Sicko - Sickening

[sonnythebull]

A public system's inherent danger is that it doesn't matter what happens, the money will always be there for it to keep going. Throwing money at the problem IS the solution of preference because public companies/institutions don't answer to the ultimate boss - the bottom line. Technically they should answer to me and you, the taxpayer, but that doesn't happen in practice.

If our health care system were truly in the BUSINESS of making people better/healthier, it'd be a whole lot better. Businesses utilize their resources to the maximum, otherwise they disappear. Like I (others) said, if a public system isn't working 100%, it's no big deal, more money is thrown at it.

What needs to happen is an honest business overview of our processes, policies etc. with an end goal of servicing as many people with an efficient amount of 'employees'. A business consultant could go hog wild solving the opperational deficiencies that happen in our hospitals. Unfortunately, politics plays a much bigger role and thus far this hasn't happened.

brilliant as well!!

[AdRath]

I have lived on both sides of the border and ALL of my family other that myself live in Ft.Lauderdale.
That said both systems have some huge problems. In the US its defineately a for profit system however if you have a decent job health insurance is generally part of your package. Every area has county run hospitals that will not turn you away regardless of your finacial or insurance state. In Lauderdale its Broward General. Also any hospital that wants to keep its charity status is required by law to take a certain amount of non-insured patients. Just down the street from my house there was one called Holy Cross. Now the good part. American hospitals put ours to shame for the most part. You can get any diagnostic testing in a day, unlike here where you get it when the list says you get it if at all.
In Ontario everyone gets healthcare however the quality is questionable and its far from free. My mother is an RN in the US her and I make very similar money, however her weekly paycheck is almost 40% higher than mine. At the end of the year she writes off her mortgage and credit card interest and gets a nice chunk back from Uncle Sam. Her healthcare insurance is part of her benefit package.
In this country our only suggestion to fix our sick (pun intended) system is to throw more money at it. It hasn't fixed it since its inception so what makes us think that it will now. Just like every midlevel manager they will just spend like drunken sailors so next years budget will not be reduced should there be any savings to be found.
As for my opinion I would love to see a way to opt out of universal healthcare and be responsible for my own insurance. Of course stay out of my pocket while I do it. My tax burdon FAR outweighs the cost of a premium insurance policy. Unemployment Insurance as well while I am at it.
Before I get the go back to the US then thread. My ONLY reason for still residing in the great white north is my children are here and as soon as they are grown I will be going back. I love alot of things about this country but have seen enough bad to make my decision somewhat easy. Flame away.

That has been my experience with family down south.

[Gh0sT]

Just watched the movie and I'm speechless.
If half of this is true about American healthcare, well, I cant believe this.
It said it was funny on the cover, but I actually cried watching it, nothing was funny at all.
How can the great U.S of A. do this to thier own ppl? The only Great thing about USA seems to be corporate profits, and how passive the general American public can be to this. I visit US quite a bit and find Americans very freindly and I have a good time there, spending my money there, but this movie makes me proud to be Canadian. The only thing the movie doesnt show is the taxes we pay, with is probably very high , but after seeing this movie, I'm glad for the services we have here.
I hope American ppl open their eyes and minds up and see how other governments service their ppl, and demand change in their own country.

Based on Moore's past "Mockumentarys", YES. You'd be lucky, if "half" of it WAS true.

[Wingboy]

Americans are very sensitive about this kind of subject.I posted a request for feedback on "Sicko" on a US forum,and the thread was promptly removed by the mods.They don't even want to discuss M. Moore.

[Gh0sT]

Wingboy....

I'd bet you dollars to donuts, it was the inadvertent mention of Moore, that caused the deletion of your post. The Americans I know, anyways, have no issues with frank and open discusion. Regarding the worldwide state of healthcare, our's compared to their's, etc, etc...They just resent Hollywood liars who profit off untruths. In regards to someone of Moore's "character", I can't blame them one bit. He's made alot of money, off alot of unsubstantiated claims. Not only about the United States, but many other countries too (like our own). Americans I know, want to distance themselves as far from him as possible.

