Trucks turning into other lanes

[slowbird]

To be quite honest about it, I have more trouble with passenger vehicle drivers who can't seem to turn into the proper lane. I expect it of trucks, because they generally don't have a choice. Not so much a Toyota Yaris.

I also have a HUUUUUGE problem with this.
But, short or becoming a LEO and handing out tickets, there is little I can do except honk angrily at the motorists that do this.

[Brian P]

If you are near a truck that's making a turn (doesn't matter left or right and doesn't matter which lane) STAY OUT OF THE LANE BESIDE IT while the truck is making that turn

It's that simple

A lot of those trucks have a sign on the back indicating that the truck makes wide turns. That's the implication of that sign ... STAY OUT OF THERE

For this one, I'm with turbodish ... If the truck is making a right in the lane one out from the curb lane then the truck driver not only has to be watching what is happening ahead but will also have to watch out for idiots squeezing between the trailer wheels and the curb.

If the truck is making a wide right and swinging into the other lane while doing so, and you're next to it in the lane to the left of it, 2 choices, either squirt ahead of the truck (only do this if you're starting out near the front of the truck, i.e. you are at the front of the line) or hold back while the truck does its turn.

It's not that hard ...

[EngineerJoe]

But what about the people who aren't as proficient?

They can go online and start a thread complaining about the physics of trucks turning instead of adjusting their driving style accordingly. They'll eventually learn.

The fact of the matter is the trucks block the right turn lane and prevent merging, and as such they are blocking traffic.
You can see the same at the Steeles/410 ramps.

Also when the light turns green and the trucks turns right from the right lane it blocks ALL right turning traffic.

It blocks two lanes, not all three. Vehicles in the middle right-turning lane won't be inconvenienced to go slightly wider

[Paul]

The signs are already on the back of transport trailers. Trucks make wide turns. The hope is that while they are making that wide turn, that some impatient driver or rider doesn't try to cut inside as the truck is making its turn because that space is needed by the trailers rear wheel sweep. This turn isn't really any different. By starting from the middle lane, the truck's trailer is still going to drag across the right lane as it follows the tractor can around, but the truck driver is no longer able to keep some control over that needed sweep space. I can see people's vehicles getting crushed by the trailer's wheels as the truck tries to make the turn.

By starting from the right lane, that possibility is minimized. The truck will still have to swing wide with the cab when making the turn, but the visibility for the truck driver is a lot better and the driver has more ability to control traffic to his left when doing so. The practice of swinging wide is also specifically permitted in the HTA.

This is wrong. If there is a centre lane to turn right...the truck turning right should always use that centre lane.

As he turns right...he should direct his tractor into the far left lane on Queen....so that his trailer follows in the centre lane....

This way..there is NO traffic for him to "control" and he is no where near the right lane allowing that traffic to flow smoothly.

[Baggsy]

The issue is that the middle of the trailer will apex the curve more narrowly than the cab. If he's in the middle lane this may mean that the inside lane width gets cut in half as he hits the middle of the turn. The other effect would be for him to be forced to the far outside lane to avoid cars turning at too high a speed in the inside lane to the middle lane.

Example here of an SUV that can't turn from right lane to right lane:
http://g.co/maps/233nv
Scroll the map forward and you'll see. I've almost hit dozens of oblivious people who can't make this turn.

[caboose483]

The issue is that the middle of the trailer will apex the curve more narrowly than the cab. If he's in the middle lane this may mean that the inside lane width gets cut in half as he hits the middle of the turn. The other effect would be for him to be forced to the far outside lane to avoid cars turning at too high a speed in the inside lane to the middle lane.

Example here of an SUV that can't turn from right lane to right lane:
http://g.co/maps/233nv
Scroll the map forward and you'll see. I've almost hit dozens of oblivious people who can't make this turn.

Then why do trucks make left turns from the RH left turn lane?

There needs to be room for the tractor to square off the corner in the LH right turn lane, thus keeping the trailer tandems out of RH right turn lane. At this intersection there is plenty of room. The tractor can use part of or all of the 3rd EB lane on Queens to keep the tandems in the 2nd EB lane. If the lane is marked properly the truck would have more than enough room to make the turn properly, from the center lane into the 2nd EB lane on Queens without cutting off any traffic in the RH right turn lane. If the truck is making that right turn from the RH lane it is impossible to complete that turn without using some of the 2nd EB lane on Queens and obstructing adjascent turning traffic.

If the driver doesnt make the turn properly they may very well force car traffic up onto the curb. However thats not much different than now when trucks are apparently pushing traffic on the outside of the corner.

