Maybe new laws aren't that bad...

[zeekat]

So here's the part that bothers me, this situation escalates from the driver refusing to sign a document to being ordered out of the vehicle, to turn around and put his hands behind his head (guess he was going to be arrested) to be tasered in the back while the driver is walking away from the police officer.

Not knowing the law in Utah and the importance of the driver signing the document, there was no other alternative for the police officer (who has all the driver's information) to issue the ticket and let the system take it from there (court, whatever) without having to take it to this for a speeding ticket.

I can't see justifying any of it.

So new slogan - Argue with a cop in Ontario gets you $5000. In Utah, it's 50,000 volts.

[Rob MacLennan]

So here's the part that bothers me, this situation escalates from the driver refusing to sign a document to being ordered out of the vehicle, to turn around and put his hands behind his head (guess he was going to be arrested) to be tasered in the back while the driver is walking away from the police officer.

Not knowing the law in Utah and the importance of the driver signing the document, there was no other alternative for the police officer (who has all the driver's information) to issue the ticket and let the system take it from there (court, whatever) without having to take it to this for a speeding ticket.

I can't see justifying any of it.

So new slogan - Argue with a cop in Ontario gets you $5000. In Utah, it's 50,000 volts.

There are American jurisdictions in which it is an offence to refuse to sign a ticket; an arrestable offence. I don't know if it is in Utah, but it would appear to be. Were the officers actions appropriate? No. Then again we can't know what was going through his head at the time. He was a lone officer dealing with an unco-operative subject. As I have said, I have less issue with this case than I do the Vancouver one.

How far do you let a "citizen" argue with an officer at the side of the road, when there is a recourse in court? In my mind, not very damned long. Take your ticket. If you think that you are right, and can prove it, then do so.

[zeekat]

Pulled this off a story that seems to answer the question about signing a ticket in Utah:

"If you sign a citation, it's not admitting guilt by any means. It just says you'll promise to appear in court," he said. "If someone refuses to sign the citation, they're refusing to appear in court."


At that point, the arresting officer has the option of taking the driver into custody and to a hearing before the local magistrate, Roden said.
Salt Lake civil rights attorney Brian Barnard agreed police do have the right to arrest a driver who does not sign a speeding ticket.

Refusing to sign a ticket is not a crime under Utah state law. Signing a citation but then failing to show up in court, however, is a class B misdemeanor.

Another option if a driver refuses to sign a ticket is for the officer to "put it in the car in a professional manner and leave it at that," Roden said. The action an officer takes against drivers refusing to sign speeding tickets is different in every department. In Salt Lake County and some of the state's bigger cities, taking a person into custody for refusing to sign a ticket may not be an option because of jail overcrowding issues, Roden said. Most departments also leave it to the discretion of the arresting officer to evaluate all the circumstances of any given situation.

So there were 2 possible courses of action here. The guy is with his wife and baby, explain what will happen for not signing the ticket, hand it to him and let him go.

I know we were not there and are not in that officer's shoes at the moment but did it have to go that far ....

[bitzz]

What i have read on the interweb, so it HAS to be true, that in Utah the signing of the ticket is acknowledgement of your bail rights. You don't sign, you don't get bail, you go to jail... directly to jail, not collecting $200.

Here in Ontario when you sign the ticket you are acknowledging service of the ticket. If you don't sign the officer MUST submit an affidavit of service.

To all you that think all cops are trigger happy cowboys; I came across an interesting statistic that says, North America wide, any police officer involved in a shooting will NOT be a cop within 18 months. They quit or retire.
I found that very interesting.

[Rob MacLennan]

What i have read on the interweb, so it HAS to be true, that in Utah the signing of the ticket is acknowledgement of your bail rights. You don't sign, you don't get bail, you go to jail... directly to jail, not collecting $200.

Here in Ontario when you sign the ticket you are acknowledging service of the ticket. If you don't sign the officer MUST submit an affidavit of service.

To all you that think all cops are trigger happy cowboys; I came across an interesting statistic that says, North America wide, any police officer involved in a shooting will NOT be a cop within 18 months. They quit or retire.
I found that very interesting.

My understanding of the law in Utah is that signing is simply a promise to appear. While not an offence in and of itself (though failure to appear is), the officer is given the latitude to arrest if the ticket is not signed. In large cities you would likely be given a pass, but in smaller jurisdictions the odds of being taken in are 50/50.