after a week there, ya'll start talkin like them.

I don't see how any of that is relevant. You realize that if you went to the UK they'd be making fun of you for your accent right? I don't see what dialect has to do with it.

Personally Im happy that there is at least one civilized nation left in the world where its citizens are allowed to carry firearms for self defense. Thats a basic human freedom which more of us should be afforded, IMO. And for what its worth, I have no reason to trust an individual officer more than I trust a regular citizen with a gun. In most cases the cops don't get near enough training with their firearms and its downright scary in some situations. Having participated in training sessions with cops myself, I can attest that half the newbies on the force are downright uncomfortable with their firearms... and these are people I should trust with my life? Yikes.

[TLDeano]

Its just banter dude, dont take it personally. My point is how different it is just a few hundred miles to the south. I dont feel anyone should have the power in their pocket to blow someones head off.IMO.

[kramer]

Its just banter dude, dont take it personally. My point is how different it is just a few hundred miles to the south. I dont feel anyone should have the power in their pocket to blow someones head off.IMO.

Newsflash: everyone has the power to kill somebody... gun or no gun. Disarming law abiding citizens doesn't disarm the criminals.

[Gh0sT]

If you are a legal, law-abiding citizen (ie. NOT a convicted felon), without a history psychotic illness, I see no viable reason whatsoever, you should not be able to own a gun. The nature of carrying one concealed on the street, is something I'm still undecided on. Although the idea is growing on me as of late. Having one (or more for that matter) in your home, I see no problem with whatsoever. These were my opinons when I wrote my college paper on gun control in 1992, and they really haven't changed much.

What HAS changed, is my ability "to see the forrest from the trees". Wisdom comes with age. And in the last 15 years past, I've only seen our society grown more apathetic, to the concept of personal responsibility. I've observed a justice system, that acts no different than a revolving door. And "parents", who have no understanding of the notion. As hard as police work, they are still only human. They can only do so much, and they are at the mercy of our courts. Just as we are.

Criminals don't play by the same set of rules as law-abiding citizens. Taking the hunting rifle out of the hands of some middle-age farmer, 300 kilometers north of an urban ghetto, does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to deter the petty thug from obtaining one on the blackmarket. What may deter said thug from holding someone up on the street, or breaking into their home, is the possibility of them never being able to reasonably gauge who is armed, and who is not, at any given time. The notion of obscurity, would somewhat level the playing field.

[DUPPY]

If you are a legal, law-abiding citizen (ie. NOT a convicted felon), without a history psychotic illness, I see no viable reason whatsoever, you should not be able to own a gun. The nature of carrying one concealed on the street, is something I'm still undecided on. Although the idea is growing on me as of late. Having one (or more for that matter) in your home, I see no problem with whatsoever. These were my opinons when I wrote my college paper on gun control in 1992, and they really haven't changed much.

What HAS changed, is my ability "to see the forrest from the trees". Wisdom comes with age. And in the last 15 years past, I've only seen our society grown more apathetic, to the concept of personal responsibility. I've observed a justice system, that acts no different than a revolving door. And "parents", who have no understanding of the notion. As hard as police work, they are still only human. They can only do so much, and they are at the mercy of our courts. Just as we are.

Criminals don't play by the same set of rules as law-abiding citizens. Taking the hunting rifle out of the hands of some middle-age farmer, 300 kilometers north of an urban ghetto, does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to deter the petty thug from obtaining one on the blackmarket. What may deter said thug from holding someone up on the street, or breaking into their home, is the possibility of them never being able to reasonably gauge who is armed, and who is not, at any given time. The notion of obscurity, would somewhat level the playing field.

If that's true, should'nt the crime rate be lower in the states?

[rukus]

as much as i am for helmets, i think that helmets should be optional, but insurance should be higher for nekkid riders.

but with our socialistic healthcare system the way it is, helmets should be mandatory.
same goes for seatbelts.

[kramer]

If that's true, should'nt the crime rate be lower in the states?

Homicide rate in Ontario is about 1.5 per 100,000 while the homicide rate in New Hampshire is about 1.4 per 100,000.

In Saskatchewan the rate is about 4.5 per 100,000.

What's my point? There are far more important factors affecting crime rate than gun control laws... and the rates vary wildly on a state by state basis. New Hampshire (just one example of a low homicide state) is among the easiest states to get a CCW permit.

So to answer your question... the crime rate is lower in many states. I'd venture to say that gun control laws simply don't impact the crime rate in any significant manner at all. Poverty has to be the largest contributor.

[DUPPY]

Homicide rate in Ontario is about 1.5 per 100,000 while the homicide rate in New Hampshire is about 1.4 per 100,000.

In Saskatchewan the rate is about 4.5 per 100,000.

What's my point? There are far more important factors affecting crime rate than gun control laws... and the rates vary wildly on a state by state basis. New Hampshire (just one example of a low homicide state) is among the easiest states to get a CCW permit.

So to answer your question... the crime rate is lower in many states. I'd venture to say that gun control laws simply don't impact the crime rate in any significant manner at all. Poverty has to be the largest contributor.

I'm not one for believing into stats, but when that's all you have to work with...
In any event, all those figures are homicide, what about over all crime rate for those cities?

[kramer]

Generally the stats stay together... high murder rate also means a higher overall crime rate.