[turbodish]

This is wrong. If there is a centre lane to turn right...the truck turning right should always use that centre lane.

As he turns right...he should direct his tractor into the far left lane on Queen....so that his trailer follows in the centre lane....

This way..there is NO traffic for him to "control" and he is no where near the right lane allowing that traffic to flow smoothly.

That dumps a slow transport truck into the middle lane of busy Queen Street, problematic in itself as far as traffic flow goes, and even more problematic when that transport now has to get back in the right lane to make the right turn onto West Drive's commercial/industrial area less than 500 meters down the street.

[Paul]

That dumps a slow transport truck into the middle lane of busy Queen Street, problematic in itself as far as traffic flow goes, and even more problematic when that transport now has to get back in the right lane to make the right turn onto West Drive's commercial/industrial area less than 500 meters down the street.

LOL...no..neither of those are problems. Drive one..you'll see.

[Rob MacLennan]

That dumps a slow transport truck into the middle lane of busy Queen Street, problematic in itself as far as traffic flow goes, and even more problematic when that transport now has to get back in the right lane to make the right turn onto West Drive's commercial/industrial area less than 500 meters down the street.

IF it needs to get back into the right lane. IF it isn't making the turn on a red, which wouldn't be possible if Queen is busy anyway. Queen is a 60 Kmh limit so, if the turn is made on a green, it's of little or no consequence.

[Paul]

IF it needs to get back into the right lane. IF it isn't making the turn on a red, which wouldn't be possible if Queen is busy anyway. Queen is a 60 Kmh limit so, if the turn is made on a green, it's of little or no consequence.

Not to mention...he's no slower than a truck going straight through the lights eastbound....

I don't think right turns should be allowed on a red from the middle lane IMO.

[slowbird]

I tried googling who controls the signing for something like this.

I know OPP has the juriadiction on the 410 as well as the on/off ramps. I don't know if that means its a provincial thing, or regional of Peel thing.

This is wrong. If there is a centre lane to turn right...the truck turning right should always use that centre lane.

As he turns right...he should direct his tractor into the far left lane on Queen....so that his trailer follows in the centre lane....

This way..there is NO traffic for him to "control" and he is no where near the right lane allowing that traffic to flow smoothly.

Bingo. Nail on the head.

[Rob MacLennan]

I tried googling who controls the signing for something like this.

I know OPP has the juriadiction on the 410 as well as the on/off ramps. I don't know if that means its a provincial thing, or regional of Peel thing.

Bingo. Nail on the head.

The signage is Provincial.

[imnothng]

I agree 100% with Turbo. The truck should be. The right hand lane at all times when possible, that is what they are doing. I do get what you guys are saying about the truck having to go into a "live" lane. But let's get real, how many Brampton drivers are going to let that truck move over into the right hand lane after he's completed his turn. I take this exit all the time and I use the middle lane 99% of the time to turn right. If I do it when there's a truck next to me, I turn Into the left most lane, otherwise I turn into the middle lane and honk at the idiot who just tried to turn into the middle lane from the right hand lane.

[Baggsy]

The very last place you'll catch me is trying to pass a turning truck on the inside.

No wonder the GTA is such a horrible place to drive.

Soon they'll have to make a law and put little stickers on the trucks like they have on the buses for you guys.
oh wait they all ready have stickers on the trucks, you just don't believe them.

Why not be courteous and wait the 5-10 seconds it takes the guy to get around the corner without everyone trying to cut around him, and then gun it by him when it's safe to do so?

[slowbird]

The signage is Provincial.

Thank you.

[caboose483]

The very last place you'll catch me is trying to pass a turning truck on the inside.

No wonder the GTA is such a horrible place to drive.

Soon they'll have to make a law and put little stickers on the trucks like they have on the buses for you guys.
oh wait they all ready have stickers on the trucks, you just don't believe them.

Why not be courteous and wait the 5-10 seconds it takes the guy to get around the corner without everyone trying to cut around him, and then gun it by him when it's safe to do so?

You didn't answer my question.

[casacrow]

I'm glad I stumbled on this thread. I have made that right turn a few hundred times in a tractor trailer. I used to always turn right, by travelling from center lane to center lane. Now I always turn right from the right lane to the right lane. I would love to explain myself!

I will mention that as much as my job involves me getting to places in as timely manner as possible, my biggest priority is the safety of those around me, as well as myself.

I have noticed that smaller vehicles tend to be in more of a hurry at this exit ramp/right turn than most in the GTA.

