How to defend yourself?

[Brian P]

Enough complaining. What do we need to do to protect ourselves from the HTA amendments?

Riding safely and in a non-attention-getting manner helps, but it is not enough, particularly if you have a "high visibility" vehicle, and any sport bike (or visibly modified car) counts as that: http://www.toronto-subaru-club.com/f...d.php?t=105836

I am more concerned about the possibility of being unfairly tagged by this law, than I am about crashing or *legitimately* getting tagged. This is an absurd situation for this supposedly democratic society, but it is what it is.

Stuff to think about.

No matter what else you do, RIDING SAFELY AND IN A NON-ATTENTION-GETTING MANNER is the number one thing that needs to be done. Some of the things below could be used to convict you as well, so exercising good judgment when riding is a must.

GPS with data logging capability?

On-board video ... Helmet cam, or a fixed camera pointing forward, fixed camera pointing backward? One thing to remember here is that if the camera has the speedometer in view, original-equipment speedometers read artificially high. It's complicated to explain that in court: "Yes, sir, my speedometer showed 92 km/h, but when accounting for the 15% error it's really only 80 km/h" ... If the speedo is in view, it's better to get a Yellow Box speedo recalibrator and get the speedo reading the correct speed - one less thing to explain in court. Or don't have the speedo in view, and rely on the GPS, or no GPS nor speedo and rely on your behaviour on camera. I'm leaning towards helmet camera, since then the camera sees what I see, including instrument panel with the turn-signal indicator in view indicating signalled lane changes (which they ALL are). Also if there ends up being a vehicle-seizure situation, I can document the condition of the vehicle before seizure (and if there's the slightest scratch afterward ...).

CB radio? Truckers use these a lot ... I've never owned one. It might be useful on the highway if people broadcast where "smokey" is. It might be even more useful if a LOT of people start getting CB radios. Is there one that will fit on a bike? Portable, so I can transfer it between bikes and the cage?

Permanent mounting to the bike, or not? I would rather hang onto any such evidence rather than have it be seized along with the vehicle, should anything ever happen. What are our rights when pulled over? Honestly I do not know. I've had the odd speeding ticket and it's never been an issue, but with this new law, it is now.

Legality of the bike ... anything that could be interpreted as being "modified for racing" could be a problem. Stock muffler, stock lighting, stock license plate mounting, all good there. I might have to put the stock front brake lines back on just to be sure, since that's the only thing non-cosmetic that isn't stock.

You can probably gather that if I ever get tagged by this law ... it's lawsuit time, in a BIG way. I may ride a sport bike, but I'm a 40 year old professional. If I have the evidence to exonerate myself ... Bring it on. There will be hell to pay later.

It is a sad state of affairs in this country when someone in my position has to be concerned about police intrusion into my life.

Any other ideas?

[Rob MacLennan]

If at all possible, it is advisable to obtain information on independent witnesses to any event that might result in a charge. Friends don't help, nor do relatives. You need to have the report of someone who doesn't know you, for it to be given all due weight in court.

[eastcoast_gsx]

If at all possible, it is advisable to obtain information on independent witnesses to any event that might result in a charge. Friends don't help, nor do relatives. You need to have the report of someone who doesn't know you, for it to be given all due weight in court.

That always made me curious, if they take an oath then why does their story mean less?

The prosecution can call your friends and family to testify against you, but they don't hold any weight when it is for you?

Damn, justice... so confusing

[D]

kinda sad day when you got to do all this to ensure and prove you are NOT guilty.

They would probably try to find a way to ban the cb radios or create some law for warning each other about Police location (interfering with the law or something)

[bmo]

Advanced warning about police presence is already illegal.

[D]

Advanced warning about police presence is already illegal.

what do you mean? the flashing of headlights???

interesting how the Suzuki's have the button to FLASH (the high beams) to pass a car WHICH was approved by transport Canada.

If it's illegal to flash then why approve such a device. Just an observation.

[Brian P]

Advanced warning about police presence is already illegal.

Nowhere in the HTA is there any such infraction written in black and white. It is not illegal to own and operate a CB radio in a vehicle. Thousands of truckers use them, so there is no way that's going to change. As for what's said over the CB, it's public domain, but it's up to the prosecution to prove anything you are charged with ...

I've found that CB radios are pretty cheap. I'm probably going to buy one and use it in the car for a while to see if it's useful in the real world.

Back to the other stuff. GPS units are all over the place and it seems like all the good ones can record your path and speed. Helmet-cam? Any suggestions?

[eastcoast_gsx]

As for what's said over the CB, it's public domain, but it's up to the prosecution to prove anything you are charged with ...

Unless there was some kind of high-tech sting... I would guess that it is a practical impossibility to link CB traffic to a particular unit.

[D]

Nowhere in the HTA is there any such infraction written in black and white. It is not illegal to own and operate a CB radio in a vehicle. Thousands of truckers use them, so there is no way that's going to change. As for what's said over the CB, it's public domain, but it's up to the prosecution to prove anything you are charged with ...

