Drivers are feeling the weight of Bill 203

[thedoc]

I have traditionally been a staunch supporter of law enforcement, and I still cling to the "most are good guys" approach, but it seems, on the issue of HTA enforcement, every day I'm challenged more and more.

This morning I was doing a nice, safe 110kph on the 400 North, trying to move over to the right so I could let all the (much) faster traffic go by. As I was doing so, an OPP cruiser passed me on the right, not going real fast, but maybe a 120-130. He changed lanes in front of me, no turn signal, (if it wasn't an OPP car I would have said he cut me off, but I'll let it slide out of respect). He then changed lanes again to the left lane, where there were two cars going a bit faster than me, let's call it about 115, both passing another car in the center lane. The officer pulled up behind the two cars, to a distance that I would characterize as aggressive tailgating (especially at highway speeds). Both cars, understandably confused, slowed to 100kph, which prevented them from completing their overtake. They eventually managed to pull into the middle lane again, so the cop could accelerate back up to 120-130 and continue on his way up the left lane.

I thought he might put on his lights, as he might have been heading to an emergency. But he wasn't going all that fast, and the lights never came on. I figure he was just conducting his usual business.

It makes it tough when you see law enforcement speeding and driving aggressively, while professing a zero-tolerance, no-sympathy attitude towards offenders.

--- D

Sometimes I wish I had a camera on my bike. I saw an OPP officer "stunting" pretty badly. He was doing atleast 160 km/hr on the 404, going in and out of lanes doing with out signaling and aggressively tailgating other cars. I tried to catch up by doing 145 so I could get his plate and write a formal complaint as well as call and complain over the phone but he was going way too fast. If its such an emergency why cant they at least turn on the cherries?? Seriously didn't think it would come down to this where the cops are above the speeding law.
Also last week on yonge at 401 entrance saw a city cop turn on the cherries at a red light and went through, but in no hurry, probably at 30 km/hr and then we get to the next light and same thing and then he forgot to turn it off and was doing 50km/ hr. finally realizes he had them on still and turns it off. What tools.

[GSPLover]

It's only obstruction if you're in the left lane... so basically, if you wanna "protest" by doing the speed limit you can't block the entire highway. The left lane is for passing.

Im trying to pass the guy in the middle lane that is also doing 100. Seeing as we are all doing 100 no one can pass anyone. No laws broken,
but A LOT of attention brought to the low speed limits.

[GSPLover]

i. driving a motor vehicle in a manner that indicates an intention to prevent another vehicle from passing,

We are ALL doing 100, no one can pass anyone. Thats the entire point. 100 is the limit. Now if we were doing 80 I can understand.....

[GSPLover]

actually it would work if all lanes are driving at 100km/h beside other cars in the other lanes so that the only way to move over is to speed up.

EXACTLY.

[Rob MacLennan]

... until some officer decided to ticket everyone for limiting speed to less than the average of the cars wanting to overtake.

[AdRath]

... until some officer decided to ticket everyone for limiting speed to less than the average of the cars wanting to overtake.

That would be interesting to argue in court. The officer ticketed you for not letting other cars break the law.

[GSPLover]

... until some officer decided to ticket everyone for limiting speed to less than the average of the cars wanting to overtake.

They would be speeding no? What is worse, a speeder or someone driving at the limit? According to Fatino its the speeder.
You dont really think the above ticket would hold up in court do you?
"Your honor, I gave him a ticket for doing the speed limit in the left hand lane. He was stopping other cars from speeding."

[Duster929]

They would be speeding no? What is worse, a speeder or someone driving at the limit? According to Fatino its the speeder.
You dont really think the above ticket would hold up in court do you?
"Your honor, I gave him a ticket for doing the speed limit in the left hand lane. He was stopping other cars from speeding."

Well, that's the problem, isn't it? You probably would get a ticket, and a conviction for blocking traffic, because everyone, including the courts, know that the actual speed limit is greater than 100kph. The 100kph figure is only relevant in calculating your fine when you are caught exceeding the actual speed limit of about 120kph.

--- D

[Rob MacLennan]

That would be interesting to argue in court. The officer ticketed you for not letting other cars break the law.

Not allowing for variance in speedo readings is the way that I'd pursue it, on the Crown side.

[nfq]

Wheres that video where a few people went on the highway and all did the speed limmit, in a line not letting anyone pass them by breaking the speed limmit? The traffic jam that resulted from that was unreal!

http://digg.com/tech_news/Students_f...iles_and_miles

[Red1]

do you guys think there will be a tipping point where Police will realize there is a problem with the speed limit being too low, accidents are being caused by carelessness (not speed), and that bill 203 breaches our rights...

OR

do you you think Cops are totally and completely unsympathetic about it??


so far, every law enforcement opinion points towards the latter.

The tipping point will be when someone files a lawsuit against the the province for being wrongfully accused of going 50+ and wins a huge settlement for losing their job over this. I can't wait, but unfortunately it won't be till at least the end of next year till people actually take it to court. This bill no matter if you are for it or against it is a breach of all of our rights. They won't get away with taking personal property from you every time THE MAN "suspects" you of being in the wrong with no defence. What rights will they take from us next if we all sit around and let them strip us like Bush has stripped the Americans? Will we all have micro-chips implanted in us to watch our every move? Will they monitor all our phone calls for "suspected" terrorist information? I am going to stop there because I don't want to go on ranting. Anyone who is displeased with this bill needs to write their local government office and let them know your displeasure and that you feel your rights are being infringed.