[TLDeano]

This is all great stuff, thanks to all who took a minute to reply, more so ppl from U.S. and abroad .
I still believe quite a bit of it, as my buddy is french and he says its not way far off, and the stuff Moore showed on the Canadian side was fairly real, but he didnt show the tax costs and medical wait times.

Though if healthcare is free(ish) here , it'll always be busy, if everyones covered, everyone will use it.
Also, with all due respect, if your not sick, and you dont use it, of coarse you dont want to pay into it, thats an easy statement to make until your sick or hurt. I've cut my hand ,got stiches,had stuff taken out of eye, yada, yada, and cant begin the think how much this wouldve cost.
I'd have more $ on payday if the taxes were lower, but I cant say that it would in my account if I cut my hand or needed an operation. Most of the population here and abroad can honestly say that I'm sure.

Americans ( and Everone else to a certian degree) will pick apart and disregard anyone who speaks negatively on their countries state and systems, so I can surely see major issues of this sort on US msg boards. Between this movie, and Supersize Me, the Corporate US is not shown in a very pretty light.

[vkhamphi]

high income earners pay the majority of the countrys income tax and contribute the most to charory. so it goes both ways

High income earners actually pay a smaller tax rate percentage wise than low income earners. Saw a NBC news segment with Warren Buffet. His income tax rate is lower than everyone on his staff (secretaries, etc.).

[kneedragger88]

This is all great stuff, thanks to all who took a minute to reply, more so ppl from U.S. and abroad .
I still believe quite a bit of it, as my buddy is french and he says its not way far off, and the stuff Moore showed on the Canadian side was fairly real, but he didnt show the tax costs and medical wait times.

Though if healthcare is free(ish) here , it'll always be busy, if everyones covered, everyone will use it.
Also, with all due respect, if your not sick, and you dont use it, of coarse you dont want to pay into it, thats an easy statement to make until your sick or hurt. I've cut my hand ,got stiches,had stuff taken out of eye, yada, yada, and cant begin the think how much this wouldve cost.
I'd have more $ on payday if the taxes were lower, but I cant say that it would in my account if I cut my hand or needed an operation. Most of the population here and abroad can honestly say that I'm sure.

I can't comment on MM and his movie as I have not seen it. But after seeing several of his other works I have to take most of it with some skeptisism (sp).
I am guessing the point about people "opting out" because they don't need it was directed at my comment in an earlier post. I wasn't suggesting opting out of healthcare. Just the overpriced Canadian version. I would NEVER be without medical coverage. What I was suggesting was I would be more than willing to buy my own insurance just stop taxing my *** off while I do it.
HEALTHCARE IN ONTARIO IS NOT FREE! "ISH" OR OTHERWISE.
This kind of mindset in my opinion is the biggest reason that our system is in the condition it's in. We have been brainwashed as a society to believe that the goverment will take care of us from cradle to grave (thanks,Truedeu) and we swollow the same old line that it costs more and more and more.
In the end our system gets worse and every upcoming politician gets on the soapbox as the next great saviour of public health in order to get elected. Then does the same crap as every one before him and throws good money after bad only to keep coming back to our wallets over and over again. Mc.Pinochio's latest $900 health care levy (NOT A TAX) is just the last in a long line. But the next one is just around the corner.
Sorry for the rant but this topic gets under my skin. Especially as someone who has lived and paid for both systems.

[Scudzo_2]

The Americans I know, anyways, have no issues with frank and open discusion.

You can't know that many "Amurkun's" then. My step-mom has venom in her voice whenever the topic of "socialized medicine" comes up.

I waited 12 weeks for a CT scan on this side of the border. I gladly would have paid a small fee to get it done quicker!

Here if you get sick, you eventually get some help. In the US if you get sick and if you can't afford coverage, you don't get help, or you get bills for the rest of your life!

[eastcoast_gsx]

You can't know that many "Amurkun's" then. My step-mom has venom in her voice whenever the topic of "socialized medicine" comes up.

