no 6th gear?

[dori]

(bike: yamaha xs400 seca 1982)
Hi,
The manual and the gearbox casing both state that my bike has 6 gears, yet... I only seem to have 5. Since bike is very old and had about 8 owners, I wonder weather it would be possible that the bike has had the gearbox replaced with one from a Maxim or such... is it compatible with that one?

If that is not the case, what could it be that prevents me from shifting into 6th. Right now when I'm in 5th and try to go higher it is hard and dead... the lever won't budge up at all.

Also, running at 100km/h I have about 7000 (a bit more) revs. Around 60km/h I have 4500 revs. Is this normal, or am I supposed to have a 6th gear?

I would like to take it on the freeway a little more, but 7000 revs for cruising speed seems high to me, and since I am due for a chain/sprocket change, I was considering getting a smaller rear sprocket.

Please advise... is the sprocket change a bad idea? Is my box in good health? Has my gearbox been replaced? Should I replace it with another used 6 gear one?

Thanks!

PS. Someone told me to open the gearbox and take a look, but I couldnt manage to open the screws and I figure I'd make a mess with all the oil leaking out. Does anyone know how much it would cost me for this surgery?

Also, could it be some external shift excursion thing that blocks my shift lever (like an end screw). I would of course prefer it to be an external issue so I could solve it myself

[kneedragger88]

(bike: yamaha xs400 seca 1982)
Hi,
The manual and the gearbox casing both state that my bike has 6 gears, yet... I only seem to have 5. Since bike is very old and had about 8 owners, I wonder weather it would be possible that the bike has had the gearbox replaced with one from a Maxim or such... is it compatible with that one?

If that is not the case, what could it be that prevents me from shifting into 6th. Right now when I'm in 5th and try to go higher it is hard and dead... the lever won't budge up at all.

Also, running at 100km/h I have about 7000 (a bit more) revs. Around 60km/h I have 4500 revs. Is this normal, or am I supposed to have a 6th gear?

I would like to take it on the freeway a little more, but 7000 revs for cruising speed seems high to me, and since I am due for a chain/sprocket change, I was considering getting a smaller rear sprocket.

Please advise... is the sprocket change a bad idea? Is my box in good health? Has my gearbox been replaced? Should I replace it with another used 6 gear one?

Thanks!

PS. Someone told me to open the gearbox and take a look, but I couldnt manage to open the screws and I figure I'd make a mess with all the oil leaking out. Does anyone know how much it would cost me for this surgery?

Also, could it be some external shift excursion thing that blocks my shift lever (like an end screw). I would of course prefer it to be an external issue so I could solve it myself

I doubt that its been changed. The likely culprit is a missing/bent/dislodged pin on the shift drum. The drum is turned using a fork and a series of pins/risers when you move the shifter it rotates the fork grabbing the next pin and in turn rotates the drum selecting the next gear.
If that is your problem you should be able to see it from the side cover. Cant remember if that model is behind the clutch basket or not. You may need to remove the basket to see it.
If thats not it then your splitting cases. If your paying someone to do that (even me) you will likely be cheaper to find another motor/gearbox as the labour will quickly outpace the bikes value.

[skip]

For what its worth I'll second kneedragger on this. i very much doubt that anyone would swap engines and as for a "shift excursion thing" if you can shift into one gear nothing like that is blocking you from going through the rest. I rebuilt an '81 a couple years back for fun. It will end up costing you more then the bike it worth to have somone split the cases. Howere if you want to learn about bikes and want to do it yourself the xs400's are a very straight forward design, and you really shouldn't have much an issue if you follow the manual and do it over the winter.

[Brian P]

A 400cc bike will normally have to rev somewhere near 6500 - 7000 rpm at 100 km/h in order to have enough power to push it through the air anyway.

For what the bike is worth, I say leave well enough alone. If 6th gear is broken ... it's now a 5-speed. If you want to drop highway revs a bit and you have to do chain/sprockets anyway, go with the smaller rear sprocket, but don't change it too much, maybe 2 or 3 teeth smaller.

[dori]

Thanks. Now one more thing: if it is the missing pin, wouldn't the lever go up but not pull the gear and thus not engage? My lever is completely blocked in the normal position when I try to move it up into 6th.

2 issues here: left side seems to have my clutch... do I open right or left? And will all my engine oil spill on the floor?

And yes, if it is an easy fix, I will fix it, otherwise I'll just forget it, but I can't seem to open either side (screws won't budge even with penetration oil). Any fancy tool that I could use for this (they take a philips screwdriver unfortunately)?

[kneedragger88]

Thanks. Now one more thing: if it is the missing pin, wouldn't the lever go up but not pull the gear and thus not engage? My lever is completely blocked in the normal position when I try to move it up into 6th.

2 issues here: left side seems to have my clutch... do I open right or left? And will all my engine oil spill on the floor?

And yes, if it is an easy fix, I will fix it, otherwise I'll just forget it, but I can't seem to open either side (screws won't budge even with penetration oil). Any fancy tool that I could use for this (they take a philips screwdriver unfortunately)?

