Drivers are feeling the weight of Bill 203



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  1. #1
    ZiN's Avatar
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    Drivers are feeling the weight of Bill 203

    Article on thestar.com today:

    http://www.wheels.ca/article/32623

    Drivers stunned by new speeding law
    'When did this happen?' asks driver of Ontario legislation that kicked in more than a month ago

    Michael Oliveira

    THE CANADIAN PRESS

    Nov 08, 2007

    When Jason Stainthorpe was caught speeding on his way to church last Sunday, he figured the worst he was facing was a hefty ticket and some heat from his fiancee for being late.

    Instead, he wound up stranded by the side of the highway, desperately trying to figure out how to tell her he'd just lost his licence and her SUV for a week, faced a fine that could run into the thousands and might no longer be able to afford his auto insurance.

    He didn't realize it at the time, but doing 50 over the speed limit – 150 km/h on a highway with a posted limit of 100 km/h – meant Stainthorpe had run afoul of a stringent new speeding law in Ontario, billed as a tough measure to combat street racing.

    Stainthorpe joined the more than 1,300 drivers who have been nailed since the new law took effect on Sept. 30, all of whom were off the road for a week and faced the possibility of a staggering fine that ranges between $2,000 and $10,000.

    The ranks of those caught under the new law are hardly the street-racing type: They run the gamut from teenaged girls to elderly men and just about every demographic in between.

    The most common age of offenders has been 21, the average age is 30, and half the charges have been laid against drivers 26 and under. About 13 of the drivers were 65 or older, and 41 were 17 or younger. Almost 84 per cent were male and 16 per cent were female.

    When police lobbied for the new law, they expected the province's most aggressive drivers would get caught and hopefully learn a lesson. They didn't anticipate the number of charges would be so high and represent every segment of the driving public.

    Stainthorpe, a 33-year-old registered nurse, admitted he was speeding, but was furious that police wouldn't let him off with a warning since he had never heard of the new law.

    "I certainly would not have been doing 50 over if I knew this was going to happen to me," he fumed as he waited for police to finish his paperwork on the side of Highway 403 in Mississauga.

    "I have three kids, I have to go to work for a week and they just do not give a crap. They have no sympathy for people and it's unfair and they treat people like crap."

    About an hour after a shell-shocked Stainthorpe tried to come to grips with his dilemma, police stopped another vehicle going 155 km/h on the same highway – this time a 34-year-old woman with three pre-teen kids in the car.

    "Look, I was speeding," said the inconsolable woman, who declined to give her name, as she waited for a taxi.

    "I expected a ticket, and then I was like, `Oh, crap.' I did not expect to have my car towed and have them leave my nephews and I no way to get home."

    She told the officers on the scene she was driving a brand new car, and didn't feel her speed climbing until she heard the sirens behind her.

    Ontario police Sgt. Dennis Mahoney-Bruer has heard that excuse too many times, and after hearing the same thing over and over – he's even watched grown men bawl their eyes out in front of him – his sympathy is wearing thin.

    "A little indication (is) if you're going down the highway and you're passing everybody – hello, chances are you're speeding," Mahoney-Bruer said, before adding that some excuses do tug on his heart strings and make him pause before calling a tow truck.

    "We're all human, we all have a certain amount of feelings . . . but we have that rule now and we're really sticking to it. We really want to get the message to the people out there that you're not going to talk your way out of this."

    The relentless blitz on speeders – dubbed a "shock-and-awe" campaign by provincial police Commissioner Julian Fantino – is likely catching drivers by surprise because people often don't acknowledge that they act dangerously on the road, said Spencer McDonald, the founder of Thinking Driver, a road-safety program designed for people who drive for a living.

    "Culturally we all have a higher opinion of our own driving than it actually is, thinking we're better than we really are," McDonald said.

    "If you go speeding down the road you can say, `Well, I'm not a bad person, or I'm not an idiot, I'm just simply late for a meeting,' but when the guy speeds past you down the road, he's an idiot."

    A forthcoming report from Transport Canada also finds that most drivers don't recognize their own bad habits, and the unfortunate power they have to kill with their car, said Paul Boase of the Canadian Association of Road Safety Professionals.

    "For a very long time, speeding – while illegal – was not really treated as a problem," Boase said.

