crazy chase

[jibbijib]

So I wonder what's being done with repeat offenders that drink and drive?

Or what strict force is being taken to hit and runners?

What about the drivers that can't drive to save their life?

Is it right for people to obtain a licence for free because their relative works at the MTO?

How come there are more deaths because of someones mistake, than because of street racing?

Who voted these people into government? Who is watching our government? Who should be watching our government? Who should be in our government? What happened to democracy? What happened to peoples value of life? What happened, to our freedom?

Democracy is for the people, by the people. It's time that people took a stand. Unfortunately, most people are way to busy because of what they have to do to keep their head above water, but that doesn't mean those of us who have the time, can't do something about our values. Who said that we have to be in a government appointed party or anything? We can do what we want, it's our lives!

I don't condone breaking the law. But making the law is what I condone. There are some laws that are outrageous, and shouldn't be laws. But we let it happen. So why not take a stand, and actually do something? We can't trust people in government, they're making their life, they don't give a **** about the rest of us.

The squeaky wheel gets the grease.

[Speedtospare]

Jib, remember politicans put these laws into place to make themselves look better and to score good with the voters. This law was never about saving lives or making it better for the people, its about politics.

Politicans know nothing other thn what there told by there PR people to say and do. Its free advertising.

[Alien_Soldier]

YES FINALLY!

For all you guys who think this is sensationalized, I've been driving and riding on the 400 all summer long going to Barrie and back to Toronto for work, and I can that this is definately a good thing! Have a gone over 150km/h? Yes, but it was on the track, there's no need to be doing that speed, especially with some of the people on the road who think everything is need for speed.

To all those people who think this is bull, go ahead you've been taking chances speeding before, this just sets the bar higher, I for one am happy to see this law.

[PHIERCE]

no appeal is bs this is becoming more of communist country every day


now we have no choice but to flip the plate and boot it !

[need4speed]

the new rules are sorta ghey (instant impounding with no appeal..) but what really burns me is how those f*k'n politicians never really seem to get it.... i think the goal is a good one.. making roads safer.. but all they are doing is sensationalizing speeding and creating this fiction that punk kids on bikes and ricers driving pimped out 100hp civics and yuppies pushing their m's are the main root of all the carnage when the real danger are f*king @sshats that talk on their cell phones or those f*king sh*tf*cks that drive 20 below the speed limit or f*king f*cks that don't realize that you have to get up to speed in order to merge properly onto a 400 series highway... those are the f*ckers that make the roads dangerous... f*ck.....

[johnnn]

This country is in no way becomming a communist state. In fact, I find it quite absurd to compare the opression of the hwy traffic act to the million or so people killed by Stalin. Canada as a country is basically sound, the problem is within the province. Our provincial government is deteriorating into a sycohphantic organization who use special interest groups to keep themselves in power. The Ontario government is not communist but totalitarian dictating their will on the people. Thomas Jefferson said that "when the government fears the people you have liberty but when the people fear the government you have tyrany. I can't really point my finger at one of the provincial politicians and say "your a tyrant" so I just stand by and say that the entire provincial government is tyranical.

Now back to the item at hand. First off, the police are not going to be going around all willy nilly writting these tickets. You know how much paperwork is involved with this crap? They would be doing a few hours just to have the car impounded. Many of these 50km/h over charges will be reduced to 49 over and from there probably reduced in court.

I am not going to go out and try to get a ticket under this new act. I would like to avoid the hassle and just go about doing my school work. But if I do get caught doing a wheelie at 51km/h over the limit with a midgit in my trunk while not paying due care and attention to the road, and my bike/car is subsequently towed and impounded, I will fight it. I will argue that since my posessions were impounded before I was convicted that this shows implies guilt and i can therefore not have a fair trial. I will then sue them for violating my charter of rights gaurentees. I can tell you right now, the first smart person who gets one of these tickets will hire a good lawyer, will get off and will probably make a decent amount of money when the supreme court finds that the persons gaurenteed freedoms were violated. After that, this entire highway traffic act will either be scrapped or overhauled. The only time the police are allowed to impound your vehicle is if you are caught drunk and have no one to move it or it is unfit for the road.

I have already written to a few talk radio hosts about this very issue. I emphasized two key points. That the peanalties are too severe when compared with other violations and that the impounding/suspension thing violates our charter and can lead to government opression.

In my e-mails I demonstated the absurdity of the new act's punishments. I explained that theoretically, if I were to get charged for doing a wheelie I could go into court, say I was drunk and plead down to impaired driving. Apparently speeding, wheelies, endos, driving with someone in your trunk etc etc etc is more dangerous than impaired driving.