[Brian P]

I'm not at all surprised that they are catching "ordinary regular people" as opposed to "street racers".

A fairly substantial portion of the automotive/motorcycle enthusiast community is connected to the internet and sees the implications of all this and so we lay low, to the best of our ability (can't account for the "interpretation" issues). 'Course, there are always those who are not paying attention. But in the general public, who are for the most part NOT part of the auto/bike enthusiast community, there is near zero awareness that anything has changed except that they are "getting tough on street racers", which is "not me" (as far as they're concerned), so it's "somebody else's problem" and "sounds good to me" ... until they get busted.

If this keeps happening, you can expect a gradual shift towards opposition of this law.

The statement that most people are not aware of their own bad driving habits is correct, but it's more than just speed that needs attention. Way too many cell phone yappers, non-signalling lane changers, etc out there.

[Blackenese]

Good point. its sad that people out there (or even in here) will have to take the fall for this bill to be fought and overturned. we can do our part to make those mistakes more visible though. we can Rally and petition against it.

Names below aren't local MPs, but thought it was worth reposting.

Well, we're off to an auspicious beginning. Looking through the posts since this sub-forum was opened, it looks like fully 50% of the posts could be deleted for flaming, off-topic responses, and simple abuse. Now, how about we try adding something useful to the mix?

Here are a few bits of contact information, should you wish to send more formal messages to the people who matter:

Hon Dalton McGuinty
dmcguinty.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org
Rm 281, Main Legislative Building
Toronto ON M7A 1A4
Tel 416-325-1941
Fax 416-325-3745

Hon James J. Bradley
jbradley.mpp@liberal.ola.org
Ministry of Transportation
77 Wellesley St W, 3rd Flr, Ferguson Block
Toronto ON M7A 1Z8
Tel 416-235-4686
Toll Free 1-800-268-4686

Hon Rick Bartolucci
rbartolucci.mpp@liberal.ola.org
Ministry of Community Safety and Correctional Services
25 Grosvenor St,18th Flr
Toronto ON M7A 1Y6
Tel 416-325-0408
Fax 416-325-6067
Toll Free 1-866-517-0571

Hon David Caplan
dcaplan.mpp@liberal.ola.org
Ministry of Public Infrastructure Renewal
900 Bay St, 6th Flr, Mowat Block
Toronto ON M7A 1L2
Tel 416-325-0424
Fax 416-325-3013

I'll add more, later. The Opposition Critics don't seem to have been formally named yet, but they can be of great assistance. Once they are, I'll post them here.

[BlueThunder]

Best article I've read about Bill 203 so far.

[GSPLover]

Well, that's the problem, isn't it? You probably would get a ticket, and a conviction for blocking traffic, because everyone, including the courts, know that the actual speed limit is greater than 100kph. The 100kph figure is only relevant in calculating your fine when you are caught exceeding the actual speed limit of about 120kph.

--- D

What? That makes no sense at all. The posted speed limit is 100. 101 and you ARE speeding. Its completely irrelevant that 90% of people do drive at about 120. They are speeding and breaking the law. Dont get me wrong, I think the limit of 100 is ridiculous.

[Rob MacLennan]

What? That makes no sense at all. The posted speed limit is 100. 101 and you ARE speeding. Its completely irrelevant that 90% of people do drive at about 120. They are speeding and breaking the law. Dont get me wrong, I think the limit of 100 is ridiculous.

Please read the post I made regarding the applicable law, back on page 4 of this thread. The "legal speed limit" isn't mentioned in the HTA section regarding giving way for faster traffic and a stunting charge could be levied against people doing so, under the new "racing and stunting" legislation.

[uniongoon]

Thank You Blacknese for the e-mail links. My Union was recently very active in McGuinty's re-election, I just sent him and Bradley my concerns making the police roadside judges. I hope many others do the same.

[eastcoast_gsx]

Thank You Blacknese for the e-mail links. My Union was recently very active in McGuinty's re-election, I just sent him and Bradley my concerns making the police roadside judges. I hope many others do the same.

Thank Rob

[Rob MacLennan]

Thank Rob

[kramer]

What? That makes no sense at all. The posted speed limit is 100. 101 and you ARE speeding. Its completely irrelevant that 90% of people do drive at about 120. They are speeding and breaking the law. Dont get me wrong, I think the limit of 100 is ridiculous.

As Rob already mentioned, the speed limit is not cited in these particular sections of the HTA.

You are required to get out of the way of faster moving vehicles in the left lane. Whether or not they're breaking the speed limit is irrelevant. This law is in place for a reason and everybody should abide by it. In Europe it's commonplace, in most of the US it's commonplace... in most of Canada it's commonplace. Unfortunately it still hasn't caught on with the idiot drivers in and around Toronto. It doesn't help that our traffic police don't put stricter enforcement on this one.

Bottom line is: if you and your buddies all decide to do 100km/h on the 401 in all 3 lanes, you will be charged. It's illegal.