    "When people thought about speed and risk, they thought about the risk of getting caught, but the real risk is hitting someone."

    And because the new law is classified as a street-racing offence, Boase said many drivers don't believe they're being targeted by police and think they can continue to speed at will.

    "There's definitely this perception that street racing is a real serious problem and we ought to hit those people hard, but drivers say, `That's not me, even if I'm doing 50 over that's not me because I'm not racing, I'm just trying to get home."'

    There's no doubt some of the offenders are habitual speeders, but it's also likely that some of them were simply unlucky, and were caught using bad judgment that may not reflect their normal driving style, McDonald said.

    "Most people are sane, responsible, law-abiding drivers, but they will – when placed under stressful or difficult circumstances – make inappropriate decisions and expose themselves to excessive risk."

    While an average of 35 drivers continue to get nabbed every day – and that average has dipped only slightly since the law took effect – many have wised up and are now remaining just below the 150 km/h threshold, Mahoney-Bruer said.

    "The last two night shifts when I went out exclusively looking for 50 km/h and above I had none," he said. "The highest speed I had was 48 over, so definitely the knowledge is getting out there."

    Brian Lawrie, president of Pointts, which bills itself as Canada's original and most successful traffic court agency, said the new law may bring him more business, but he considers it a bad idea that could cost someone their job because of human error or an equipment malfunction.

    "It sounds good to everybody that doing 50 over should be punished right on the spot, but where does the presumption of innocence go when you do that?" Lawrie said.

    "When we finally find out that . . . the person is found not guilty, then who gives them their job back?"

    Ontario's new transportation minister, Jim Bradley, said he has no qualms about the law and rejects the idea that most people don't know about it.

    "I see signs on the highway about it, it's been in the newspaper, it's been on the radio, it's been on television," he said.

    "I think people know. It's an excuse that people try to use, and it's never an excuse not to know what the law is."

  2. #2
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    Re: Drivers are feeling the weight of Bill 203

    Stainthorpe, a 33-year-old registered nurse, admitted he was speeding, but was furious that police wouldn't let him off with a warning since he had never heard of the new law.

    "I certainly would not have been doing 50 over if I knew this was going to happen to me," he fumed as he waited for police to finish his paperwork on the side of Highway 403 in Mississauga.

    "I have three kids, I have to go to work for a week and they just do not give a crap. They have no sympathy for people and it's unfair and they treat people like crap."
    What cave has he been in?? And just because he said he was on his way to church (yeah sure ), that means it's ok to knowingly break the law by driving WELL above the posted limit? Oh! The best part is how he is shocked (!!) when the law enforcement officers aren't sympathetic of him???! HAH!! What an idiot. I'm glad that brain-dead, oblivious people like this are being taken off the road for awhile. See ya!! (...and I hope I never end up under his care at whatever hospital it is that he works at!)

    (Aside from the above opinion, yes, I realize the instant seizure of the vehicle violates the charter...yadda yadda...)

  3. #3

    Re: Drivers are feeling the weight of Bill 203

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenerator View Post
    What cave has he been in?? And just because he said he was on his way to church (yeah sure ), that means it's ok to knowingly break the law by driving WELL above the posted limit? Oh! The best part is how he is shocked (!!) when the law enforcement officers aren't sympathetic of him???! HAH!! What an idiot. I'm glad that brain-dead, oblivious people like this are being taken off the road for awhile. See ya!! (...and I hope I never end up under his care at whatever hospital it is that he works at!)

    (Aside from the above opinion, yes, I realize the instant seizure of the vehicle violates the charter...yadda yadda...)

    Yup yup yup who cares what he says, we need to get these street racing church goers and scoccer moms off the road! I feel safer out there already....People should soon stop dying in car related accidents all togehter, then the world will be perfect.....

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    Re: Drivers are feeling the weight of Bill 203

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenerator View Post
    (...and I hope I never end up under his care at whatever hospital it is that he works at!)
    So because he speeds, he sucks at his job??

    You need to lay off the glass pipe

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    Re: Drivers are feeling the weight of Bill 203

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenerator View Post
    What cave has he been in?? And just because he said he was on his way to church (yeah sure ), that means it's ok to knowingly break the law by driving WELL above the posted limit? Oh! The best part is how he is shocked (!!) when the law enforcement officers aren't sympathetic of him???! HAH!! What an idiot. I'm glad that brain-dead, oblivious people like this are being taken off the road for awhile. See ya!! (...and I hope I never end up under his care at whatever hospital it is that he works at!)