I discussed the problem of the impounding. The problem is that it leads to other areas of government inquisition into our lives and that usually leads to forced conformity.

Now I rememebr someone saying that the cops could write bogus tickets for doing 50km/h over. I wouldn't worry too much about that because quite frankly, for the charges to stick in court they are going to need better evidence than "I clocked him". It's going to have to be a printed out radar display....that can open a whole other can of worms for them such as training of the officer, equipment set up and inspection etc etc etc. Basically the more severe the punishment, the more people will fight, the harder it will be to prove.

[johnnn]

no appeal is bs this is becoming more of communist country every day


now we have no choice but to flip the plate and boot it !

this is exactly it. This is going to cause more people to take off from the cops. I got a ticket yesterday for no insurance...not no insurance papers...the cop was a dick head. He kept asking "are you sure you have insurance? I don't believe you, how could you get insurance on a 1000cc ss". I told him cause im rich and it's none of his damn business! But in reality, if I had no insurance would I have stopped ? pffffffft

[witchunter]

off with their heads.

[deckard]

-where are they going to store all those vehicles?
-there is going to more than a few more vehicles going up for sale at the police auctions from now on.
-ever try riding only 20-30 over on a sportbike?
-seems like a total waste of time of the bike and maybe the rider's ability
-anyone want to buy a sportbike?
-http://www.gtamotorcycle.com/vbforum/showthread.php?t=40138
-downgrading to a much smaller, slower one
-riding in Ontario is going to be an expensive undertaking I don't care how careful you are with the throttle
-watch your speed out there everyone and ride safe!

[cbranje]

I think by far the biggest issue of this law should be the no appeal part . . . isn't that sort of the basis for our entire legal system.

What if a cop doesn't like how you looked at him, he can charge you with 50 over take your car, fine you 2g's and you have no possible recourse.

This law won't stand past the first charge, its a law suit waiting to happen.

Carmen

[DUPPY]

Dam I was hopping to hold on to my GS500F for at least another year, but hell it only hits 180km\h. I need something a little quicker if I'm going to run, it would be interesting to compare the penalties for falling to stop VS. Racing. I really don't see how the roads are going to be any safer, caggers don't care to learn the basic rules of the road, there definitely not going to pay attention to a new law. I'm in for a good old protest, hell it's election time and I don't hear a single politician standing up for the peoples rights.

Flight

249.1 (1) Every one commits an offence who, operating a motor vehicle while being pursued by a peace officer operating a motor vehicle, fails, without reasonable excuse and in order to evade the peace officer, to stop the vehicle as soon as is reasonable in the circumstances.

Punishment

(2) Every one who commits an offence under subsection (1)
(a) is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years; or

(b) is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction.

*EDIT* I believe the summary conviction is a fine up to $1000.

Sounds like you should think about keeping at least half a tank of gas at all times.

[DUPPY]

For the Fifty over Crowd

Mandatory order of prohibition — street racing

(3.1) When an offender is convicted or discharged under section 730 of an offence committed under subsection 249.4(1), the court that sentences the offender shall, in addition to any other punishment that may be imposed for that offence, make an order prohibiting the offender from operating a motor vehicle on any street, road, highway or other public place
(a) for a first offence, during a period of not more than three years plus any period to which the offender is sentenced to imprisonment, and not less than one year;

(b) for a second offence, during a period of not more than five years plus any period to which the offender is sentenced to imprisonment, and not less than two years; and

(c) for each subsequent offence, during a period of not less than three years plus any period to which the offender is sentenced to imprisonment.

[DUPPY]

Another thing, if your charged with street racing and flight, more likely then not they'll throw in this charge too

Dangerous operation of motor vehicle while street racing

249.4 (1) Everyone commits an offence who, while street racing, operates a motor vehicle in a manner described in paragraph 249(1)(a).

Punishment

(2) Everyone who commits an offence under subsection (1)
(a) is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years; or

(b) is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction.

[DUPPY]

double post

[DUPPY]

CORRECTION, this is what's the HTA

Power of police officer to stop vehicle

216. (1) A police officer, in the lawful execution of his or her duties and responsibilities, may require the driver of a motor vehicle to stop and the driver of a motor vehicle, when signalled or requested to stop by a police officer who is readily identifiable as such, shall immediately come to a safe stop. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 216 (1).

Offence

(2) Every person who contravenes subsection (1) is guilty of an offence and on conviction is liable, subject to subsection (3),

(a) to a fine of not less than $1,000 and not more than $10,000;

(b) to imprisonment for a term of not more than six months; or

(c) to both a fine and imprisonment. 1999, c. 13, s. 1 (1).