As I said, I used to always make that right hand turn, from center lane to center lane. I have seen some pretty crazy moves by vehicles there, and can remember three in particular.

I was in the center lane, intending on turning right, into the center lane. Traffic was slowing, as the light had just turned red. I had several vehicles in front of me, also stopping for the light. I had two cars, accelerate past me in the left lane, then had both cut in front of me, into my lane at the stop. I was running a heavy B-Train that day... I had enough room to stop, but was less than comfortable with the situation. The two cars made a right hand turn when the light turned green. I guess they really just didn't want to be behind me.

Another time I was approaching the same intersection. I was in the center lane, intending on turning right, into the center lane, and was coming to a stop. Traffic was real light. There were no vehicles in front. There was a car approaching the stoplight, in the left lane, coming up my left side. Just right before the lights(red at the time), the car cut in front of me, and shot straight across to the far right lane. I thought they were done....there was a pick up truck approaching the stoplight on my right in the right lane, and it almost hit the car. It was real damn close.

And the third thing has happened plenty of times. When turning right, from center lane to center lane, you will have to nose into the far left lane, to keep your trailer from entering the far right lane. This causes no problems with left lane eastbound traffic as there is none when making a right on a green light. But, what happens almost every time, when there is a lot of traffic, is that the cars in the far right lane will split and enter both the right lane and center lane. I don't know if it is a lack of patience, or the vehicles assuming that I will be turning from center lane to left lane, but it forces me to stay left and pull my trailer over to avoid contact with the vehicles. This forces me to make an illegal turn, to avoid those behind me making an illegal turn.



One day I saw a truck turning right, from the right lane to the right lane. I thought to myself what a stupid driver. He was driving the exact same model tractor as me, with a 53' trailer. I then saw him make the turn, without entering the center lane at all, and without his trailer cutting the inside. Damn, this guy actually knew what he was doing, and I was the stupid driver, turning from center!

I now always use the far right lane, for making right turns. I never have to enter the center lane, and there is plenty of room on that corner to allow for the trailer to stay on the road. One thing that I do notice though, is vehicles turning right, from center lane to center lane, often cut into my right lane when making the their turn. Instead of travelling in a nice constant radius, often they cut across at a 45 entering my right lane....just curious original poster..... did the truck actually enter your lane? It is possible you cut the corner and entered his lane? Was everyone in their correct lanes and things just seemed close? I don't doubt that a truck could have entered your lane, not all truck drivers make the best decisisions all the time.

I will continue to use the right lane for my right turns, I believe that intersection is built for those types of turns, and that it is the safest option

[DownUnder]

In Aus the trucks have signs reading "Do not overtake turning vehicle". That means on either side of it. Makes the trucks life a LOT easier and makes it safer for everyone around them. When learning to drive, instructors teach not to get near a truck once it indicates to turn at an intersection. The cops hand out hefty fines if you dont obey the signs too.

In the OPs intersection a truck in Australia can actually stop at the light straddling both the left AND right, right turn lanes (opposite side obviously but same scenario). No one would be able to pass him until hes completed his turn.

People complaining about this have never driven a tracktor trailer and just dont understand the turning radius. Also the roads arent marked very well so people turning dont know which lane they are in mid turn.

This is what I mean by lanes marked: @ turning lanes: First one is an intersection at Hwy14 and Warden




And here is a typical 2 turning lane intersection in Aus::





If you look closely you can see the turning lanes are marked the whole way through the intersection.

[Baggsy]

You didn't answer my question.

Your question was "Then why do trucks make left turns from the RH left turn lane?"

The answer is because the want to keep right except to pass.
The answer is so obvious that I thought it must be rhetorical. Isn't it issued in the Driver's manuals in Brampton?

And yes the drivers can turn from the right lane to the right lane depending on the truck length. Build a model and check like I did.

Getting back to the OP's original question, I think that he should try to be more patient, and wait for a clear opportunity to pass the truck on the straight.



http://www.flickr.com/photos/madison...n/photostream/

[caboose483]

Your question was "Then why do trucks make left turns from the RH left turn lane?"

The answer is because the want to keep right except to pass.
The answer is so obvious that I thought it must be rhetorical. Isn't it issued in the Driver's manuals in Brampton?

I disagree.

They make the turn in the RH left turn lane because it's impossible to make that turn from the LH lane without running over the median or swinging into the RH left turn lane and blocking other turning traffic. The tractor pulls straight into the intersection and squares off the corner to keep the trailer tandems from cutting into the LH left turn lane. Apply the same logic to RH turns.