I waited 12 weeks for a CT scan on this side of the border. I gladly would have paid a small fee to get it done quicker!

Here if you get sick, you eventually get some help. In the US if you get sick and if you can't afford coverage, you don't get help, or you get bills for the rest of your life!

I heard on some show that Medical Bills are the #1 cause of Bankruptcy in the US...

And people clammor about if you have INS you are fine... well, their business model works on NOT PAYING CLAIMS... that is the point of the documentary. The direct conflict between receving INS help, and INS profits

[gps]

I'm glad for the services we have here.

My friend, it sounds like you've had good experiences. I wish I could say the same but alas, I cannot. If I had the option to pay for advanced health care, I'd do it, even if it set me back a few years' salary.

[Duster929]

Ah, good old Michael Moore. Such a risk-taking documentarian.

Let's look at the "controversial" subjects he's taken on....

The car companies and corporate greed.
Gun manufacturers and corporate greed.
The Bush administration and corporate greed.
The health care system and, yeah, you guessed it, corporate greed.

He really takes on some challenging topics. It's so hard to make a case that corporate greed is bad and that there are injustices perpretrated on the poor by the rich. Thank God we have Michael Moore to point this out to us, otherwise we'd never figure it out.

His next topic was going to be "pollution is bad", but Al Gore beat him to it. I think his next movie is about how taking candy from babies is wrong, followed by an expose of how the Nazi party did some bad things in Germany in the 1930s.

Pu-lease. Can we stop holding up Michael Moore as some kind of crusader for the truth? Is there any serious point in any of his movies that actually takes a controversial point of view which challenges popular opinion? Have his movies actually changed anyone's point of view on anything? All he has done is taken bad things and made them look worse. He polarizes the discussion and heaps blame on whoever it's popular to blame. His movies have very little insight into the complex sources of problems and do absolutely nothing to further the debate towards solutions.

Thanks for telling us the US health care system has some serious problems. You've blown my mind. Clown.

--- D

[Gh0sT]

OMG! ROTFLMAO!

Moore is the kinda guy, that would walk 10 miles to tell a lie, than cross the street to tell the truth.

[Gh0sT]

You can't know that many "Amurkun's" then. My step-mom has venom in her voice whenever the topic of "socialized medicine" comes up.

I waited 12 weeks for a CT scan on this side of the border. I gladly would have paid a small fee to get it done quicker!

Here if you get sick, you eventually get some help. In the US if you get sick and if you can't afford coverage, you don't get help, or you get bills for the rest of your life!

Half, to three-fourths of my family are Americans. I guess they don't count???

[Scudzo_2]

Half, to three-fourths of my family are Americans. I guess they don't count???

Have you had a recent discussion regarding the differences in our health care systems with these family members? Do they all pay for great health care coverage? And likewise, the majority of my family are Yankee's, me included. Thank goodness my Mom moved north in 1970! I hated repeating the Pledge of Allegiance every day of school! I have that fierce patrotism indoctrinated into every US citizen, but having having moved here when I was 9 I find my patrotism is for Canada instead.

[Gh0sT]

Yes, actually I have. Several weeks ago. My family from New Jersey were up recently, making arrangements for my great uncle and aunt to be placed in a home for assisted living. Yes, they pay for their coverage. And while not keen on the idea, consider it the lesser of two evil's. Especially when they hear about the horror stories coming out of Canada regarding wait times, and the high degree of even basic services being cut yearly. We are all in agreement that, it's just a matter of time before Canada goes the way of private health coverage as well.

[Red1]

Yes, actually I have. Several weeks ago. My family from New Jersey were up recently, making arrangements for my great uncle and aunt to be placed in a home for assisted living. Yes, they pay for their coverage. And while not keen on the idea, consider it the lesser of two evil's. Especially when they hear about the horror stories coming out of Canada regarding wait times, and the high degree of even basic services being cut yearly. We are all in agreement that, it's just a matter of time before Canada goes the way of private health coverage as well.