The shift drum will be on the left side. Follow the shift shaft in.
If there is a pin "missing" the bigger issue is where did it go.
Yes oil will come out. You will need an impact driver to remove the screws. If you dont have one get one and if you intend on having someone else have a look do them a favour and leave it alone. Nothing worse than trying to romeve cover screws that are chewed to crap cause the wrench wasnt using the proper tools.

[skip]

Nothing worse than trying to romeve cover screws that are chewed to crap cause the wrench wasnt using the proper tools.

<shudder> too many images in my past or striped float bowl screws

[dori]

thanks. Yes, I'm not a mechanic but I get my share of chewed up screw heads in electronic/electrical parts. And yes, the impact driver tool looks quite very sweet. I am surprised I never knew such a thing existed And of course, having the right tools for the job makes the job a pleasure... and since I have fun doing it, I'd rather spend the money on tools then on mechanic labour (agreed?!).

You guys must have fun working on bikes, otherwise you wouldn't do it...

Also, should I get a fresh set of screws? The one that is on right now looks ok except for a bit of rust on some of them and slightly damaged heads... I worry about the next time someone might need to open it.

And common sense tells me I should drain the oil first (it is ok to reuse once I finish the job?). I only put 7-800km on this oil/filter.

And how many hours of work would splitting the crankcase be? Looks like something I'd have fun doing (although time is limited) if the outcome would be fixing it (I would go for a full overhaul of engine/transmission... as the bike is nice and in quite good condition.. I wanna keep it for years to come... and when it completely craps out on me, I want to turn it into an electric one.. hopefully by then supercapacitors will be viable and mainstream enough ).

[skip]

Personally, I started wrenching on bikes from rebuilding basket cases....and I still am more or less when I get time. Its a hobby and I enjoy it very much, and when I started track riding it became needed if I was actually able to afford to do it, but I'm not a mech like some of the guys here (a few are very good and cert mechs). Getting the right tools, and if you enjoy working with your hand its fun

If the screws are not badly damaged don't worry about replacing them. if they are replace them with either real bolts with heads, or cap screws if real bolts don't fit. It will make your life easier in the future.

As for oil, oil is relatively cheap. replace it. 10w40 motorcycle oil from cantire will run you less then $12. filter should be fine to reuse.

if you are splitting the cases yourself, its going to take a long time. Make it a winter project. Its really not that hard, but there are alot of little things to check and re-check, and clean, and replace. Thats why people are saying that if you get somone to do it it would cost more then the bike is worth, because of the labour time involved. if you split the cases make sure you have the manual to follow. might as well replace seals and check bearings while you are in there. Somthing I found helpful when I took my first engine apart....I took digi pics of everything, every step of the way. made trying to remember there "that one last bolt" was suppse to go.

[dori]

Thanks for the tip with the digi pics.

So pure work hours, would it be closer to 20 or to 50? Of course spread over a few weeks most likely as I might have to wait for parts to come in (I want to ride it through the winter, but when weather is terrible and lots of salt, I wont... I think that will give me at least 3 weeks haha.. I am optimistic ).

As for the oil, it was a lil more cuz I got synth (but people are telling me its a bad idea... particularly that its not motorcycle specific [next time I'll just have to check the label for additives]).

[skip]

20ish would be more then enough taking your time i would think. people love synth but eh, if you do regular oil changes i don't see much benifit for the street. just look for non-energy conserving. but that a completely different issue, and that horse has been beat into dust.

[dori]

impact driver... are we talking about one of those power impact drivers? Are they powerful enough (any particular power that I would need?)? They seem kind of expensive so I was hoping to get one of those that you hammer (but I can't seem to find any anywhere...). So where should I go to get the impact driver?

[Brian P]

No, that is an "impact gun". An "impact driver" is a thing that looks like a fat screwdriver, and you give the end of it a smack with a hammer, which simultaneously pushes the screwdriver tip into the screw while turning it to hopefully knock the screw loose.

[dori]

good cuz those powered ones are darn expensive. Now where can I get one? Canadian tire at Dundas and Bay didn't have em.

[skip]

Princess Auto carries them. Candiantire does carry them Product #58-9304-8 for $36.99. Give the part number to the monkies behind the counter and let them find a store with one in stock.

[dori]

only one store had it in stock out of mississauga and toronto stores (canadian tire) ... online search, and it was far. I found one at Lee Valley gardening/woodworking toolshop for 50 bucks, but it is better quality then the CT one (made in japan and looks like it could unbolt/unscrew tank armour and stuff ).

[djltoronto]

only one store had it in stock out of mississauga and toronto stores (canadian tire) ... online search, and it was far. I found one at Lee Valley gardening/woodworking toolshop for 50 bucks, but it is better quality then the CT one (made in japan and looks like it could unbolt/unscrew tank armour and stuff ).

Get one from princess auto... They always have many in stock. Different colours sizes and shapes.

Unless you have the money to burn, Sure the Lee valey version is probbaly better quality though.

[dori]

don't think I can return it now... how mucho for the princes auto one? Do I have money to burn... definitely not... gotta pay school haha, and thus far the co-op money went into the motorcycle and a few ancillary things like a laptop.