    (Aside from the above opinion, yes, I realize the instant seizure of the vehicle violates the charter...yadda yadda...)
    The average person busy with jobs and kids don't pay much attention to anything else. There are people who don't watch the news or read a newspaper and have absolutely no clue about what is going on in the world. Consider yourself an exception.

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    Re: Drivers are feeling the weight of Bill 203

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenerator View Post
    What cave has he been in?? And just because he said he was on his way to church (yeah sure ), that means it's ok to knowingly break the law by driving WELL above the posted limit? Oh! The best part is how he is shocked (!!) when the law enforcement officers aren't sympathetic of him???! HAH!! What an idiot. I'm glad that brain-dead, oblivious people like this are being taken off the road for awhile. See ya!! (...and I hope I never end up under his care at whatever hospital it is that he works at!)

    (Aside from the above opinion, yes, I realize the instant seizure of the vehicle violates the charter...yadda yadda...)
    Wow. Brain-dead? Oblivious? Idiot? Not worthy of sympathy? You're glad?

    Have you ever made a mistake before or temporarily exercised bad judgement? Did that make you brain-dead, bad at your job, unworthy of sympathy?

    Or maybe you've just never made a mistake before.

    When did our society and law enforcement become so cruel? A woman and three pre-teen nephews stranded at the side of the highway, and someone who doesn't even know them is going "Hah!!" and "See ya!!" on the internet. Impressive.

    --- D

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    Re: Drivers are feeling the weight of Bill 203

    Quote Originally Posted by eastcoast_gsx View Post
    So because he speeds, he sucks at his job??

    You need to lay off the glass pipe
    LOL...strange way to interpret what I said, but anyway, no, I meant because he's oblivious to what's going on in real life. This bill has been all over the news for several months and it's amazing that people still aren't aware of it (and find it okay regardless to go 50-over).

    I love it when I get insulted because someone didn't understand my point..

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    Re: Drivers are feeling the weight of Bill 203

    Quote Originally Posted by vkhamphi View Post
    There are people who don't watch the news or read a newspaper and have absolutely no clue about what is going on in the world.
    Typically, those people are called americans.


    If you try to make it idiot-proof, someone will just make a better idiot....



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    Re: Drivers are feeling the weight of Bill 203

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenerator View Post
    I love it when I get insulted because someone didn't understand my point..
    NP... thats what we are here for

    PS: we know because we are involved... maybe after a day of hard work (that he sucks at) he could care less what fatso Wooley and ****head Fantino have to say. Maybe his family and job keeps him so busy that he doesn't have time to be tuned in to what is happening with GVMT and Police powers... maybe that is why they get away with what they do

  10. #10

    Re: Drivers are feeling the weight of Bill 203

    I hate this topic. driving 50 over doesn't mean your being unsafe or excerising lack of judgement. Just because your driving 150 it doesn't mean that your may hit someone and kill them. Start train people to drive better then worry about the speed their driving at. SPEED DOESN'T KILL!, lack of driving skills does! Can someone please tell me why it only takes someone 45mins to do a test on the computer to get a license which allows them to control a 4000 lbs automobile. Places in Europe drive much faster than we do and it's not a problem, but wait........that's different because they have much more training and are better drivers for it.
    Last edited by strictlye; 11-08-2007 at 10:19 AM.
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    Re: Drivers are feeling the weight of Bill 203

    do you guys think there will be a tipping point where Police will realize there is a problem with the speed limit being too low, accidents are being caused by carelessness (not speed), and that bill 203 breaches our rights...

    OR

    do you you think Cops are totally and completely unsympathetic about it??


    so far, every law enforcement opinion points towards the latter.

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    Re: Drivers are feeling the weight of Bill 203

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenerator View Post
    LOL...strange way to interpret what I said, but anyway, no, I meant because he's oblivious to what's going on in real life. This bill has been all over the news for several months and it's amazing that people still aren't aware of it (and find it okay regardless to go 50-over).
    Do you think it would be a law if everyone knew the pin heads in gov't and Fantino were putting it in? I would doubt it very much.
    If you try to make it idiot-proof, someone will just make a better idiot....