Canada has already gone towards private health care. Trust me...If you can afford to skip the lines there is always an avenue to allow you to do this. I am a dual citizen (Canadian/American), born here fortunately. If I had the choice to opt out of the mandatory "free" health care I would seriously think long and hard about it. The only thing that would keep me from opting out would be my kids. Saying that Canadian health care is better than American health care is like taking the lesser of two evils. Both health care systems are horrible. Yes, we don't have to pay but this means that we have to wait that much longer to receive treatment. It is really a personal choice of whether you want to wait and get treatment free or pay and get it immediately.

I think our doctors should start turning away people that come in with symptoms that can be cured by over the counter drugs unless they are either infants or elderly. Wait times would be significantly reduced just by doing this. Why waste a doctors time with your common cold symptoms? Go out and get some Motrin or something and let the doctor treat real sickness!!!

[Twig]

Don't forget, we are in the GTA, and that's where we have big population growth, especially in 905. That explains longer than normal wait times. Population has grown by leaps and bounds but no new hospitals or hospital beds were added.
There are initiatives to deal with these issues, as well as to inform new immigrants of what health and social services are available to them, so they don't end up in ER. It is a step in the right direction imho.

I believe our system is good (we do need more nurses and doctors). I have witnessed battle with cancer my friend had to endure. Absolutely everything today’s medicine has was available in timely matter, no questions asked. Chemo, radiation, and number of emergency surgeries, lengthy hospital stays... in states this would probably go into seven figures. Unfortunately, for my friend, it all came down to his sloppy family doctor who didn't take things seriously and ignored all the obvious warning signs for way too long. So essentially one lousy GP costs our system ton of money and family lost husband and father. There is no quick fix for lousy GPs in any system or any country.

[Gh0sT]

Canada has already gone towards private health care. Trust me...If you can afford to skip the lines there is always an avenue to allow you to do this. I am a dual citizen (Canadian/American), born here fortunately. If I had the choice to opt out of the mandatory "free" health care I would seriously think long and hard about it. The only thing that would keep me from opting out would be my kids. Saying that Canadian health care is better than American health care is like taking the lesser of two evils. Both health care systems are horrible. Yes, we don't have to pay but this means that we have to wait that much longer to receive treatment. It is really a personal choice of whether you want to wait and get treatment free or pay and get it immediately.

I think our doctors should start turning away people that come in with symptoms that can be cured by over the counter drugs unless they are either infants or elderly. Wait times would be significantly reduced just by doing this. Why waste a doctors time with your common cold symptoms? Go out and get some Motrin or something and let the doctor treat real sickness!!!

Some doctors are already refusing to treat patients, based on their adivce not being heeded in the first place. There was a big article in a Canadian magazine a few years back, citing some doctors are refusing treatment based on the individuals refusal to help themselves FIRST. A doctors diagnoses your ailments, as being directly linking to you being 100 pounds overweight and a chain smoker. SO LOSE WEIGHT AND STOP SMOKING. But they don't want to. They just want the doctor to shell over handfulls of drugs to try and "solve" the problems. Now? Some are refusing them help. And I don't blame them one bit. I wouldn't want my time wasted, either.

[z31tt]

Food for thought, about 50% of the federal budget goes to health care. It has been said beofre but I feel it is worth saying again. The amount we pay in increased taxes for universal health care would pay for a top of the line insurance plan in the US 3 times over. We would be waiting minimal times for tests and specialist appoinments.

I have a very bitter taste in my mouth regarding our health care system at the moment. All these doctors want to do up here is pass you around from buddy to buddy so they can all make a buck off you. In the end, the surgery I was supposed to have within 8-12 months of my accident didn't happen until 18 months after my accident. I will never have full use of my left arm again because our wonderful health care system moves as slow as molasses and there was nothing I could do about it. I had to find the surgeon in the end and speed the process up. They had booked me for the next earliest appoinment with a surgeon who doesn't even do the procedure I needed.

If you break a leg, great. This system will fix you up and get you out. If you need something specialized and with MRI's, get the hell out of this country if you want to get treated right.