Escape by flight

(3) If a person is convicted of an offence under subsection (2) and the court is satisfied on the evidence that the person wilfully continued to avoid police when a police officer gave pursuit,

(a) the person is liable to a fine of not less than $5,000 and not more than $25,000, instead of the fine described in clause (2) (a);

(b) the court shall make an order imprisoning the person for a term of not less than 14 days and not more than six months, instead of the term described in clause (2) (b); and

(c) the court shall make an order suspending the person’s driver’s licence,

(i) for a period of five years, unless subclause (ii) applies, or

(ii) for a period of not less than 10 years, if the court is satisfied on the evidence that the person’s conduct or the pursuit resulted in the death of or bodily harm to any person. 1999, c. 13, s. 1 (1).

[Bandit Bill]

-where are they going to store all those vehicles?

Lots of new contracts awarded to paving companies this summer, is my guess.

-there is going to more than a few more vehicles going up for sale at the police auctions from now on.

I think the stipulation of-court seized vehicles, is that they are to be crushed, or rendered useless. Though, once the government sniffs out how much money they are wasting by crushing a commodity, i'm sure they'll try to amend the law to allow sales, if the law hasn't been legally challenged successfully yet. They'll peer over the border to the US, and see what the various law enforcement agencies do with seized vehicles that suit their operations, as well as the revenue for their budgets that can be made in selling them off. Thats an opportunity that the government won't pass up.

-ever try riding only 20-30 over on a sportbike?.

Yes, it's possible. I've seen this argument before, and with due respect, it's an invalid argument. Sportbikes generally are loosely based on a racing design counterpart .. designed for the track. Riders have to compensate for the limitations of the law and the street environment, rather than the street environment accomodating the performance potential of the vehicle - before or after this law.

It becomes not a vehicle performance issue - but an issue of operator care and control. If you can't control the vehicle to the legal limitations, it may be time to downgrade or get out of the sport entirely. Not fair, but that is the reality.

I'm not commenting specifically towards you deckard - i've seen this comment elsewhere.

I see an entreprenuerial market opening up for importing used 2nd hand BHP restrictor kits from the UK - those whose control of the throttle hand is threatening their own legal and financial well-being, could still retain their cool looking 600 or 1000cc Sportbike, but install the kit and it becomes a mellowed down, docile, street-compliant non-threat to the pocket-book

-seems like a total waste of time of the bike and maybe the rider's ability.

It is. A sportbike on the street has always been an under-achiever, if it needs to be legally compliant - before, or after this particular law. I've never done it myself, but others say the only way to see true rider skills improvement is on the track. Like it or not, this law is incentive for people to explore that option, at least until it's struck down or modified to something more reasonable to the People that voted the government in.

-riding in Ontario is going to be an expensive undertaking I don't care how careful you are with the throttle

It's always been an expensive hobby in my experience - in recent years it's gotten more expensive, and now it's set to get more expensive still, for those unlucky to fall foul of the law. I don't agree with much of this law either - it's a McGuinty/Bryant electioneering knee-jerk that probably won't survive a legal challenge sometiime early in the next Provincial session, but the reality is, it is the reality for now. Adapt, or for your own legal or financial safety, get out of the sport or downgrade, like you seem to be doing now.

Quebec got nailed with the insurance racket at the beginning of the season, which caused a lot of riders to leave the sport because it was no longer financial viable.. the same is going to happen with Ontario. Unless this law is struck down soon, I suspect that this is just the end of the beginning of the next 'motorcycle recession' in Ontario. High insurance costs have already been slowing down the potential rate of growth for the past few years.

Sorry for the long reply... Zzzzz

[rizvi]

I think by far the biggest issue of this law should be the no appeal part . . . isn't that sort of the basis for our entire legal system.

What if a cop doesn't like how you looked at him, he can charge you with 50 over take your car, fine you 2g's and you have no possible recourse.

This law won't stand past the first charge, its a law suit waiting to happen.

Carmen

Exactly.

There was a video (posted on this site) of a cop in the U.S threatening a driver who is parked on private property with BS charges. The driver of the car had a camera that recorded the whole thing.

The basic thing is cops are humans. They are good and bad. Its not hard to find one who is sexist and/or racist and/or classist and/or ageist, and/or homophobic and/or an ignoramus. This new law is pure garbage.

Welcome to Communist Canada - we are slowly getting rid of the court system.

[SLIM]

OMFG, i've got less than 11 hours to live free!!!!!!!!!!

[lil red bird]

for all the folks on here who have been bitching about his law I have been riding a 1100 since 02 an thus far have been able to keep it under the level of 50 km over the limit for th most part. As for those with cars may i suggest you set your speed control at 100 kph and relax

[FiReSTaRT]

I'm sorry LRB but I'm not going to sit while the provincial government is a**-raping the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.