I've found that CB radios are pretty cheap. I'm probably going to buy one and use it in the car for a while to see if it's useful in the real world.

Back to the other stuff. GPS units are all over the place and it seems like all the good ones can record your path and speed. Helmet-cam? Any suggestions?

What if they use your own "evidence" against you. i.e. take your GPS, pull up the log to see your max speeds and locations

If they stay on this path and this law becomes national, I can see them getting Transport Canada to have a mandatory speed logger so they can download to use as proof against you.

You know, some would say SLOW DOWN, stay in your lane, FOLLOW the law...why doesn't it seem like it's going to work this way?

[D]

Mount a good quality camera on your bike (front view including speedo, time & date) with recorder and somehow manipulate your speedo to display 25% less than actual speed. Get your bike speedo calibrated every 6 months from some shop under the table. You get busted for speeding, you bring into court your bike camera/recorder & speedo calibration certs.
They're not going to spend the time & money to check all this crap out for a speeding ticket.
Maybe far fetched but I'd give it a swing.

good ideas...lol

BUT the damage would have been done
1. $2000 min. upfront "fees" to get your vehicle back.
2. mark on your record
3. insurance goes UP

[Brian P]

D, there's no question that on-board GPS and video data can be used against you. Obviously this means you had better BEHAVE. Right now, my concern is not MY behaviour, it is being accused of what someone *else* did. And my concern is not so much the speed, but the interpretations about unsafe lane changes, etc.

wtf2, could you delete your post, please, we do NOT want to be giving people too many ideas like that ...

[Brian P]

good ideas...lol

BUT the damage would have been done
1. $2000 min. upfront "fees" to get your vehicle back.
2. mark on your record
3. insurance goes UP

First time someone with money gets their vehicle impounded, and has direct irrefutable proof that the seizure was not warranted ... LAWSUIT ... followed by constitutional challenge ... and bye bye, seizure law. I am not concerned with paying the impound recovery fee in a circumstance like that ... I'm not exactly a starving student ... My objective is partly to protect myself and partly to get the unconstitutional portions of Bill 203 REVOKED.

[wtf2]

Sneaky sneaky, you should come over to the dark side.

I do agree with you that it's only a matter of time before they sieze the Ferrari of a ****** off adept lawyer with sufficient funds, then watch the s*** fly.
Besides, you could use that scenario to pressure the local government into revoking the law if the civil suit is too much for the municipality to bear.
You could do it multiple ways. Instead of cash ask for the law to be revoked.. matter of fact, ask for both.

[Brian P]

hehe

[Rob MacLennan]

First time someone with money gets their vehicle impounded, and has direct irrefutable proof that the seizure was not warranted ... LAWSUIT ... followed by constitutional challenge ... and bye bye, seizure law. I am not concerned with paying the impound recovery fee in a circumstance like that ... I'm not exactly a starving student ... My objective is partly to protect myself and partly to get the unconstitutional portions of Bill 203 REVOKED.

Elsewhere I asked a criminal defence lawyer his opinion regarding a possible challenge to this law. My gut had already told me what you hint at here, and what he said; any challenge prior to a not guilty finding on such a charge would be premature. It'll be months before anything can happen, based on usual court backlogs.

[eastcoast_gsx]

For anyone looking for a cheap but good GPS unit.

http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applicatio...IN#detailspecs

Nice Writeup:

http://www.gpsmagazine.com/2007/03/r...t_loox_n10.php

[Red1]

For anyone looking for a cheap but good GPS unit.

http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applicatio...IN#detailspecs

Nice Writeup:

http://www.gpsmagazine.com/2007/03/r...t_loox_n10.php

Thanks for the links. I think I will pick one of these up soon.

[Fingolfin]

question:

how does an independant witness work?
do they have to be present at the time of the speeding?

I mean, what an individual see's me getting pulled over and decides not to stop cause they have to be somewhere or whatever other reason.

I find them later and we get to talking about what happens. They agree to come to trial to testify in my favour.

What would happen?

[Rob MacLennan]

question:

how does an independant witness work?
do they have to be present at the time of the speeding?

I mean, what an individual see's me getting pulled over and decides not to stop cause they have to be somewhere or whatever other reason.

I find them later and we get to talking about what happens. They agree to come to trial to testify in my favour.

What would happen?

If you were lucky enough to snag a license plate and track the person down, or a passing delivery truck and get the number off the side, then that witness would be given due weight for the amount of the incident that he or she witnessed.

Keep in mind that the person would be testifying under oath and could be charged with perjury, if false testimony was given

[Fingolfin]

If you were lucky enough to snag a license plate and track the person down, or a passing delivery truck and get the number off the side, then that witness would be given due weight for the amount of the incident that he or she witnessed.

Keep in mind that the person would be testifying under oath and could be charged with perjury, if false testimony was given

lie to the government... I would never