Province murder rates per 100,000:
(1) Nunavut 10.21
(2) Northwest Territories 9.55
(3) Saskatchewan 4.12
(4) Manitoba 3.70
(5) Yukon 3.22
(6) British Columbia 2.24
(7) Alberta 2.00
(8 Ontario 1.45
(9) Quebec 1.34
(10) New Brunswick 1.07
(11) Newfoundland 0.96
(12) Nova Scotia 0.85
(13) Prince Edward Island 0.73

Top ten safest states for murder:
(1) Maine 1.2
(2) South Dakota 1.3
(3) New Hampshire 1.4
(4) Iowa 1.6
(5) Hawaii 1.7
(6) Idaho 1.8
(7) North Dakota 1.9
(8 Oregon 1.9
(9) Massachusetts 2.2
(10) Rhode Island 2.3

Top ten most dangerous states for murder:
(1) Louisiana 13.0
(2) Maryland 9.5
(3) Mississippi 9.3
(4) Nevada 8.8
(5) Arizona 7.9
(6) Georgia 7.6
(7) South Carolina 7.2
(8 California 6.8
(9) Tennessee 6.8
(10) Alabama 6.6

So you can see that rates in the US vary quite wildly depending on region. If you dig around further you'll find that its hard to correlate any of these numbers to gun control laws. Some of the safe states have lax laws, others have tighter laws. Some of the most dangerous states have tight laws, and others have lax gun laws. All that tells me in the end is that gun control laws don't really influence the overall crime rate and homicide figures.

Also when looking at the list you'll see that while the average Canadian homicide rate is lower, there are some areas in Canada which are far more dangerous than some states down south. Also, for what its worth, Ontario has the most guns in all of Canada (by far) and also happens to be one of the safer provinces. Although the news media would have you believing otherwise with all the "gun crime" stories about Toronto. The fact is, we're pretty damn safe in this city for its size... and more than half the homicides are gang related. Bad guys shooting bad guys, for the most part. Its just a shame the odd innocent bystander gets shot once in a while too... but regardless, its almost always a known criminal doing the shooting.

One more fact: of the roughly 600 homicides in Canada every year, 200 are by way of gun, 200 by stabbing, and the other 200 by misc. methods. Ban guns all you want, it just means we'll have more stabbings. UK is a good example of this. In the end, 600 murders for over 30,000,000 people is barely a dent, IMO. We're doing good.

[Gh0sT]

If that's true, should'nt the crime rate be lower in the states?

No. Because carrying concealed in the United States STILL requires a special permit, last I heard. In addition, there's the issue of their 300 million-plus population, campared to our 30 million. And not every household contains one or more firearms.

[grimz]

nevermind the gun's issue....real issues are more important...like beer and coffee.and hockey.and clubs.and thanksgiving,whats with the different dates,take that much longer to take the land in another country?).and the damn clock.and timmies vs krispey kreme(haha)
and music.why the hell do so many of our (other than hip hop) artists take off eh?money money money.....why is all there loot green?why is our weed so much better?and cheaper.how come shoes are so cheap down there?how come mexico has mexicans?but they all want to go to l.a.but the best tequilla comes from "back home".
how come america freaks out over football.dudes are wearin shiny super tight shorts,and one guy bends over and another dude puts his hands under his butt n screams numbers?and why the hell is it called a super bowl ?they aint bowling?

[l33t Rider]

I don't see how any of that is relevant. You realize that if you went to the UK they'd be making fun of you for your accent right? I don't see what dialect has to do with it.

Personally Im happy that there is at least one civilized nation left in the world where its citizens are allowed to carry firearms for self defense. Thats a basic human freedom which more of us should be afforded, IMO. And for what its worth, I have no reason to trust an individual officer more than I trust a regular citizen with a gun. In most cases the cops don't get near enough training with their firearms and its downright scary in some situations. Having participated in training sessions with cops myself, I can attest that half the newbies on the force are downright uncomfortable with their firearms... and these are people I should trust with my life? Yikes.

You want everyone to be able to carry guns? I can barely trust the fact that everyone is allowed to DRIVE, let alone carry someone specifically designed to kill someone. Let's work on the driver licensing to get that 100% before we allow the road rage losers, soccer moms, and whoever else to carry guns.

[kramer]

You want everyone to be able to carry guns? I can barely trust the fact that everyone is allowed to DRIVE, let alone carry someone specifically designed to kill someone. Let's work on the driver licensing to get that 100% before we allow the road rage losers, soccer moms, and whoever else to carry guns.

Where did I say I wanted everyone to carry a gun?

If a citizen is properly trained and educated, he's no less trustworthy than a cop to carry a gun. In fact, every single Canadian gun owner who I've met (save for some old guys who can't be taught new tricks) has been nothing but 100% safety minded with their firearms. What makes the blue uniform and a few weeks of training the golden ticket to be able to carry a firearm? Cops are just average Joes too you know.

Why not allow citizens to pay for this same training and education themselves, and then if they pass the necessary testing and background checks, allow them to carry a firearm. Its no different than a cop carrying a gun.

[Gh0sT]

OMG. I actually agree with Kramer on an issue.

The end of the world, is DEFINATELY at hand.

[kramer]

So when you agree, you stick around... but when you're outclassed in an argument you run away with the tail between your legs.

Neat trick. Keep up the good work

See ya on the range.

[Akshun]

Unless any of you ARE cops, you haven't a clue.
As for citizens carrying firearms... nopes. Why?
The US thinks very differently than we do, end of story.