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    Re: Drivers are feeling the weight of Bill 203

    Maybe bill 203 will eventually result in more accurate highway speed limits. If the limit was 120 then the new rules would not take effect until 170.... who knows.

    100 on a light highway (as the 407, or 401 in light traffic) is too slow.

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    Re: Drivers are feeling the weight of Bill 203

    I find it hard to believe that anybody does not know about the new law. However some beople still have their head in the sand. At what point do you not realize that you are passing (almost) every other car on the road. And as for people with kids in the car...they deserve the new penalty.
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    Re: Drivers are feeling the weight of Bill 203

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackenese View Post
    do you guys think there will be a tipping point where Police will realize there is a problem with the speed limit being too low, accidents are being caused by carelessness (not speed), and that bill 203 breaches our rights...

    OR

    do you you think Cops are totally and completely unsympathetic about it??


    so far, every law enforcement opinion points towards the latter.
    Cops a sworn to enforce our laws, they do not set them. They do (luckily) have the ability to use their discretion when laying a charge.
    Its the gov't that needs to up the speed limits. The highways are designed and built to handle speeds above 100 km/h but that will not happen because of loss of revenue.
    If you try to make it idiot-proof, someone will just make a better idiot....



  16. #16

    Re: Drivers are feeling the weight of Bill 203

    Quote Originally Posted by eastcoast_gsx View Post
    Maybe bill 203 will eventually result in more accurate highway speed limits. If the limit was 120 then the new rules would not take effect until 170.... who knows.

    100 on a light highway (as the 407, or 401 in light traffic) is too slow.
    Wheres that video where a few people went on the highway and all did the speed limmit, in a line not letting anyone pass them by breaking the speed limmit? The traffic jam that resulted from that was unreal!

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    Re: Drivers are feeling the weight of Bill 203

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackenese View Post
    do you guys think there will be a tipping point where Police will realize there is a problem with the speed limit being too low, accidents are being caused by carelessness (not speed), and that bill 203 breaches our rights...

    OR

    do you you think Cops are totally and completely unsympathetic about it??


    so far, every law enforcement opinion points towards the latter.
    What I think, is that given the difficulty of the job they are asked to do and the "catch and release" nature of the judicial process, police are glad to have another tool in their arsenal. If such a big deal wasn't being made of it by politicians and wannabes like Fantino, then officers would be able to exercise discretion regarding this law.

    If you were weaving through heavy traffic at 80 Kmh over the limit without signalling, while trying to keep up with your buddy, you'd both get nailed. If you were doing 50 over on an empty 401 between Kitchener and London, at 3:00am, you'd likely get a warning especially if you were suitably contrite about it.

    In the past I've seen a group of 10 or more riders get stopped for going significantly over the limit, to the point of knee-down in corners, and get let off with a warning by OPP, on more than one occasion. I've received warnings for things that would now get my vehicle towed. The biggest thing lost with this law, is an officer's discretion. Most are good guys.
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  18. #18
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    Re: Drivers are feeling the weight of Bill 203

    Well after speaking to a friend in law enforcement, currently... The police couldn't give a damn what your reason for going that fast is or anything else they find you doing under the new stunting laws. Bottom line is they all really want to be given a reason to hand you a ticket for stunting. Something about sending a message and all that junk.

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    Re: Drivers are feeling the weight of Bill 203

    This is my favourite line...

    "The last two night shifts when I went out exclusively looking for 50 km/h and above I had none," he said. "The highest speed I had was 48 over, so definitely the knowledge is getting out there."

    So police are out trying to hunt down these menaces that do 50 (which equals instand death of babies we all know) but is reasured that people are getting the message of safety because they are now doing 48 over. lol What a joke. Everytime an officer speaks they are making this law look more and more like the joke it is.

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    Re: Drivers are feeling the weight of Bill 203

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyP636 View Post
    Wheres that video where a few people went on the highway and all did the speed limmit, in a line not letting anyone pass them by breaking the speed limmit? The traffic jam that resulted from that was unreal!
    A protest of this nature sure would draw attention to the speed limits and just how low they are. I'd be into it.
    If you try to make it idiot-proof, someone will just make a better idiot....



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